RBP10 - Spanish Explorers - Team C Interest Thread

[jumbo2002]

I don't have much experience making dotmaps, but here's my shot:

This gives 10 cities on the main continent, with an 11th somewhere on the island with the white question mark. Unused tiles are the forest/grass in the NW (move light green dot N one square?), the mountain in the east, and a grassland coast in the SW. Would we want to move purple dot to the SE coast to fit another city in the southern grasslands?

Another potential issue is that yellow dot needs to have a border expansion before the cow is in range, but it seems like moving yellow S or SE uses the tiles less efficiently.

Of course, this whole dotmap could be .

 

[Despot]

I'm not a dotmap expert either and have to run so I will comment on it when I get back. Jumbo, you can skip me if you want since I won't be able to play today.

 

[jumbo2002]

Ok, I've got it and will play sometime today or tonight. It might be easiest if I now just become #2 in the roster and Despot #3.

 

[Despot]

Jumbo, sounds good to me. I will probably have some time tomorrow night anyways which would give it to Quokka in the morning on Monday...maybe better would be to put me after Quokka so he can get it in the Sunday morning his time and I can get it Sunday night.

So I propose:
1 - Falsfire
2 - Jumbo2002
3 - Quokka
4 - Despot

 

[jumbo2002]

Ponce DeLeon eh? I guess we are explorers!

There hasn't been any comment on my guess at a dotmap, so I'm going to work with that for now, focusing on those citysites that I have less concern about. In the end, I have less concern over yellow dot being where it is; moving closer to the cow will result in another wasted tile (hill) and more overlap with black dot.

Here we go! Feel free to stridently all

(0) 2900BC - It all looks good.

(1) 2850BC - Nothing.

(2) 2800BC - Adjusting sci to 40% retains Pottery in 2, and earns us 1gpt.

(3) 2750BC - Sci to 30%, lux to 30% to account for growth in Madrid.

(4) 2710BC - Pottery->Writing at 40%, as this is the fastest break-even rate we can manage. Madrid swapped to granary, due in 8.

(6) 2670BC - ...

(7) 2630BC - Swap a coast tile at Madrid to a mined grassland, that just finished its road (to maintain breakeven commerce.)

(8) 2590BC - ...

(9) 2550BC - Worker chop completes, granary due in 1. Lux to 50% to account for growth next turn.

(10) 2510BC - Madrid Granary->Settler. MM Madrid, Settler due in 5, growth in 5, 40% lux, breaking even.

(11) 2470BC - ...

(12) 2430BC - ...

(13) 2390BC - ...

(14) 2350BC - ...

(15) 2310BC - Madrid Settler->Settler. The warriors appear to be on barb prevention, but it would've been better to just move the warrior back to Madrid for MP; it would have helped our cash flow by keeping lux lower. If we could cover all our territory with warriors, however, I would've kept the warriors out on barb prevention. In any event, I move our warrior back now. Settler heads towards yellow dot.

(16) 2230BC - Move Settler SE. Lux to 50%.

(17) 2190BC - Found Barcelona, set to Warrior but will be able to be changed by the next leader. Move Warrior into Madrid. Lux to 30%. Can breathe a little easier on the treasury.

(18) 2150BC - ...

(19) 2110BC - Madrid Settler->Warrior. Barb horse appears. Move warriors to block. Lux to 10%.

(20) 2070BC - Barb horse runs away. Move warrior onto Settler to prevent a sneak barb attack.

The warrior/settler pair is intended to settle green dot. Both warrior builds are quite vetoable; in case, for example, you want another worker out of Madrid.

The Save

 

[Quokka]

I've got it. It'll be afew hours before I play, its Mothers Day here, so I'm doing a fancy breaky.

 

[falsfire]

Good turn, Jumbo. Just a couple points. One, a city doesn't riot the instant the population grows, but if the happiness isn't managed right after that. In other words, the game checks the happy/unhappy/content citizens in a city at the END of the turn, to determine if it riots next turn. So you didn't have to up the luxuries right away before it grew.
Second point is, we should probably keep Madrid on settlers. It's making 5 food & 5 shields per turn now, and to maintain the city's size, we need to make exactly 20 food for every 30 shields we produce. I haven't taken a detailed look at the tiles around the capitol just yet, but if we can somehow manage to maintain a 4 or 5 turns for every settler rate, we'll be "cookin' with gas" in terms of filling up our island quickly.

I know I depleted our treasury greatly on my turn by running a deficit due to the # of warriors & workers, but we do want to get to mapmaking quickly to get off this rather small island and make contacts. If we delay contact too much, we'll be terribly, woefully behind by the time we meet the rest of the world. For all we know, they could be happily living together on a super island right now.

But overall, good turn. Don't let up the pace on it, guys, remember: let's show those pesky team A and B players what its all about!

 

[jumbo2002]

to determine if it riots next turn. So you didn't have to up the luxuries right away before it grew.

For some reason, I always seem to get burned on this. I could've sworn that there have been times where I've had, say, a size 2 city: 1 natural content citizen, and 1 MP-suppressed citizen. Then, the turn the city grows, it riots. I always ended up getting burned by riots so often I increased lux tax before it grew. I must've been messing something else up, though.

In any event, it's that kind of that doesn't make a massive difference on Emperor and lower levels, but part of why I'm glad to be doing this kind of Diety game.

 

[Quokka]

I've had a quick look at the save and I'm glad we got an easy start for our first Deity SG

Here's what I would do with the dotmap.

The dots are placed the same as Jumbo's dotmap. The white crosses are the tiles unused under that map.

Changes and reason:
Orange dot:It'll be a nothing city, it would need to steal too much land from Barcelona to do anything. Moving it to the Forest NW of Madrid will put it on fresh water and us only 1 road away from Spices online. Later it can become a fishing village.

Lite Green dot: Grabs the extra mountain for the late game and gives Orange dot more room to fish. It will actually be closer for corruption calcs as well.

Black dot: Turns a desert into a 2 food tile and frees up a grassland.

Dark Green dot: Frees up a grassland and a Forest for a chop. Moves it in range of 2 more grasslands so it can be an advanced fishing village. There is also already a Red border across the channel so it'll remove some cultural pressure.

Pink dot: Moves out of Lite Greens way and closer to grasslands. It will be a half-city after Despotism.

Purple dot: Gives it more land to work. Closer for corruption calcs

Red and Blue dots are fine and the white dot is a maybe if there is land there.

What an ugly mess. I went through about a dozen tries and this one seemed the best, but I'll wait on some comments and have another look this arvo. We are going to have hardly any production capability. Madrid, Barcelona, Lt Green dot and Black dot, later maybe Purple and Red dots. Hope everyone likes fish.
Still have the same number of cities (10) and we only need 8 for the FP
FP in Barcelona?

 

[Quokka]

I went ahead and played my turns. I can't do too much damage in 10 turns anyway.


Inherited Turn
Change Madrid from Warrior to Settler and MM to get growth in 3 and Settler in 4
Set Sci to 10%. Even maxed out we can’t get below 40 turns, so lets earn some money in case the Romans come by soon.

I: Barbs are running around north of Madrid

2030 I’m going to change where the Settler is headed. Lt Green dot will not grow until irrigation is dragged out there. I’m going to move the Settler to the Forest NW of Madrid. I’m also going to bring the Workers up to connect the Spices and drag irrigation across to Lt Green dot.
I send the Warrior guarding the Settler back towards Madrid to clear the barbs to the north.

I: Barb Horseman attacks Warrior[4/4] and loses doing 3 damage

1990 Barcelona Warrior=>Temple
Warrior[3/3] attacks Barb Warrior[2/2] and wins taking no damage. Promotes

I: Barb Horseman attacks Warrior[4/4] and loses doing 1 damage

1950 Madrid grows to 5, Lux to 50%, Settler in 1

I: Barb Horseman attacks Warrior[3/4] and loses doing 1 damage

1910 Madrid Settler=>Worker. I’m going to send the Settler to Red dot to end the Barb threat from the north forever
Found Seville=>Warrior
Lux 10%

1870 …..

I: Barb Horseman attacks Warrior[4/4] and loses doing 1 damage

1830 Madrid Worker=>Settler
Warrior[3/3] attacks Barb Horseman[2/2] and wins taking no damage

I: Spices online

1790 Whip Temple in Barcelona. We need to get the Cows working for us.
Warrior[4/4] attacks Barb camp north of Madrid and wins taking 1 damage. 25g collected
Found Toledo=>Worker
Warrior[4/4] attacks Barb camp at Pink dot and wins taking 3 damage. 25g collected

1750 Barcelona Temple=>Warrior

I: Rome has built the Pyramids in Rome. Damn that’s fast.

1725 Seville Warrior=>Warrior. I’m going to send him to Lt Green dot as MP for the new Settler and as Barb watch until then

I: Persia builds the Oracle in Persepolis. That’s fast too

1700…..


Notes
The Settler can go to Lt Green dot(on my map where the reg Warrior is) the irrigation is in range now. After the Workers have hooked up that city they should head down and irrigate the Cows.
The Warrior north of Madrid could become MP there and drop Lux to 0%.
For Barcelona, another Warrior from there is needed for Barb watch. One perched on the mountains to the SE would stop any showing further north than the southern spice Forest. The healing Warrior can move south to help in this. Madrid will expand in 8 turns so no Warriors are needed on the eastern peninsula.
My thinking for Barcelona was to build a Warrior then another Worker perhaps and then speed the Granary with Forest chops ~ 30 turns. Then it could use the Barracks as a pre-build for the FP which it should start as soon as possible.
Build order for cities according to my map: Lt Green, Blue, Dk Green, Black, Purple, Pink
Rome is just across the channel so we have to be quick or they’ll dump a city down there.

Save

 

[Despot]

I got it...will try to play in the morning.

 

[Arathorn]

Jumob, one minor point that can save you a few turns in the early going. Growth is calculated before buildings complete, so Madrid grew, emptied its food box, then completed the granary. That cost 10 food. One of the very rare times it is worth slowing down growth is right before a granary finishes. Then, when growth happens the following turn, the granary is already built and saves you 10 food.

Fun to read the "competing" threads all.

Good luck and have fun,
Arathorn

 

[Quokka]

@Arathorn

Its very, very, very, very, very hard not to look at the other threads. It would be great if someone following all 3 threads could put up some minicomparisons. Something like the F11 & F8 screens at set times like 10AD, 500AD etc just to get an inkling of how we are doing compared to the others. No spoilers of course.

 

[Arathorn]

I don't think ANY comparisons can be made without giving away spoiler information. Now, it's not a competition SG like RBD23 was, but any information is potentially spoilerish. I would be extremely leery of posting comparisons.....

I remember well the lure of reading another team's game from RBD23, but I think you're best served by just playing your own game to the best of your ability and sorting it all out in the end.

MHO,
Arathorn

 

[Quokka]

Yes, the urge is bad especially when I log on and see a fresh post in one of the other games and not in ours. Thankfully SirJethroII is starting up tomorrow to divert my attention.

 

[Arathorn]

Darn double-posts and flaky connections....

Arathorn

 

[Despot]

(0) 1700 BC-
Everything looks good except I need to disturb the workers roading near Seville due to a barb warrior nearby. Don't want to attack it while it is in the forest with our lone warrior in Madrid.


(1) 1675 BC-
Madrid Settler->Settler

IBT-
Barcelona expands.

(2) 1650 BC-
3/3 Warrior takes out 2/2 Barb, but redlines in the process.
Place 2nd MP in Madrid. Lux down to 0%.

(3) 1625 BC-
Barcelona Warrior->Barracks

(4) 1600 BC/B]-
Seville Warrior->Granary

Santiago founded on Lt. Green dot.

(5) 1575 BC-
Nothing much.

(6) 1550 BC-
Nothing much.

IBT-
Romans land on dark green dot

(7) 1525 BC-
Madrid Settler->Settler
Toledo Warrior->Worker

We are severly behind in Tech...Bronze Working, The Wheel, Masonry, Writing, Myst, Warrior Code, and obviously Map Making.
They also have contact with the Vikings, Chinese, and English.

There is no possibility to buy us contact with other civs. Caesar, wants an arm and a leg for any tech so I don't think it is worth until we contact more civs.

IBT-
Buy The Wheel from the Vikes for WM and 96 GP.

(8) 1500 BC-
We have horses in our borders near Santiago!

Santiago Warrior->Barracks.

(9) 1475 BC-
Nothing much.


IBT-
Lugdunum founded two SW of dark green dot.

(10) 1450 BC-
Nothing much.

Well wasn't my greatest turns ever. There really wasn't much for me to do. The next leader can buy some more techs from the Romans or Vikes next turn. I'm thinking Bronze Working or Warrior Code as we will probably want to kick the Romans off of our tiny island. I think we should settle the remaining sites that we can settle. Finish our barracks hopefully pump out at least archers, preferably horses or swords. Raze the Roman city and put Dark Green and Black dot back there. It will probably take a few turns in the rotation to be able to do it, but this island is way too small to share.


Also regarding the dotmap. I think we can move the purple dot one SE of where it originally was (brings in the whale). Put a city where the white X is in between the pink and purple dots on the western part of the island and leave the pink dot where it originally was. There will be some overlap, but I think we will want to have a few more cities any ways to bring in some extra income during the early years.

There may very well be some weed so please do say so if there is.

The Save

 

[jumbo2002]

IBT-
Buy The Wheel from the Vikes for WM and 96 GP.

I don't know if this actually qualifies as "weed"...but I typically don't make trades during the interturn. Waiting for my own turn allows me to compare prices from different AIs, as well as see if any more AIs have made contact, driving down the price.

Exception: If I already have contact with one AI that knows my TM, and a new AI presents itself by asking for a TM for TM+GP trade, I'll almost always make that trade; otherwise, the other two AIs would just trade their WMs, and I'd lose whatever value my TM had.

Falsfire (up now)
Jumbo2002 (on deck)
Quokka
Despot

 

[Quokka]

I agree about the trades. This way we only got to sell the map once and not to everybody.

It sucksthe Romans are already on our island. At least we have cheap temples to apply cultural pressure and they didn't build on any of our planned city sites. It also bodes well for the future of Black or Dk Green dots.

Are we going to come to a concencus on the dotmap? Jumbo and I have put forth our ideas, I'd like to hear what falsfire and Despot have to say. Then we'll all be reading from the same book.

 

[Despot]

Sorry about the trade...I should have waited to my turn to make it. I could of simply paid gold for it and was actually comtemplating it. I actually wasn't going to make any trades and wait until we knew the other two civs at least. I wanted to see if we had any horses on our island. Vikes, seem to be cheaper that the Romans and we don't have contact with the Chinese or English, yet.

I agree with your dotmap Quokka except I would like the small change I posted on the western side of the island.