RBtS3 - The Uncultured One

[Qwack]

We're actually not limited to 4 National Wonders. Ironworks, Scotland Yard, Wall Street and West Point produce no culture. As for World Wonders, Three Gorges Dam, United Nations, Space Elevator, Pentagon and Kremlin are the same.

Ah, nice catches Ozbenno. I knew I would miss something. Seems that Ironworks, Wall Street and West Point could ben useful for this game.

Checking in...hmm, I am wondering if settling on the spot was a good idea considering we have a turn of forced anarchy? We really want to be far from the coast so that our capital's culture can enable more tiles for uncultured cities. We have both pre-reqs for Animal Husbandry, seems like a no brainer first tech choice. Should we start Worker first?

Now that I think about it, settling 1 NW on the plains hill would have made sense, but when I started the game all I was thinking about was founding the city and sending the save over to Sullla for the changes(He couldnt have made the changed until I founded). Didn't really think about whether we should move the settler .

Anyhow, now that Uberfish is onboard, we can get this game under way. Ill play these tonight after playing RBTS1's turnset.

 

[Qwack]

Alright.. Played 20.

Set research to Animal Husbandry and intial build on worker as suggested. Left the hut near capital unpopped as popping from culture gives a higher percentage for technologies. On turn 4, after some quick exploration, we find Hammurabi, our closest neighbor.

Not exactly good news. Hammurabi UU is the Bowman, which is an archer with +50% against melee units. Early rush on him is almost out of question. Too bad, because he was really close, and his capital looks rather tasty with that gold.

I brought our scout up to explore the north since it looks like jungle in the south, which we dont want to settle anyways. I would rather get a good idea of land around us instead of meeting the other civs really soon. Didn't have great luck with huts, as I got only 130 gold and 2 maps of ocean and crap territory from 4 huts . Ah well. Animal Husbandry researched on turn 12. We have 2 sources of horses nearby.

I set research to mining next. The pigs and grassland forests will boost our growth to size 5 very quickly, I would rather work those plains mines sooner instead of grassland farms anyways. Plus we may have copper in capital.

After worker was built, I decided to put some hammers into an Ikhanda while growing. I would say we should grow capital to size 2 or 3, and then pump out a settler from there before any warriors, and go after one of the horse sources for chariots. Here is the land around us..

We have the peninsula to the east all to ourselves. And here is a dotmap I made..

That is probably one of the ugliest dotmaps I have ever seen. I tried to get our second layer cities to steal some tiles from capital so they can work more than 8. I would say red dot should be our first city, as it gets horses, and great growth with the pigs. Its also towards the AI's. We should try to push out towards blue dot really fast and get that as our second city IMO. It can work the oasis, quickly grow to size 2, then work the gold mine + oasis and be a very very nice worker pump while helping our research.

Pink dot and green dot are interchangeable. Although I like pink dot more. It can steal 2 grasslands from our capitals border expansions, which is nice. It does get 1 less floodplain then green dot, but we can save those floodplains for sheep city above that. Yellow dot is a good production city, it gets hills deer, which is 3/1, that plus 3 grassland mines and it will have 11 base production at size 4. The rest of the territory is pretty disgusting, so ill let someone else draw a dotmap for that

In terms of research, ive put 1 turn into bronze working, but it might make sense to switch to wheel before that, so we can prebuild the road to our first city. There is 2 routes here in terms of our early plan I think. We can either keep researching BW here, and switch to slavery while settler is being built, and whip it out for some nice food to hammer conversion. Or we can switch over to wheel, prebuild roads to our second city. Build the settler the normal way. I like the wheel path, as it allows us to get some chariots out faster. In terms of when to start settler, I would say size 2. Work the silk forest and pigs until the river plains mine is done, then work that.

Darell can decide though. Darell, your up for 20!

Save:

 

[ThERat]

Hmm, archer +50% against melee will be harsh....

As for the dot map, i would actually settle red dot 1 tile south as the culture from our capital will grow bigger anyway and 1 south would increase land usage

 

[Qwack]

As for the dot map, i would actually settle red dot 1 tile south as the culture from our capital will grow bigger anyway and 1 south would increase land usage

Good point. The third layer of the capital will take care of the tiles we miss by doing that, so that probably sounds like a better idea. We might even get another resource down there if we are lucky.

 

[Ozbenno]

I like pink dot rather than green. Red dot 1 south makes sense (and agree it should be second city). We can make a go for Hammurabi with chariots/axes if he is the only early target.

 

[darrelljs]

Hmm...this game has already gotten interesting, with the dot mapping . I took a hand at it myself prior to looking at Qwack's, and not too surprisingly came up with something quite similar. I think red dot's location should be one south and that now seems to be consensus. The pink/green dot debate will laregly depend on what we see in the fog to the south. After BW comes in I plan on going for The Wheel next. I have a window to play in about two hours after which I would need a swap, so unfortunately I won't have much time for feedback.

Darrell

P.S. I'm thinking a Chariot rush against Hammurabi while plausible might not be the best plan. Despite the traits his flavor is pretty much the same as Hatty. With any luck he will build an early wonder or two for us and we can go after him with Swords/Cats. His UU makes an Axe rush really tough!

 

[Atlas]

OK, list of National Wonder and my thoughts on them

National Epic - In the capital to boost wonder GPs, or if we find a great GP

Maybe I missed something in the scenario rules, but I don't think you guys can build the National Epic- It requires a Library

Good Luck! But, Monarch? Too easy

 

[uberfish]

we should scout Babylon better, no point chariot rushing if Hammurabi's resources turn out to be all in 2nd ring.

agree with red dot 1s, and taking blue dot second (if not first)

 

[darrelljs]

Okay, stopped three turns early when the Settler completed. I swapped from an Ikhanda to a Warrior. I know we get those things half cost but the maintenance savings is in the mud and we'll need an escort for the Settler. I meander the Scout around to Babylon's backside (picking up Woodsman II along the way), he is in good scouting position. Over there he meets another AI:

Not my favorite opponent but at least he starts far away. The Worker mined the two plains hills then went to mine the grassland forest hill when Bronze Working came in (not sure if you counted it out Qwack but the timing was perfect so that he hit the tile when the tech came in). I strongly recommend we swap the build queue to a Worker to absorb the forest chop since we are Expansive. Research was set to The Wheel, due in four turns. The reason I stopped early was to agree on a dotmap, it is too important in this variant and we need everyone's input. Here is our land, I've drawn capital border pops (sorry for not reducing the size, but I think resolution is important here:

So here is what I am thinking, in order of settling:

Red dot - no brainer, we need Horse and getting a good food bonus is helpful. Bummer we don't have hills or easy irrigation.

Blue dot - I think this one is a better spot, we lose the Oasis but after Civil Service comes in we can chain irrigation down to it (or just slow grow it working cottages and work the Gold at size 6). I also think we we have a better shot of poaching this spot from Babylon.

Yellow dot - We are a ways away from our third border pop, at which point this city gets Rice and Wine, but while waiting we get Copper, two grassland Farms and a plains Mine.

After these three the locations I'd probably backfill pink and green dot. Cyan dot, blue dot and peach dot are just thoughts at this time, we need more info before really settling those site.

Darrell

P.S. I paid to keep the forest since those will be useful hammers soon enough:

 

[darrelljs]

Maybe I missed something in the scenario rules, but I don't think you guys can build the National Epic- It requires a Library

It would have to go in either the capital or the FP city...I'm thinking this is one we will make room for!

Good Luck! But, Monarch? Too easy

You know, I originally lobbied for Emperor, but after going through the dotmap exercise I'm glad we picked Monarch, especially with the map Qwack rolled! We lose 60% of the workable tiles in most cities and that is a pretty big handicap. Let's see how it goes, I'm curious myself .

Darrell

 

[sunrise089]

Maybe I missed something in the scenario rules, but I don't think you guys can build the National Epic- It requires a Library

Good Luck! But, Monarch? Too easy

That isn't how I read the rules. I think they can build cultural building in the two cities that will have culture anyways. Therefore, I agree (with this team of all-stars) that the game will probably be too easy. The main problem isn't going to be the 8 tile cities, but rather than lack of research IMHO, but allowing 2 good cities to work every tile and have at least a library, university, and eventually observatory and laboratory mitigates that problem a lot. I think you should have played on Emperor, or you should not allow any city, even the capital, to build any buildings that make culture at all.

PS - Move to DC yet Atlas?

EDIT: Crosspost

 

[Qwack]

Nice turns Darell. Although I still prefer my own blue dot. Reason is because at size two it can work oasis + gold mine for around 11 commerce, and build workers every 12 turns, which is what we should use that city for only until later on. Then after that, we can do another city eventually 1 SE of your blue dot, which will be pure commerce with 8 grassland tiles.

I also think we should go after it blue dot very soon if possible, before hammurabi can place a city anywhere near there. I like your pink/yellow and green dot locations though. Maybe we should put yellow 1 NE, but other than that nice dotmap.

 

[blid]

If we're going to settle red dot first, I think blue dot best spot would depend on where Hamurabi settles. My reasoning is that we should settle in positions where an AI city would touch us with it's 3rd or 4th expansion. This way, there won't be room for another AI city between us and we won't be overwhelmed in foreign culture early on. I'm afraid we won't be able to even keep our 8 tiles for us. Even a monument would be enough to steal our tiles

We need space to breath early on. After that, it would probably be AI neighbours cleaning all the time

 

[Ozbenno]

Got it for over the weekend.

 

[uberfish]

Darrell, you concentric city rings are centred on that lake rather than our actual capital.

This is some sort of sick joke, the resource clumps near the 2 rice have their city sites blocked by mountains...

 

[Atlas]

Sorry for spamming the thread

Maybe I missed something in the scenario rules, but I don't think you guys can build the National Epic- It requires a Library

Ah,

I read the rules as "only the buildings the capital and fp may produce culture" not as the 2 cities with those buildings can build whatever they want.

 

[darrelljs]

Darrell, you concentric city rings are centred on that lake rather than our actual capital.

What, we don't plan on moving the Palace to Laketown later in the game ? Hopefully Ozbenno checks the form before playing his turnset, although it probably won't affect him too much.

Actually, maybe we should avoid building culture generating buildings in the capital for a little while longer, just in case something makes us want to move it. Reading the letter of the rules, we could probably use Palace movements to get that first border pop in most cities, although that is obviously against the spirit of the game.

This is some sort of sick joke, the resource clumps near the 2 rice have their city sites blocked by mountains...

Yeah, sucks doesn't it? I'm holding out hope some miracle tile configuration to the south will make that peak less spiteful .

Darrell

 

[Ozbenno]

First call of the set was to decide what to research after Wheel. Pottery, Iron Working, Masonry and Archery all get considered but Pottery gets the call as granaries will be good soonish.

Second city founded in red dot #2 location.



We've got all the good AI in this game.



Didn't see where he came from though, hopefully a long way away.

As ICS is the name of the game, setler in Ulundi is queued after warrior for sentry.

I find Monty, not a long way away.

I stop one turn early as we've a couple of decisions to make.

What to research after Pottery? I selected Iron Working (22 turns) but no beakers invested. Masonry, Archery and Fishing could be alternate plans.

Also, second settler is due in 1 turn from Ulundi. Where to put him? East of Ulundi for horses/floodplain (pink dot) or west for copper/wine (yellow dot although I think 1NE is better).

There is also a spot NE of Ulundi that will grab corn/sheep/deer and 2 floodplains. Might be a FP/NE candidate.

I tend to favour grabbing some copper now and Iron Working (with a capital that crappy must have iron in BFC).



http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/88650/The_Uncultured_One_BC-2040.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[ThERat]

I would go for yellow dot next grabbing copper. IW sounds pretty good to me as well. We need swords to be able to do anything here against those enemies.

I would build another worker as well.

Got it, but will wait for more input whether those choices Ozbenno and me agree is fine with the rest

 

[uberfish]

Usually I'd prefer to take the gold for happiness, but the possible gold sites are weak in this variant so yeah, go ahead and take the copper first. IW looks good.