Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[Whosit]

Cull-Maybe because LH doesnt want it to change since he created it? Also, realpolitiks arent meant to be modified much. You would be changing the entire way the game is played by doing that. I think that LH, and this is my desire as well, desires for realpolitik to be played on the saem base as it is over there, with simple rule adjustements for new situations.

Lighthearter is away until Thursday evening. Perhaps we can wait until he returns and let him speak for himself?

Edit: Surprisingly-time x-post.

Edit again: I think that arya is arguing that there is One Right Way to play in realpolitik and that Cull disagrees.

Its not my fault if all of england is destroyed and the economy is turned to shambles since i will merely be standing by my word.

Um, I think that's the definition of "your fault." It's like a mugger saying "It's not my fault I stabbed that woman and stole her purse; she was the one who walked into the alley!"

 

[Cull]

arya - In about an hour. Along with the epilogue to Ravus-York.

Realpolitik/EP/whatever the hell it is - What. The. Hell. Are. You. Guys. Arguing. About? You've lost me completely.

- Lighthearter

Basically Martial Law, just maybe adding some more stuff assuming you allow it.

 

[arya126]

arya - In about an hour. Along with the epilogue to Ravus-York.

Realpolitik/EP/whatever the hell it is - What. The. Hell. Are. You. Guys. Arguing. About? You've lost me completely.

- Lighthearter

They (Cull, and he has supporters assumedly) want to add more aspects to reapolitik. Cull is complaining that we have an elected dictatorship instead of the democracy we say we have and he wants to restart the arguement that MN started about spreading the power. He can tell you exactly what he wants.

 

[Cull]

The idea is this: Each minister actually holds some power, and can propose their plan to the President. The President, from there will decide yes or no. President can decline in two ways, a normal one, or a special one. Normal one can be overruled by 2/3 majority or more from the ministers, special one can not be overruled. The President will then send the plans from each of the minister complied in a large PM to Lighthearter. Lighthearter plays from there.

EDIT:

As a minister, you are in a semi-autonomous position. What this means is that you are free to come up with plans within your sphere and gather the information you need (including PMing Lighthearter--in fact, I encourage this) before reporting to me. It is semi- in that I basically have the final say if I think I have to. This comes in the form of a veto, of which there are two types.

There is the General Veto, which means we couldn't come to an agreement on some issue, and I think I'm right. This can be overturned if you get a majority of the ministers (4/6, including yourself) to agree with you. The second is the National Security Veto, which I will use only if I think following your plan will threaten England. This cannot be overturned. I'm not planning to use this one very much.

 

[Aysee]

RL Example of EP: The Romans. They had a special clause that in times of great crisis, the Senate could vote to give one man absolute power until the crisis was over. The most famous example is Cincinnatus, who was consul, retired, got voted as the absolute leader when they got into a war, won the war, then retired again. The only problem with this idea is that absolute power gave them well, absolute power, so if they wanted to keep their power, they had total power so they could just suspend the Senate if they tried arguing.
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My post was not to show that Whosit was a dictator, it's only to show that Arya wasn't.


EDIT: The way Whosit has it is fine, just I still want the President to have final say except in the case of the veto. Except I think the President should have to explain the reason for the National Security veto.

 

[Whosit]

RL Example of EP: The Romans. They had a special clause that in times of great crisis, the Senate could vote to give one man absolute power until the crisis was over. The most famous example is Cincinnatus, who was consul, retired, got voted as the absolute leader when they got into a war, won the war, then retired again. The only problem with this idea is that absolute power gave them well, absolute power, so if they wanted to keep their power, they had total power so they could just suspend the Senate if they tried arguing.

Considering that I took a Roman history course once (OK, maybe the expectation is too high), I should have remembered that.

 

[MathNerd]

First, I just skimmed through the pages, so if I don't comment on something really important, just bring it up.

EP is not necessary right now, however, if it does become necessary, I will support it.

Next, I should have made that post say: "My plans were based on me being a member of the opposition but NOT opposition leader."

And finally, what the hell? (Yes, Cull, you read that right. In RL, I'm against using any word that could be interpreted as cussing) WHOEVER SABed STONEHENGE, STOP!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR ing mind!!!

I consider Cull at the top of my suspect list. Wait, no. Cull knows something that would make him unlikely to try again ATM...

EDIT: It's Arya, I'm willing to bet. If I'm right, down goes the opposition...

EDIT: I never agreed to you being opposition leader. I think Ravus should be, so I will report to Ravus. Good day!

EDIT: The opposition is at its lowest levels in the history of England. What did you do this time, Arya....

 

[Cull]

EDIT: The way Whosit has it is fine, just I still want the President to have final say except in the case of the veto. Except I think the President should have to explain the reason for the National Security veto.

Which is exactly what I'm advocating for. The reason for the National Security vote sounds good.

 

[Whosit]

Which is exactly what I'm advocating for. The reason for the National Security vote sounds good.

I intend to explain any veto I issue. It's just a good idea.

 

[arya126]

The opposition level is probably at its lowest levels because you have Ravus agreeing with everything the administration is doing and even encouraging them to get EP. If we dont become active then the OSR will stay low.

Put me at opposition leader, i will have it at fairly strong in 4 days. Give me more days, you get an even higher OSR. I know how to whip up that thing after being opposition leader before and watching you be it.

Ravus's plan of armed revolution if Whosit doesnt comply with giving it up doesnt work if the OSR stays so low. the opposition has to OPPOSE the administration.

And im pretty sure someone cant just declare themselves opposition leader. Even with support, i think it has to be a consensus, or close to it, and i OFFICIALLY DISAGREE WITH RAVUS AS OPPOSITION LEADER.

Trust me, i will wreck my reputation to do whats best for england. But realize this, its a game. Everyone is taking this way too seriously.

MN why do assume me and nobody else? Everybody is a suspect until proven to not be. I will quote myself before:

"Everybody is Innocent until proven guilty, but they are also guilty until proven innocent".

Not sure if thats a quote from somwhere else, but it popped in my head so if nobody thinks its from somewhere else, consider it an official Arya quote. But i have a feeling i picked that up from somewhere.

 

[Aysee]

You know, all this infighting will just make the OSR go even lower...

 

[Whosit]

If the opposition leader is determined by consensus, then just have an open election for Opposition Leader. You vs. Ravus. Whoever gets the most votes wins. (Yes, obviously, only members of the Opposition can vote.) You seem pretty confident that you will be chosen, so that's no problem, right, arya?

 

[arya126]

Also, i still oppose that plan. All this talk is really making me. Cant we just follow the system that is already set up?? You are insisting on modifying something that doesnt need to be modified. "If it aint broke, dont fix it". All your doing is giving stuff official sounding motions.

Heres an idea: Whosit why dont you just listen to what your advisors/ministers suggest, and if you dont agree with it, tell them that and give a reason. Its almost EXACTLY what i would do in my discussions with you over the plans i came up with, except on a scale with everyone. I gave the others a chance as well, but they chose not to change anything.

Give it up.

 

[MathNerd]

About Aysee's post:

Also, I support EP at any time Whosit sees it fit. Yeah, you read that right, Arya.

 

[MathNerd]

Arya, I refuse to listen to anything you say as opposition leader. And I'm getting more and more confident by the minute that you are the suspect...

EDIT: It looks like you're a one man opposition, I say.

 

[Cull]

Why? It doesn't really change anything, but rather adds more of an official system. Also, one man, in this case, Arya, as part of the opposition can't influence the OSR. Remember my opposition leader where I sprouted a bunch of theoretical nonsense? Yeah, OSR didn't go up. Wasn't until WIM and MN(3 at the time was a lot of people) supported me as I got more moderate did it go up. Got a PM from LH saying this back in early May or late April after I asked.

 

[MathNerd]

If a one man opposition does anything, it brings the OSR down.

 

[Aysee]

But a no man opposition is even worse...

Please enough about the sabotage. There's no way that we can prove who did it or not. Only the person and Lighthearter knows.

 

[arya126]

Actually, there is no official way to choose an opposition leader. The rules dont say a thing about it from what i just read. Whosit- I used consensus in the understanding it meant everybody must agree to the person. So if i didnt agree with the candidate, that person cant be a candidate. And until everybody agrees on one, nobody is the opposition leader so the OSR cant rise. Maybe i used 'consensus' in the wrong context as you are giving a suggestion as if i said 'majority'.

MN you know where you can shove your comments?You dont want to know.

 

[arya126]

If a one man opposition does anything, it brings the OSR down.

So why dont you help me the hell out? The opposition is worth nothing and the administration can do anything if im the only one opposing them!