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Realism Invictus

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by Walter Hawkwood, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

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    Seville, Spain
    Again problems with the SVN... anyone unable to download it too?
     
  2. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Seville, Spain
    I have a CTD with no explanation at the end of this turn, doesn't matter what I do before... Savegame attached. Simply press "end turn" and....:mad: I'm playing SVN 5156
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
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    Uploading at least works fine on my side. Perhaps the problems are gone already.

    Thanks, reported this one.
     
  4. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
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    Seville, Spain
    Yes, it seems to be right again :thumbsup:
     
  5. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

    Joined:
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    Though of course it's not mandatory I'll thank you very much if you let me know when the cause for this strange CTD in so early game is found, and if it is possible which was it. I'm just curious why :smoke: I was frustrated by not to be able to play just more than few turns :D
     
  6. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

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    It is found, just not fixed. It seems to have something to do with latest K-mod merge and occurs almost solely on World Maps (maybe something to do with the number of civs). You can actually continue an ongoing game if you update your CvGameCoreDLL.dll specifically to 5143 revision (while keeping everything else at the rev you're playing).
     
  7. SR-71

    SR-71 Terminator T850 model 101

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    Thanks a lot! I'll do that
     
  8. Civilai Khan

    Civilai Khan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Japan
    To Walter Hawkwood

    Thank for your reply!
    I understand your thinking.
    (At his last time Friedrich Der Grosse said that my funeral must not related with christian Church)
    Prussian Cavalry is not strong, but Prussian Infantry is strong.
    Why not there is a bad penalty for Cavalry ?
    Friedrich Der Grosse is popular konig In Japan because Meiji Government studied Prussian Government System for example Prussian camaralism.
    (And GustavⅡAdolf is popular king because of SaGa Frontia2)
    Many Japanese respect him but hate adolf.(I am not Aryan,maybe you are not too,if not you are volga German,but Walter is the one of Popular German Name)
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki's Atomic bombs are because of Adolf's Explusion Dr.Einstein.
    (I think Japan at WW2 was not good state, but atomic bombs are against Humanism. Two Anti Humanism Atomic bombs were born from Nati's Anti Humanism)
    And Hideki Tojo hated Nati.(I don't like Tojo and I very very hate Adolf)
    So many Japanese think Prussia and German is not Same State.
    Der Grosse hate German Literature like Niebelungen, he liked French. (and he dislike German food, he liked Italian food)
    At 1848,Prussian Konig killed the German people who joined into revoluiton but Prusiaan People didn't joined into.
    After about 100years they make Nati.

    I can't play Europe E&N expanded and Eurasia Scenarios.
    And Deluge Fire&Sword Scenario has German & Preussen.
    But Europa RI4 has ONLY Preussen but Flag is German.

    I can't complete Habor Master event.
    Because there is No caravel in this MOD.

    And I think some pegan temple like hof should add bless promotion for unit.

    Japanese Jukihei is Teppoukiba (鉄砲騎馬).
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/竜騎兵
    >日本で竜騎兵に近い存在として、伊達政宗大坂の陣で使用したとされる騎馬鉄砲隊が挙げられる。
    Not jyukihei(銃騎兵) but teppoukiba (鉄砲騎馬 ).
    重騎兵 (Heavy Cavalry) and 銃騎兵 (Gun Cavalry) are same pronunciation, JyuKiHei !
    This is Date Flag.
    http://www2.harimaya.com/date/dt_gunki.html
    Teppoukiba may have this flag.

    Jomon People didn't have silk, so JomonArcher's Picture is Very Bad.
    (And Ordin Statue Picuture is wrong!)
    And Some people say that the First Japanese HorseArchers are 蝦夷 (Northen Japanese People).
    Some of 蝦夷(Emishi) joined into Yamato and they worked at Yamato Army.
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/蝦夷
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/武士#「職能」武士の起源
    And Japanese people did not often use Hankyu (Small Bow).
    Use usually Wakyu (Huge bow)
    Kofun Era is before Heian Era.
    And Kofun Heavy Rider souhld be called Rituryo-Gundan(not Gundam hahaha) or Heiam Heavy Rider.
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/軍団_(古代日本)

    Why Wako's Sword is China's Sword?
    My Ancestor(Wako)'s sword is Japanese sword.

    And Fusilier is not Bakumatsu Infantry.
    Bakumatstu Infantry had many type of Rifles.
    Kisyu Infantry had Prussian Dreyse Rifle.
    Satuma Infantry had Snider Rifle.
    The Best Famous Infantry is Tyoshu Infantry.
    They Called them Kiheitai (奇兵隊)!
    They have foreign Firearms and foreign tactics.
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/奇兵隊
    And This is First Japanese Rifle.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murata_rifle

    Maby Samurai-Zutsu is mutch for Fusilier.
    Samurai-Zutsu is high class Samurai with musket gun.
    Famous for Shimazu Samurai-Zutsu.

    Japanese Famous Generals

    Heian Era 平安時代
    Sakanoue-Tamuramaro 坂上田村麻呂
    Aterui 阿弖流為
    Minamoto-Yoshiie 源義家
    Takahashi-Sumitomo 高橋純友 (first marine)
    Taira-Masakado 平将門
    Fujiwara-Takaie 藤原隆家

    Genpei Era 源平時代
    Minamoto-Yositune 源義経 (not Yoritomo. Yoritomo is not Famous for General but Politician) 
    Minamoto-Yoshinaka 源義仲
    Tomoe-Gozen 巴御前 (She is the famous Women General.)
    Taira-Kagekiyo 平景清
    Taira-Noritune 平教経

    Kamakura Era 鎌倉時代
    Hojo-Tokimune 北条時宗

    Nanbokutyou Era 南北朝時代
    Kusunoki-Masasige 楠木正成 (He is the best famous Genaral in Japanese History)

    Sengoku Era 戦国時代
    Shimazu-4brothers. 島津四兄弟
    Sanada-Yukimura 真田幸村(He is very very famous for strongest Genaral at Sengoku Era)
    Tukahara-Bokuden 塚原卜伝
    Ashikaga-Yositeru 足利義輝
    Kamiizumi-Nobutuna 上泉信綱
    Miyamoto-Musasi 宮本武蔵(Not general But strongest soldier)
    Takeda-Shingen 武田信玄(Famous for 風林火山 and gay)
    And ManyManyManyMany

    Bakumatu 幕末
    Takasugi-shinsaku 高杉晋作
    (動けば雷のごとし、発すれば風雨のごとし。Move like thunder ,Attack like Tyfoon)
    Omura-Masujiro 大村益次郎 He made canon theory.
    Saigou-takamori 西郷隆盛
    Hijikata-Toshizou 土方歳三 (But he is popular for Police not General)

    Meiji Era 明治時代
    Akiyama-Yoshifuru 秋山好古 (God of Cavalry)
    Akashi-Motojiro 明石元二郎 (Great Spy)

    Pacific War 太平洋戦争
    Kuribayasi-Tadamichi 栗林忠道(Battle of Iojima)
    Tojo-Hideki is not famous for general but politician.
    Kato-Tateo 加藤建夫 加藤隼戦闘隊
    Jobo-Ryotaro 上坊良太郎 Figheter Ace
    Hinoki-Yohei 檜與平 Fighter Ace and Movie Screenwriter
    Minobe-Tadasi 美濃部正 芙蓉部隊
    Okuyama-Michiro 奥山道郎 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giretsu_Kuteitai

    I don't know Kono Okiko & Shiba Yoshikazu.
    Who is these Generals?

    Real Viking Armed Men is This.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midvinterblot
    They didn't have Celtic Helmet.
    And Their Horseman using throwing javelin.(Like Gungnir hahaha)
    So their horseman should be Ranged Rider.
    Or Bonus Unit for Odin Statue.

    And in fact Samurai is not relatied feudal aristcracy.
    Man at Arm called Samurai before Edo Era.
    Like Viking not like European Knight.
    And Samurai not often use naginata but often use pike. 

    Tokugawa Ieyasu may not be financial but agrarian.
    Hideyoshi may be Seafarer and Inperialistic.

    And In Japan,Tuna is cheaper meaning of Maguro.
    Shushi is the best for Tukiji resource.
    Kensei looks like Chinese style now, should be Color Changed Samurai.
    (but Sword Blade should not be downer, but upper )
    And There should be Japanese multi role fighter F-2.

    AI often cut Timber Pirme Forest,I want forest Planting Method or make Prime Tinber Forest not to be cut.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  9. arythm1a

    arythm1a Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    38
    Hello! Thanks for finally adding the wonderful Terra map script, i love those colonial rushes! Unfortunately, the Terra script on Giant size seems to be bugged. On this size the map has literally 0 water tiles. I have tried it on other scripts on giant size, and huge, standard and small Terra work just fine. Could you check that out?

    Shimi
     
  10. Goetz53

    Goetz53 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    France
    Hi,
    After your message I tryed the terra map script on giant as well and it worked fine for me ... two landmasses avec lots of ocean between. I play svn version 5160 and have win 8.1 with 16gb RAM installed..
     
  11. arythm1a

    arythm1a Chieftain

    Joined:
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    That is very strange. I am playing on the 3.4, completely fresh install, and no others maps are behaving weirdly.
     
  12. Goetz53

    Goetz53 Chieftain

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    Location:
    France
    That makes sense. Walter fixed the giant map size for the terra script in svn version 5133 directly after the release of the official 3.4 version. I propose you install a svn manager like 'tortoiseSVN' and download the latest svn version. I pack the Art files (without the movies) in a fpk using pakBuild.exe file what reduces the startup time of the game a lot (don't forget to check 'store full paths' in pakBuild).
     
  13. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
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    3,333
    Location:
    London, UK
    German cavalry of this era has the same stats as default one - which means it is unremarkable and worse than many others, that have various bonuses.

    Scenarios not specifically made for RI can't be played in RI. And I checked RI Europe again, there are both German civ (led by Otto) and Prussian civ (led by Frederick).

    I've been trying to fix this one for a long time.

    Nope. The promo is specifically reserved for wonders.

    Did Japan actually field any cuirassier-like units? Sorry, I don't read Japanese and I don't trust Google Translate when researching stuff, so you have to help me out here. I'm currently consciously using a more generic name because I believe Japan didn't field any real cuirassiers.

    Yeah, the button is a leftover from a much earlier time and a different unit. Will try to change.

    This is specifically a Kofun-era cavalry unit, not a later Heian unit. It is based on this illustration:
    Spoiler early Kofun era :
    db1fd76cbd43579c83a45a02340c7c45(1).jpg


    It is from a very nice book on early Japanese armies that I based most of early Japanese roster in RI on.

    Yeah, this one was based on Chinese impression of Wako long time ago. I think I should remake it.

    For riflemen I can already use early Meiji-era units. Tanegashima-armed infantry is too early to be considered fusiliers. The problem with Japan is that it mostly skipped the stage of military development that fusilier unit represents in-game. Bakumatsu-era infantry, though mostly armed with rifles, is the closest one gets to this. Also, Bakumatsu-era armies were very uneven in training and equipment. The Boshin War wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boshin_War) mentions that most Shogunate troops at the time used smoothbore guns (of German manufacture) still; only some of the more elite troops used imported rifles at the time. And Murata rifle is very definitely a product of Meiji era already.

    I'll see if I can add some of those.

    Neither do I. They are not in RI great people lists. Could it be you just ran out of general names and those are randomly generated people?

    You do realize that this is a very late artistic depiction, right? Scandinavian units used at the moment are quite historically accurate; you are making a bit of a mistake thinking all of them should be vikings though - viking era is just one time period, and we also use units that are earlier and later than that. It would be like limiting pre-gunpowder unit roster of Japan to only Sengoku period, as that is the best known (though I have to admit most other mods I know do exactly that to Japanese units :lol:; I had to make most early Japanese units myself for RI).

    Unfortunately this is a question of animations available. There are no mounted javelin throwers in Civ 4, and nobody made custom anims for them. That would be useful for many civs actually!

    Yeah, I know that, but this is more or less a limitation of our unit tree structure. I had to use units that conform to existing upgrade tree, while trying to reflect the actual variety of units and weapons that were used. Sometimes it's not the best possible fit.

    On Tokugawa, this is debatable, but ultimately futile; one can go with many different traits for him. He got financial because no other Japanese leader had financial, while one more had agrarian.

    Hideyoshi is anything BUT seafaring, he lost his Korean campaign 100% at sea. If there was a drawback associated with sea, he'd get one.

    Well, RI is in English language, and the main thing sold in Tsukiji is tuna - like, tuna in general, not as in all those different variations you have. And if you have noticed, I'm already using a sushi as its depiction.

    I don't understand the "upper" and "downer" parts...

    Yeah, I should definitely add this.

    That's not an issue. The resource still stays there if you cut the forest.

    Yeah, as indicated above, I found and fixed this issue soon after 3.4 release. It actually happens for many other scripts too when selecting Giant. Either download SVN, or don't select this particular map size.
     
  14. arythm1a

    arythm1a Chieftain

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    Im sorry, this is new to me, and i do not understand what you say starting with "I pack the Art files..."
    Is the startup time for SVN much slower than normal? what is a fpk? what is pakBuild?
     
  15. Civilai Khan

    Civilai Khan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Japan
    Thanks for your Reply.

    >That's not an issue. The resource still stays there if you cut the forest.

    They cut Forest on Timber Prime and Lose 1 Hammer !(AI is not Clever)
    They want to cut forest on timber prime tile beside in city 20 tile. (I see Korean leader Seojong do it. They lose Forest Hammer bonus)
    I want to change Prime Timber tile have no forest and +1Hammer and there is only Prime Timber and No tech need find Prime timber.

    >Did Japan actually field any cuirassier-like units? Sorry, I don't read Japanese and I don't trust Google Translate when researching stuff, so you have to help me out here. I'm currently consciously using a more generic name because I believe Japan didn't field any real cuirassiers.

    I don't have any photo or book about Japanese cuirassiers written by English but in Japan his cuirassiers are famous called Teppou-Kiba or kiba-Teppoutai about AD1600.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_Masamune
    I will find evidence which you can read.(There are Japanese Date cuirassiers in Koei Strategy Game [Nobunaga's Ambition]. Do you know this game?)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobunaga's_Ambition
    And Sengoku MOD for Civ4 have this unit or not.

    >Neither do I. They are not in RI great people lists. Could it be you just ran out of general names and those are randomly generated people?
    Yes, maybe they are Random Name.

    >Hideyoshi is anything BUT seafaring, he lost his Korean campaign 100% at sea. If there was a drawback associated with sea, he'd get one.
    I do not know 100% lose.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chilcheollyang
    I know that cheaper ship was often destroyed,and it is critical problem.
    Many Japanese ship was made for transport Army not for combat.
    Many Japanese Ships did'nt have cannon,Only have large size masket.
    Japanese Ship was more number,but cheaper.
    And tactical lose are many, but strategic lose are not many.
    I don't think his Navy was strong but he wanted to trade with Portuguese and Spain unlike Ieyasu.
    His Navy is not Navy but like Marine.

    Hideyoshi want to hold Nanban Trade beside Christian missionary was killed by him.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanban_trade
    Against for Hideyoshi,Tokugawa want not to hold nanban Trade (but he like to kill missionary) and he didn't want to dominate all Gold and Silver Mine want to Land for Farming by gathering tax.
    Hideyoshi wanted to dominate all gold&silver mine.
    Tokugawa like to gathering tax from farming, not by trading or commerce movement.
    So he wanted to make many people to be farmer,unlike Nobunaga and Hideyoshi.
    He made nomadic people who were like free commoner to be peasant under serfdom.(so many people today hate him)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_occupations
    Nobunaga or Hideyoshi may be financial.
    (Rakuichi-Rakuza)
    Tokugawa didn't trade with Portuguese and Spain, so he didn't need much gold or silver.

    Before Edo Era, there are many nomadic people, wako was one example.
    And Kusunoki Masashige is the famous Hero of Nomadic people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusunoki_Masashige
    And Province where Meiji revolution hero was born is where there were many nomadic people.

    >This is specifically a Kofun-era cavalry unit, not a later Heian unit. It is based on this illustration:
    Nice Book. What is this book ?
    Jomon means some of pot type.
    (Two Pre Jomon Era was called Kyu-Sekki Era and Kaimon Era)
    Yayoi means agriculture and farming.
    Kofun means some of tomb type.
    Heian means peace, but real Heian Era is far from peace.
    Kofun Era is before Heian Era.
    In RI, We can make Heian Horse Archer 1st and Kofun heavy Rider 2nd, it is not natural.
    (and In Heian Era ,Heavy Horseman ware more heavy than Kofun)
    Emishi (Northan Japanese People) dosen't mean Era means province.
    So Heian Rider will be Change name to Emishi Rider, or Japanese Horse Archer.
    (and real Heian horse archer is like Yabusame of RI,Heian horse archer of Ri is pre Heian horse archer)
    I think changing name Heian Horse Archer or Kofun rider's Model&name Change to O-Yoroi horseman may be better.
    Kofun Armor is Lamellar armour and O-yoroi is too,so these have technical continuity.

    And Nara Spear Man has same problem.
    Yayoi Era is before Nara Era ,but we can make Nara spearman before yayoi Axeman.
    Iron Spear called 「鉄矛」(てつほこ)tetsuhoko.
    So nara spear man may change to tetsuhoko-hei.
    But spear is main weapon in Nara Era.
    I think you know 天武天皇.
    He is the king who is good at fighting with tetsuhoko.
    And Axe is not main-weapon in Yayoi-Era.
    Long-swords and Spears are Main weapon in Yayoi-Era.
    And Japanese Horseman not often use spear.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inariyama_Sword

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/江田船山古墳#鉄刀銘文
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/短甲
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/挂甲
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/衝角付冑
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/眉庇付冑
    (Japanese Article but photo is very important.)

    After Yayoi Era, Short bow was not used in Japan.
    Only Early Jomon Era, Short Bow was used.
    But,some resercher say that Short Bow was rare in Jomon Era, Long Japanese Bow was main bow in Jomon Era.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi

    I think this picture effectted by this.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haniwa
    This is like Chinese Armor, not like Japanese O-Yoroi(Horseman Armor)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ō-yoroi
    O-yoroi is Armor in Later Heian Era and made for hoserman and very expensive.
    Do-Maru is Armor In Kamakura Era and made for horseman and foot soldier.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dō-maru
    And do you know Izumo Iron and Mimana Iron ?
    Yamato got Iron from south Korean mountain by trading, but after find Iron in Izumo, they didn't import Iron from South Korea.
    In Kofun Era Yamato import Iron ,but in Nara and Heian Era, they did'nt.
    But,Yamato only Imported Iron Plate from Korea, not import Armor in Kofun Era.
    In Yayoi Era, they import copper from China and export Copper accessory.

    >Well, RI is in English language, and the main thing sold in Tsukiji is tuna - like, tuna in general, not as in all those different variations you have. And if you have noticed, I'm already using a sushi as its depiction.
    Tuna is called for not Maguro in Japan, but called for canned maguro, and I feel it is cheap.
    Can you tuna in RI call Maguro or Hon-Maguro?
    Maguro has expensive meaning, and Hon-Maguro has more expensive meaning.
    And in Tukiji Market, many fishes are expensive.

    >Unfortunately this is a question of animations available. There are no mounted javelin throwers in Civ 4, and nobody made custom anims for them. That would be useful for many civs actually!
    I know Alexander has javelin thrower horseman.(But I don't know japanese javelin)
    This is civ animation Problem.

    >You do realize that this is a very late artistic depiction, right? Scandinavian units used at the moment are quite historically accurate; you are making a bit of a mistake thinking all of them should be vikings though - viking era is just one time period, and we also use units that are earlier and later than that. It would be like limiting pre-gunpowder unit roster of Japan to only Sengoku period, as that is the best known (though I have to admit most other mods I know do exactly that to Japanese units :lol:; I had to make most early Japanese units myself for RI).

    In XML,they called viking,but it it mistake that I called scandinavian civ for viking.(and because of my cheaper English, I could not tell you my thinking)
    I was talking about Berserker.
    I don't know Scandinavian Viking used horn helmet.
    I know that helmet like mongolian horsman they used.
    Scandinavian units used at the moment are quite historically accurate, this is true.
    But why their UniquUnit berserk is vanilla berserker model?
    I know vanilla berserker is not accurate .
    Problem about not your picture or modeling, but using vanilla berserker model.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserk_(manga)
    This is one of famous berserker in Japan, but origined from Gottfried von Berlichingen = not Scandinavian but German.

    I know how do you gather knowledge about foreign country.
    I am excited that foreigner knows Kofun Era.

    And Japanese Pyramid may be this.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisen_Kofun

    And if you want to know old history, you should read this book.
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izumo_Fudoki
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fudoki
    Many reseracher say that Kojiki is too political to write histrical fact and Nihon-Shoki is more.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kojiki
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihon_Shoki
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  16. Civilai Khan

    Civilai Khan Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Japan
    About Bakumatsu Rifle

    >For riflemen I can already use early Meiji-era units. Tanegashima-armed infantry is too early to be considered fusiliers. The problem with Japan is that it mostly skipped the stage of military development that fusilier unit represents in-game. Bakumatsu-era infantry, though mostly armed with rifles, is the closest one gets to this. Also, Bakumatsu-era armies were very uneven in training and equipment. The Boshin War wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boshin_War) mentions that most Shogunate troops at the time used smoothbore guns (of German manufacture) still; only some of the more elite troops used imported rifles at the time. And Murata rifle is very definitely a product of Meiji era already.

    I think why German's guns are smoothbore?
    I know Gewehr is not smoothbore but rifle.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr
    And Many Muskets used Shogunate were made in Japan.
    Nobunaga is the 1st Daimyo successing musket massproduction at Sakai before 1575.
    (This is knwon by Prime school students.English wikipedia is truly accurate? England made famous king myth from almost nothing.)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nagashino
    Nobunaga used tanegashima musket at this battle.
    The number would be 3000~10000.

    Shogunate Troop was weaker than Chosyu and Satsuma Army, and they were laughed by all Japan.
    (The reason is Shogunate dominant system was Confusianism. Many Japanese hate confusianism, but Tokugawa Tunayoshi like this system, and he started governed by this.And after Tsunayoshi, many Shogun governed by this.
    So many people hate Tokugawa Shogunate. Soldier hate their government, Army is weak.)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Tsunayoshi
    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forty-seven_Ronin
    Many people want to save 47 Ronin's life.
    But,Tunayoshi killed 47 Ronin with Confusianism theory,so almost all Japanese in Edo-Era hated him.
    And He was gay, so he couldn't make next 6th Shogun.
    6th Shogun is not Tunayoshi's son.

    Fukuzawa Yukichi critisized Shogunate Confusianism system.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukuzawa_Yukichi
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10,000_yen_note

    Edo people liked Mitsukuni.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Mitsukuni
    Mitsukuni is a Daimyo who hated Tunayosi.
    Mito-Komon, is a famous Drama.
    This drama is about Mitsukuni.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mito_Kōmon

    Chosyu and Saga has 1st trained Army by Europian Tactics and Chosyu win Shougunate, this is Meiji Revolution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiheitai

    Glover sell English Rifle to Chosyu and Satsuma and Tosa.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Blake_Glover
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaientai

    Many Rifles were imported by Kaientai.
    And Some Rifle made in Saga.

    Nabeshima made copy English Rifles and English cannon at Bakumatsu-Era.
    This is Frist Japanese success Rifle.
    And Satsuma made prototype but they couldn't have much number.

    They copied Enfield Rifle, but they had a few Snider Rifle.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1853_Enfield
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snider–Enfield
    >A Snider rifle used in Japan during the Boshin war (1868–69).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabeshima_Naomasa
    (But not written His rifle In English)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanaka_Hisashige
    >He was involved in the construction of a reverberatory furnace in Saga for the production of Armstrong guns. In 1864, he returned to his native Kurume Domain, where he assisted in the development of modern weaponry.

    Bakumatsu Japan could make Rifled cannon.
    Why they import muskets ?
    Maybe they would import muscat.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscat_(grape)

    Kisyu has Drize Rifle.
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/カール・ケッペン
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Köppen
    3rd Karl.
    (Can't find English article)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyse_needle_gun
    >Sometime in the late 1860s, Japan acquired an unknown number of Model 1862 rifles and bayonets. These were marked with the imperial chrysanthemum stamp.
    Chrysanthemum Stamp are not often used Tokugawa Shogunate, So this was maybe used by shisi.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishi_(organization)

    Shogunate Elite Troop's rifle might be Chassepot.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chanoine
    I read japanese article that Shogunate soldier said that Chassepot rifle was broken fast.
    Do you know Last Samurai Movie ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Brunet
    He is the Last Samurai Model.
    And he is French not American.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chassepot
    >Used by
    France
    Monaco
    Qajar Dynasty
    Tokugawa shogunate
    Greece
    Tokugawa Shogunate got about 12000 Chassepot rifles at 1866 written in Japanese wikipedia.
    (1800-2000 get and add 10000 order at 1866)

    Choshu win Shogunate and they find that.
    Their rifles are English Old Rifle, and Shogunate has Cassepot.
    They win not by weapon's spec by tactics and maintainance.
    So they made Murata Rifle.
    This rifle can maintain easily.
    But Choshu and Satsuma had Rifled Cannon,Shogunate didn't have.
    Like this war.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_War
    Prussia had Iron breech loader Cannon but French had not.

    In Sengoku-Era
    Samurai are soldier and police.
    In Edo-Era
    Shogunate Samurai are not soldier but police.
    They forget their Samurai-idea,but Satsuma and Choshu didn't forget.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_of_Japan

    And I think this French Cannon is the best revolutionary cannon in history.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_75_modèle_1897
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  17. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,333
    Location:
    London, UK
    Let me answer you with these two links, if you want to check out the SVN version:
    http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825
    http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=885

    Aha, now I see the problem. I will think about what can be done.

    Anyway, you wouldn't argue that Imjin War was basically won by the Japanese on land, yet lost at sea, as Japanese fleet of the era was inadequate for the task. Also, I did want to honor Hideyoshi's talent as an administrator with appropriate trait, and Japan already has another Seafaring leader.

    Well, "Financial" trait is not necessarily about trade, but rather about getting more money, and he was very good at it. His anti-trade stance is already represented by Isolationist trait. Anyway, I find this discussion rather pointless, as I don't really disagree with you - it's just that some leaders have many more than just two traits that suit them - he could just as well be Political or Protective...

    It's these two:
    https://www.amazon.com/History-Japanese-Armor-Period-Muromachi/dp/4499229545
    https://www.amazon.com/History-Japan-Warring-States-Period/dp/4499229561

    They go over all successive periods of Japanese history and give an excellent and well-illustrated account for every one of them. They're written in both English and Japanese. That was a tremendous help for studying and creating the early Japanese units, as generally one can't find many accurate illustrations for pre-Sengoku period Japan. Any unit you see for early Japan is directly based on an illustration from that book, so they are as accurate as the book is (and I hope it is adequate).

    Yeah, I understand the problem here, but again, I'd like to say that this is a limitation we have with Civ 4 in general; and if we don't use tons of units to represent each successive era for each civ - which is impossible - one has to make peace with the fact that the composition of armies will always be somewhat anachronistic. For instance, there is no way for Egypt currently not to field both New Kingdom spearmen and Hellenistic phalanx at the same time, and these units are separated by roughly 1000 years.

    What I did with Japan is I wanted to represent all eras when it came to units, so I chose Heian to try making a mounted archer. I understand the problem with having Kofun-era cavalry well into the medieval period though, and if I have time I might actually make them (and the swordsman) visually change into Gempei-era samurai when Japan advances to medieval era.

    Yeah, again I understand - but unfortunately spearman is such a long-lived unit that it is inevitably either too early or too late for most of the time, no matter what era you choose. And there was no better unit to represent Nara period.

    All resources are currently called by their English terms and I feel renaming it to Maguro would be confusing for players. There are already complaints that RI uses too many foreign confusing names :)

    Ah, I see the problem now, and I totally agree with you. I didn't get to updating it before, and you are absolutely right that it should have a facelift.

    Well, I try to thoroughly research any civ I work on in RI. Since a lot of it comes down to creating/finding accurate military units, Osprey books are invaluable in this regard. In case of early Japan, I gave the link to the source above.

    Thanks, noted.

    From the very link you gave (see the picture): "A Prussian-style "Gewehr" smoothbore gun, of the type mostly used by the shogunate during the Boshin War (1868-69) in Japan". Basically, the word "Gewehr" in German, unlike English "rifle", does not differentiate between smoothbore and rifled guns, it simply means "gun".

    I think there is a bit of a terminological misunderstanding here. I know well of Tanegashima manufacture in Japan, but it is a matchlock, so it is not a musket but rather an advanced arquebus. And this is represented by Tanegashima-armed arquebusier unit Japan has in RI.

    The term "musket" is most commonly used to denote flintlocks, and those were not manufactured in Japan before Meiji restoration. There is of course no "strict" definition, but in RI, we use this distinction - "Fusilier/Line Infantry" unit is armed with flintlock muskets and bayonets, and those were not used in Japan before XIX century, and not produced locally before mid-XIX century. Here is a good account:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takashima_Shūhan

    And yet, the first locally produced rifle in Japan only happened in 1880. Bakumatsu Japan did not mass-produce personal firearms more advanced than the tanegashima, which was by mid-XIX century a 300 year old design. Even a smoothbore flintlock musket was at the time more advanced than a matchlock tanegashima, so it would be quite normal to import them, especially if they were much cheaper than then-modern rifles.
     
  18. Walter Hawkwood

    Walter Hawkwood RI Court Painter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,333
    Location:
    London, UK
    Hey everyone, a quick question. I was in process of re-making the cartoony berserkers, and I realized a couple of things:

    1) For them to look historically correct, they have to forego the "shirtless, dual-wields axes" iconic look. Real berserkers fought shield/sword or at least shield/axe (as there are descriptions and even depictions of them gnawing on their shields while entering the frenized state). This basically means I have to use normal swordsman animations.
    2) Berserkers make no sense as a unit. These were individuals, champions, who usually spearheaded charges of other, non-berserky vikings. So they are more sort of a "Shock" promo for a unit of vikings than a unit themselves.
    3) There is a well-known viking unit that could be used in their stead: the Jomsvikings. It would basically have the same stats as current berserker NU, and it makes lots of sense to have them as NU. But of course their relative obscurity compared to famous berserkers is somewhat of a drawback.

    So, I would like to ask you, the players: should I turn Scandinavian Berserker NU into a Jomsviking NU? Regardless of the choice, it would have roughly the same stats, and would even look the same (with a new cool look, regardless of the decision).
     
  19. Goetz53

    Goetz53 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    France
    I think Jomsviking units are the better 'realistic' choice. I agree with your remarks on the 'Berserkers' as individual fighters. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Civilai Khan

    Civilai Khan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Japan
    Fast!Reply!Thanks!

    Hideyoshi VS Ieyasu is this thinking
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiocracy
    I see your thinking, and your choice is not same for my idea ,but your idea is good.
    (But in my school book, Ieyasu is general of farmfarmfarmfarm....and his economic sysytem is diclained at 8th Shogun)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyōhō_Reforms

    Ieyasu made Sakoku system,but...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Peter_Thunberg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Kaempfer
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Franz_von_Siebold

    I heard Nabeshima has Mass rifle Producition Capacity.
    He product copy rifle from 1853~1854.
    And I must found the small and thick and green book written about this from my huge bookshelf.
    I forgot the tytle of book.
    This book is not only for Nabeshima but for all shishi.
    And Nabeshima had massprodcut technology, at 185X not 186X.
    And Rifle made in Japan is written by [the times 1860 06/02]
    (paying money and we can read this article)
    from
    http://www.hi.u-tokyo.ac.jp/publication/kiyo/11/kiyo0011-hoya.pdf
    National Univercity research
    (Last page (reference*16))

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Expedition
    (He get One rifle in this time,by spy)
    When he stay at Edo,He lent English Rifle(someone said not English Rifle but M1819) from Shogunate at one night.
    And He made copy print ,at one night.
    I heard that ,his English rifle is from America,not from dutch.
    So Japanese think he is a god of engineer.
    And his shrine.
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/佐嘉神社

    And another article which is online article show that he had Iron works for making rifled cannon from 1850.
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/築地反射炉
    This is Nebeshima's Ironwork for Ironcannon.
    At 1851 they made Iron cannon but I don't know whether this is rifled or bleechroaded.
    And to1859, they made 300 copper and Iron cannons at this ironwork.
    And they made 150 pound cannon.
    (and at least one cannon is 6pound copy armstrong cannon after 1860)
    This Ironwrok is from Dutch book, not from England or America.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sites_of_Japan’s_Meiji_Industrial_Revolution:_Iron_and_Steel,_Shipbuilding_and_Coal_Mining
    Some of them shows Bakumatsu Japan can massproduct Iron rifled cannon.
    And some article shows they made original rifled cannon, not copying armstrong.

    Satsuma Ironworks replica.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/集成館事業
    http://www.senganen.jp/concierges/scene/hansha-ro/


    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/関口製造所
    And this is Shogunate weaponary from 1862.
    They made M1855 and Système La Hitte.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_gunboat_Chiyodagata


    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/韮山反射炉
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/萩反射炉
    Ironworks for Iron Cannon.

    I have articles about Musket about Flintorock type in Japan .
    Too much articles and I can't reply now, sorry.
    But they had flintrock type at 17XX.
    But,I forgot Tanegashima is not flintrock type.

    I heard that samurai don't like flintrock type because of lesser accuracy.
    And reserchaer sayed that flintrock's best point change to tanegashima is bayonet.
    Bayonet is very important weapon.
    And I don't know flintrock superiority for matchrock.
    Hayago is bullet and gunpowder in paper is puroduct in Sengoku-Era.
    Counter-March was used Shimazu and Oda.
    And Japanese tanegashima is customed for quickfire.
    I think bayonet is the best superiority.
    But In Japan, ONLY Date or Takeda has many horseman, so Bayonet is not necessary.
    Many Daimyo used tactics like Tercio,tanegasima with pike.
    Otomo Sourin used field Artillary, because he had Portuguese Bronze Cannon.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breech-loading_swivel_gun
    Otomo dominated Saga province at Sengoku Era.
    So Nabeshima must know Primitive Breech loading cannon tech before Perry expedition.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ゲベール銃
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takashima_Shūhan
    Japanese gewehr is from Dutch not Preussen at least 1831(from Japanese wikipedia) they had this.
    They made copy gewehr maskets many in Japan because gewher has only small change fire system from tanegashima, it has no rifling.
    Hiraga Gennai made flintrock lighters, so technic for flintrock was there.
    http://www.j-times.co.jp/lighter/history.html
    But I don't know number of import or made in Japan.
    http://www.regimentals.jp/detail_gun.php?id=3784
    http://www.regimentals.jp/auto/f7703a27ee520f979fe9931e479059d9.jpg
    This is Japanese gewher, and this homepage is old gun shop.
    This gewher was made by 江州國友藤市郎.
    And another one.
    http://www.xn--u9j370humdba539qcybpym.jp/part1/archives/356
    These are Maybe made in Japan,Because of Printing 漢字.
    http://www.e-sword.jp/antiqueguns/1110-7043.htm
    http://www.e-sword.jp/antiqueguns/1410-7005.htm
    These are???but they call Japanese Gewher.

    I know Rifle was maded at 185X in Saga and at 186X in Satsuma and Shogunate weaponary.
    I may find English article,(but Now I am not live in where is near from national libirary, so I can't go to there)
    I find the book Satuma made 3000 Enfield Rifiles at 1855~1860 and they imported 10000 M1867 in Japanses article.

    Gewehr was made GunSmith, so not made in huge weaponary.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe_Masahiro
    But,one article shows he had gewher factory.

    Maybe your Bakumatsu Infancy is soldier with gewher .(Japanese call this 洋式銃陣(youshiki-jyujin) or 西洋式銃陣(seiyousiki-jyujin))
    This is the Important Point!
    Rifle manufacture start ,at 185X 186X 188X,that is not important in RI.
    The name is very very important!
    And with bayonet.
    Tanegashima is without bayonet.

    And IJA's bayonet is very long type.
    http://ohmura-study.net/815.html
    Murata Rfile's bayonet is 71cm long.
    Blade long is 57cm.


    But Many Japanese think bakumatsu Infancy is Kiheitai with Enfield Rifle.
    There are maybe over 100 Dramas about shishi.
    And Kiheitai is the famous shishi army.
    And at least 50000 Enfieled which used civilwar imported from America to Japan.
    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ミニエー銃
    And they used skirmisher tactics of Engish with rifle.
    (This battle scene is very very popular in TV Dramas)
    https://trc-adeac.trc.co.jp/Html/ImageView/3500115100/3500115100200010/9310052472/
    Skirmisher tactics book.
    洋式銃陣 is with tactics for Flintrock but, Bakumatsu Infantry is with tactics for Rifle.
    This is one of reasons that Choshu win.
    (And If I can't write this in School test, My shool score would be low)

    http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/oy1982/imgs/3/d/3d43f175.png
    http://gunji.blog.jp/archives/1064175501.html
    (Bakumatsu Infantry photo)

    I want Viking to be JormsVikings.
    And add mercenalliy promo.
    Or make Berserk Promo that add unit to offence bonus.
    Berserk's old meanning is not see his behind and don't escape.

    https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/火縄銃#/media/File:Bajou_zutsu.jpg
    This is Tanegashima for horseman.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018

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