Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[mechaerik]

A single-mindset coalition is more stable than one with many. See the GPC vs. the CoD and CoF.

 

[Cull]

I'm not negotiating over my party description. My party stance is FINAL(disclaimer: until next election).

Care to explain why you are okay with Imperial, but not the NPP, WIM? Or even MathNerd can explain.

 

[MathNerd]

Yes, but CoD had opposing bases. I know it sounds vague, but what I mean is that in CoD, there were several different viewpoints. Some wanted to raise the OSR, others wanted to lower the OSR, others wanted to help the Admin, others wanted to hurt the Admin, etc. However, in Unity, everybody has one goal: To help England, however it needs to be done.

EDIT: I see that edit of yours... Basically, (I hope I said this in a good way) WIM feels that the Imperials care about the economy and infrastructure of England, and will use war when needed. On the other hand, the NPP seems (according to their description) to eliminate everybody, no matter how it is done.

My personal views on this, of course, may differ.

 

[Cull]

Couldn't it be argued that CoD had the same goal as well? Couldn't it be argued that EVERYONE has the goal of helping England(except Lightheater, myself, and Arya in our moods of death)?

And answer the above MathNerd since you "PMed WIM about it". Why does he approve of Imperial and NOT NPP?

 

[ilduce349]

No, Mecharik is right. It is better for the members of a coalition to share at least similar goals, That way they can work together. If half the members want war, and half want peace. The administration will split, and the opposition can easily take charge.

At the start of the game, my goals where most similar to TCP's, hence why I joined the coalition with Cull. However eventually Arya offered me a position of power, one that I decided to take, only to find out that it was lie that he was offering me. Now I am allied with Imperial simply because we needed to win the war. Now I am once again going towards the TCP, this war has been won by us. It isn't over, but its a garenteed victory. Now we need some pacifism, build up an economy after the effects of war. We don't want this war to kill our economy. I say we stop building soldiers and start building buildings. We will go as far into Rome as possible, but as soon we lack the soldiers to take the next city, we stop and negotiate peace. I trust Arya to decide when is the right time to stop. (Don't let me down like on the last billion occasions) We don't want to over expand otherwise our economy will be dead late game. I will once again state the economy plan I would like. We build the Church of Nativity with either Ravus or JMUG the great prophet and mass missionaries when ever we can afford to. Don't stop building them until the end of time. Its a wonder that I have seen give +60 gpt on more then one occasion. In between the missionaries, we build buildings, this will provide us the infrastructure needed. Meanwhile we build nothing but cottages on flat lands (unless there is a resource). This provides us a huge economic bonus on the other civilizations. The benefit of this is all that money can go to research, giving us a huge tech advantage over the other civs. In my last game, with only 9 cities I was the first civilization to complete the tech tree, monarch difficulty, Huge Map. I was the most advanced civilization on the planet, by 5 or 6 techs the whole game through. Mali was on par with my in tech, and as I had a lot of espionage on him, I saw which techs he was researching, I would research different techs of equal value and trade with him. If he refused the offer, I would send a spy and steal the tech. The reason to my tech bonus: 1) 68% of the world was Tao. I massed missionaries like crazy, luckily 2 of the 3 continents had no religions so when I got there I settled missionaries, forced the civilizations to convert to Tao and Theocracy, allowing 6 of the 9 civilizations to have only Tao in the lands. 2) I Built 3 farms in the entire game (1 corn 1 wheat 1 no resource), the rest of my plots where cottages. 3) I had 6 gem in my capitol. My main point is #1 and #2, as they allowed me on monarch to have a massive economy compared to the other civilizations. If we build a lot of cottages and missionaries. The economic power that england could be, especially considering the low difficulty can make us into the worlds only super power. (On Noble difficulty I have seen Panzers vs Muskets, 6 Panzers destroyed the Khmer empire ). I stress the importance of a strong Economy and Tech.

Also, on Friday I am going on Vacation, no internet access for 2 weeks . The request I sent to whosit (which didn't get followed through) was that I we would send a Great Merchant to China while I was away. But as my Great Merchant was used to research Currency (without my consent) I was wondering whether it was possible to send another Great Merchant to China while I was gone and conduct a trade mission (give 2000ish gold, allowing us to run 100% science for a bit)?

 

[MathNerd]

That was a long post, but I disagree with most of the things in it...

EDIT: But I agree with the "importance of technology, economy, and infrastructure" part and the "we need to rebuild our economy" part.

EDIT 2: If I become President, and if most people support your idea, and if LH supports your idea, yes, we'll get you to China ASAP. Otherwise? No.

 

[Cull]

1. Spamming missionaries means that you aren't building buildings, or units, which leads to AIs DOWing on us. You were lucky.

2. Frankly, farms have their uses. Raising the pop to work more cottages. If you cottage spam, unless you have lots of grasses, food resources, and FPs, you probably will never reach the size to work all the cottages in the city's BFC.

3. 6 gems. Either WBed in or pure sheer luck. Your game is one out of a million.

4. Whosit DID NOT have to approve of your Trade Mission to China. You suggested it, but he's the President. He decides, not you.

5. This is Realpolitik, not normal civ. Realpolitik means that Noble is closer to Emperor IMO.

6. Trade mission in a world where everyone might DOW on a moment's notice. I don't think this is a good idea. Even settling is better.

 

[MathNerd]

Oh, and to counter Mech's point about the CoD and CoF: GPC only won once, and that was with a very close result. Compare that to CoD/F's many wins, especially that one with 5-17 or something.

 

[Cull]

Yes, but CoD had opposing bases. I know it sounds vague, but what I mean is that in CoD, there were several different viewpoints. Some wanted to raise the OSR, others wanted to lower the OSR, others wanted to help the Admin, others wanted to hurt the Admin, etc. However, in Unity, everybody has one goal: To help England, however it needs to be done.

EDIT: I see that edit of yours... Basically, (I hope I said this in a good way) WIM feels that the Imperials care about the economy and infrastructure of England, and will use war when needed. On the other hand, the NPP seems (according to their description) to eliminate everybody, no matter how it is done.

My personal views on this, of course, may differ.

Ilduce, how about you put your PM here in public, so we can actually address it without having to go through a bunch of forwards, wasting everyone's time?

Maybe Lighthearter hasn't had time or seen it yet, but just in case, here is the NPP's new description back from 20 or so posts back.



I want to clarify something here. Just because we want everyone except those in the English Empire gone does not mean we will do constant war. We'll also do peace, negotiations. The party's final goal is to kill them all.

Lighthearter, still just copy paste the stuff in the box, NOT the stuff below it.

Both parts, the top(ILDUCE, I KNOW YOU ARE THERE!!!), and the bottom.

 

[MathNerd]

Wait, what?

EDIT: This is like the, what, 5th crosspost/crossedit on this page?

 

[Aysee]

@Cull: We don't even know if there's China...

I propose not ending the war yet, but trying to claim Italy and maybe Germany before ending the war. And renaming Antium Whosit City.

Oh yeah, my computer access is going to be spotty for the upcoming week. Mechaerik makes all decisions while I'm gone.

 

[Cull]

That was in response to Ilduce my 1-whatever thing.

 

[MathNerd]

If I become Prez, I'll see what the general opinion on the war is before choosing whether to continue it or not. If more people want to continue it, it'll continue. If more people want to end it, it'll end.

 

[Cull]

So you become a puppet of the masses, instead of a President who has to make tough choices. If I wanted someone who would just sit there and do whatever the masses say, LH would run.

 

[MathNerd]

On certain issues, I won't just sit there and listen to the people, but I'll act. On other issues, I'll listen to what the rest of the Englishmen want.

 

[Darth Caesar]

I would like to chime in and say that I think we should utterly destroy Rome thus wiping out the threat posed by Caesar once and for all.

 

[ilduce349]

1. Spamming missionaries means that you aren't building buildings, or units, which leads to AIs DOWing on us. You were lucky.

Actually I was on my own Island. I had 20 Tiremes, upgraded them to ironclands and then destroyers. those who DOWed me lost before they landed. Eventually, right before I wont the game the Aztecs broke throught and took half my cities and they won a time victory

2. Frankly, farms have their uses. Raising the pop to work more cottages. If you cottage spam, unless you have lots of grasses, food resources, and FPs, you probably will never reach the size to work all the cottages in the city's BFC.

My city sizes where:
7, 11, 14, 17, 20, 20, 20, 24. Most of them where big enough

3. 6 gems. Either WBed in or pure sheer luck. Your game is one out of a million.

Kinda: What I like to do is on the first turn, enter world builder then look for the best territory on the map that isn't claimed by other civilization. move my settler and scout there and start playing. However I have consistently done this on Noble without the assistance of Gems.

4. Whosit DID NOT have to approve of your Trade Mission to China. You suggested it, but he's the President. He decides, not you.

He can't decide what MY great merchant does. he had no right, and that is why i am complaining

5. This is Realpolitik, not normal civ. Realpolitik means that Noble is closer to Emperor IMO.

Its Noble difficulty if we have no opposition sabotages

6. Trade mission in a world where everyone might DOW on a moment's notice. I don't think this is a good idea. Even settling is better.

Refer to point #4

Both parts, the top(ILDUCE, I KNOW YOU ARE THERE!!!), and the bottom.

Where you expecting me to read those two quotes? The reason this took me so long to respond to is I am busy watching Naoki Urasawa's Monster, so I will make one post every 24 minutes. (In between episodes)

 

[W|M]

Oh. Um... ah... yeah, that's a problem then. Well, is NPP or Green willing to cooperate some on their policies?

I'll try to be a neutral mediator between the NPP and the Green Party.

Impossible.

First: You're past 1000 posts, WIM!

More on topic, keep in mind that diversity in a coalition is a very good thing. A coalition that has only one mindset is doomed to fail.

I reached 1000 in the Random Raves thread in Off-Topic.

A single-mindset coalition is more stable than one with many. See the GPC vs. the CoD and CoF.

Yes, but CoD had opposing bases. I know it sounds vague, but what I mean is that in CoD, there were several different viewpoints. Some wanted to raise the OSR, others wanted to lower the OSR, others wanted to help the Admin, others wanted to hurt the Admin, etc. However, in Unity, everybody has one goal: To help England, however it needs to be done.

EDIT: I see that edit of yours... Basically, (I hope I said this in a good way) WIM feels that the Imperials care about the economy and infrastructure of England, and will use war when needed. On the other hand, the NPP seems (according to their description) to eliminate everybody, no matter how it is done.

My personal views on this, of course, may differ.

That was a long post, but I disagree with most of the things in it...

EDIT: But I agree with the "importance of technology, economy, and infrastructure" part and the "we need to rebuild our economy" part.

EDIT 2: If I become President, and if most people support your idea, and if LH supports your idea, yes, we'll get you to China ASAP. Otherwise? No.

Oh, and to counter Mech's point about the CoD and CoF: GPC only won once, and that was with a very close result. Compare that to CoD/F's many wins, especially that one with 5-17 or something.

Wait, what?

EDIT: This is like the, what, 5th crosspost/crossedit on this page?

If I become Prez, I'll see what the general opinion on the war is before choosing whether to continue it or not. If more people want to continue it, it'll continue. If more people want to end it, it'll end.

On certain issues, I won't just sit there and listen to the people, but I'll act. On other issues, I'll listen to what the rest of the Englishmen want.

 

[Darth Caesar]

WIM is a agreeable guy.

 

[MathNerd]

This is crazy. Unity is as united as we would like it to be.

My discussions with Cull on chat are even crazier. If anybody receives any PMs from Cull regarding me, disregard them until I confirm them.

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