Arizona_Steve
King
Would you guys be crazy enough to take on an "always war" DSG?
Realms Beyond Emperor: The DSG's
- Thread starter Sirian
- Start date
I would like to do another deity SG, at some point. Either a beyond-deity on Civ III or a deity on PTW, but I'm still very much in the "explore" stage with PTW -- it's like a new patch only bigger. If the timing works out for me join an RBE deity game (in 2-3 weeks??), that'd be cool. If not an RBE, I'll just start a LotR5 and see who joins.
Edit: As for an AW DSG, I'd be pretty scared. I ran an awfully good, pretty lucky emperor AW game that scared me bigtime for a while (I got zero wonders before Leonardo's -- and Washington had 6 wonders and I couldn't reach. I thought I was going to get a cultural loss, but the AI mucked it up, as it's wont to do).
Arathorn
Edit: As for an AW DSG, I'd be pretty scared. I ran an awfully good, pretty lucky emperor AW game that scared me bigtime for a while (I got zero wonders before Leonardo's -- and Washington had 6 wonders and I couldn't reach. I thought I was going to get a cultural loss, but the AI mucked it up, as it's wont to do).
Arathorn
If you guys are willing to take me and are not starting for a week or so, I'll go for it!
I'm playing my first serious Deity game now, RBCiv epic 17.
I can't of course give any information as to how the game is going as that would be a spoiler, other than me saying I'm not done the game yet.
I'd be up for a regular Deity SG, so long as I'm near the end of the rotation (I don't want too many players weeding out at my first moves (I think I have a solid early game but I'm sure the vets would tear apart some of my decisions)
TIme is a factor right now, so I can't start RIGHT NOW. I have final assignments due in two classes, and have to build my new computer system and set it all up this weekend, plus don't want too much civ overload. Playing Epics 17 & 18, and the RBp1 SG.
I'm playing my first serious Deity game now, RBCiv epic 17.
I can't of course give any information as to how the game is going as that would be a spoiler, other than me saying I'm not done the game yet.
I'd be up for a regular Deity SG, so long as I'm near the end of the rotation (I don't want too many players weeding out at my first moves (I think I have a solid early game but I'm sure the vets would tear apart some of my decisions)
TIme is a factor right now, so I can't start RIGHT NOW. I have final assignments due in two classes, and have to build my new computer system and set it all up this weekend, plus don't want too much civ overload. Playing Epics 17 & 18, and the RBp1 SG.
I would like to join in on one of the next DSGs... Unfortunately, I can't post my results until mid November...
BTW, I don't plan on purchasing PTW until January (because maybe I'll get it for Christmas...), so I am up for just a Civ III game.
JMB
BTW, I don't plan on purchasing PTW until January (because maybe I'll get it for Christmas...), so I am up for just a Civ III game.
JMB
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
May I suggest that when RBE4/5 are started, perhaps one of the games could run on PTW and the other on 1.29f civ? That would seem to be a pretty reasonable compromise to me. But if there aren't too many peope with the expansion yet, maybe that's not a good idea.
As for variant ideas... I personally like the idea of using the Editor to recreate the hyper-fast 1.21f Deity tech pace. Those games were insane, but they were a lot of fun too. Changing the AI cost factor to 50% might be interesting as well, just to see if that would be significantly more difficult than ordinary Deity. I personally think the bonus settler makes the difference over Emperor, more so then the reduced costs, so it would be a good idea to try.
Always War on Deity? Well, if you want to committ suicide go ahead but I'm not taking that one...
As for variant ideas... I personally like the idea of using the Editor to recreate the hyper-fast 1.21f Deity tech pace. Those games were insane, but they were a lot of fun too. Changing the AI cost factor to 50% might be interesting as well, just to see if that would be significantly more difficult than ordinary Deity. I personally think the bonus settler makes the difference over Emperor, more so then the reduced costs, so it would be a good idea to try.
Always War on Deity? Well, if you want to committ suicide go ahead but I'm not taking that one...
I personally would not be interested in an Always War game -- too much micromanagement for me. Hyper-fast tech is fine, or 50% cost if we get a reasonably good starting spot. I would probably not be interested in PTW, as I have no immediate plans to get it (maybe in a couple months...)
Bonus settler versus reduced costs? Hmm, reduced costs includes food for faster growth too, at least if the AI civ starts in a semi-decent location. I don't think the bonus settler would be that big a deal in absence of the reduced costs; it's the combination of both that gives the AIs the super fast starts.
Bonus settler versus reduced costs? Hmm, reduced costs includes food for faster growth too, at least if the AI civ starts in a semi-decent location. I don't think the bonus settler would be that big a deal in absence of the reduced costs; it's the combination of both that gives the AIs the super fast starts.
You might be able to achieve the pace you want with accelerated production turned on. I've tried a few games with it and the biggest problem is running out things to build. I can't imagine the Diety AI at twice the speed. It might be a no-win situation.
Some other ideas would be
* remove the 4 turn tech limit
* go for any cultural victory
* 5CC
* no tech trading
Some other ideas would be
* remove the 4 turn tech limit
* go for any cultural victory
* 5CC
* no tech trading
T-hawk
Transcend
TH3 was a very interesting study of high-level AI attributes. The game was at Emperor difficulty (one extra worker, no extra settler), except with the AI cost factor set to 60%. We matched the AIs in land-grab, got an excellent early FP, and ran away with the game starting in the industrial age. The extra settler is absolutely necessary for the AIs to beat the player in land grabbing.
With equal land between an AI and the player, a cost factor of 60% just about evenly matches with the player's management abilities through the middle ages, and falls behind (often pretty quickly) in the industrial age. With equal land possession, no Deity game is unwinnable. It takes a land deficit of the order of RBE2 for there to be serious competition from the AIs, and we pulled off even that game.
I'm most intrigued by the 50% costs idea, and that's the one that's truly Beyond Deity. It's possible the AIs will keep up for the duration of the game. Also, note that for a city with a granary, the extra cost gets rounded down (on Monarch at 90% cost, it takes four rows of food to grow, or effectively 80% of food cost; at 50% base, it'd take TWO rows, or effectively 40%). 50% AI costs is a full TWO-to-ONE difference on tech costs; even if we pull brokerage deals on every single tech buy we're paying more than the AIs.
I think Sulla, Zed, and myself are interested in that idea; anyone else? With five people I think we can go ahead and start it as RBE4; should we get Sirian's blessing (and hopefully participation)?
With equal land between an AI and the player, a cost factor of 60% just about evenly matches with the player's management abilities through the middle ages, and falls behind (often pretty quickly) in the industrial age. With equal land possession, no Deity game is unwinnable. It takes a land deficit of the order of RBE2 for there to be serious competition from the AIs, and we pulled off even that game.
I'm most intrigued by the 50% costs idea, and that's the one that's truly Beyond Deity. It's possible the AIs will keep up for the duration of the game. Also, note that for a city with a granary, the extra cost gets rounded down (on Monarch at 90% cost, it takes four rows of food to grow, or effectively 80% of food cost; at 50% base, it'd take TWO rows, or effectively 40%). 50% AI costs is a full TWO-to-ONE difference on tech costs; even if we pull brokerage deals on every single tech buy we're paying more than the AIs.
I think Sulla, Zed, and myself are interested in that idea; anyone else? With five people I think we can go ahead and start it as RBE4; should we get Sirian's blessing (and hopefully participation)?
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Well... I haven't skipped any Epics yet, other than the ones where I edited or created the map, and even those kind I've been shadowing lately. I still have the TDG, and... for reasons I can't fully reveal right now, I'm a bit gassed on Civ3. That should pass in a couple of weeks, but for now the thought of another 1.29 game, especially one as desperate as the one we just finished, is just beyond my stamina.
T-hawk, since you have a vision for "beyond" deity, and have for a while, how about you captain up that game and run it in 1.29, where everyone knows what's what. If you like, I can generate a map (after your team has agreed on settings) and ensure that you get something functional (you know the flakiness of the map generator -- sardine pelagos, "continent" pangaeas, "pangaea" continents, etc) to give you a fair shot. If I do help with the map, I'd have to stay out of all commentary, but I'll probably do that anyway for lack of time. Let me know.
I'm interested in the PTW game, which can be run as DSG5. I still haven't installed my copy -- I am currently trying to finish Epic 18 first, and have been enjoying 17 and 18 a lot. An SG is a good place to explore, though. Lots of folks paying attention, lots of different thinking each round, more chance to figure things out or make observations, ounce for ounce, and less intense timewise than solo play, giving a chance to focus on more details.
Charis expressed interest in a DSG and I'd really like to play with him again. He's running that other PTW SG, though, and no idea on his "overdoing it factor", which I don't want to see go into the red again. Charis? What are your plans and thoughts on this?
Arathorn: qualification for these games requires only that a player has beaten Deity and is willing to adhere to the rules of the series. The former is not in doubt, you've been on the list from the start. If you're OK with the latter, then you're good to go. You can join the PTW game team (including me, and possibly Charis) -- your insights and observations would be helpful as we figure out what's what -- or you can join T-hawk's crew for the beyond game. I know that was something you had in mind as an Epic at one point.
So now that we have a plan for two games, one "beyond" and one PTW, it's time to assemble the rosters.
Who's interested?
- Sirian
T-hawk, since you have a vision for "beyond" deity, and have for a while, how about you captain up that game and run it in 1.29, where everyone knows what's what. If you like, I can generate a map (after your team has agreed on settings) and ensure that you get something functional (you know the flakiness of the map generator -- sardine pelagos, "continent" pangaeas, "pangaea" continents, etc) to give you a fair shot. If I do help with the map, I'd have to stay out of all commentary, but I'll probably do that anyway for lack of time. Let me know.
I'm interested in the PTW game, which can be run as DSG5. I still haven't installed my copy -- I am currently trying to finish Epic 18 first, and have been enjoying 17 and 18 a lot. An SG is a good place to explore, though. Lots of folks paying attention, lots of different thinking each round, more chance to figure things out or make observations, ounce for ounce, and less intense timewise than solo play, giving a chance to focus on more details.
Charis expressed interest in a DSG and I'd really like to play with him again. He's running that other PTW SG, though, and no idea on his "overdoing it factor", which I don't want to see go into the red again. Charis? What are your plans and thoughts on this?
Arathorn: qualification for these games requires only that a player has beaten Deity and is willing to adhere to the rules of the series. The former is not in doubt, you've been on the list from the start. If you're OK with the latter, then you're good to go. You can join the PTW game team (including me, and possibly Charis) -- your insights and observations would be helpful as we figure out what's what -- or you can join T-hawk's crew for the beyond game. I know that was something you had in mind as an Epic at one point.
So now that we have a plan for two games, one "beyond" and one PTW, it's time to assemble the rosters.
Who's interested?- Sirian
Urugharakh
Orc Chieftain
I don't own PTW and have no idea if and when I will get a copy But another beyond deity game after Epic 12 sounds promising. So sign me up.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I have PTW and would opt for either game. You can place me whereever it would fit best on the rosters.
T-hawk
Transcend
OK, for Beyond Deity at 50% AI cost, RBE4, I think we have interested:
Urugharakh
T-hawk
Zed-F
Sulla
edit: JMB
I went first in RBE2, someone else can for RBE4.
These were the settings I was thinking of:
Civ: Egypt (all-around useful attributes; scientific, militaristic, and expansionist will all not be very useful)
Map: Standard, Continents, 30% land
Climate: Normal settings (unless someone else has a preference)
Opponents: Seven, random?
Victory: Any
Barbarians: None?
Rules: Regular Deity rules; AI cost factor set to 50%
I'd very much like Sirian to ensure for us a "normal" starting position on the map (a decent land size, some neighbors, but not everyone). Any comments or preferences on these settings?
Urugharakh
T-hawk
Zed-F
Sulla
edit: JMB
I went first in RBE2, someone else can for RBE4.
These were the settings I was thinking of:
Civ: Egypt (all-around useful attributes; scientific, militaristic, and expansionist will all not be very useful)
Map: Standard, Continents, 30% land
Climate: Normal settings (unless someone else has a preference)
Opponents: Seven, random?
Victory: Any
Barbarians: None?
Rules: Regular Deity rules; AI cost factor set to 50%
I'd very much like Sirian to ensure for us a "normal" starting position on the map (a decent land size, some neighbors, but not everyone). Any comments or preferences on these settings?
I would like to participate in the PTW deity SG. I can email my proof of eligibility to Sirian as it is an ongoing Epic
edit: Sirian, let me know what you would need as proof, I remember reading on RBCIV that a HOF image would not be enough anymore.
I have a save game from the last turn of the game.
Jaxom
edit: Sirian, let me know what you would need as proof, I remember reading on RBCIV that a HOF image would not be enough anymore.
I have a save game from the last turn of the game.
Jaxom
Charis
Realms Beyond
I'm definitely interested in a RBE SG game, and particularly miss playing with my Cuban buddy! 
(When I said one SG, I did so keeping a slot in one of these in mind actually)
So yes, a PTW game would be super. Hopefully a bit more on the fun and refreshing side. I definitely understand being gassed, so pick conditions that work against that!
I don't care about the particulars (except I'm in one Celt already and have done Spain too). Vikings, Ottomans, or a Mongols "all-cav" come to mind, but just about anything works.
Charis
(When I said one SG, I did so keeping a slot in one of these in mind actually)So yes, a PTW game would be super. Hopefully a bit more on the fun and refreshing side. I definitely understand being gassed, so pick conditions that work against that!
I don't care about the particulars (except I'm in one Celt already and have done Spain too). Vikings, Ottomans, or a Mongols "all-cav" come to mind, but just about anything works.
Charis
Iteean
Chieftain
If any room becomes available, I'd love to play a DSG. Emperor is just too easy anymore. I do have a few deity wins to my name, but would not call myself "experienced." You have been warned! 
Iteean
I do have a few deity wins to my name, but would not call myself "experienced." You have been warned! Iteean
T-hawk
Transcend
Can you handle a standard map for this one, Zed? We'll need more civs around for the tech brokering opportunity, and hopefully more chances for them to declare war on each other instead of us...
JMB, you make five for RBE4. If everyone likes those game choices, Sirian can go ahead and start the thread and the game...
Of course, if I listed someone there, and you're more interested in the PTW game, please say so
JMB, you make five for RBE4. If everyone likes those game choices, Sirian can go ahead and start the thread and the game...
Of course, if I listed someone there, and you're more interested in the PTW game, please say so
