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Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Stories & Tales' started by Lighthearter, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. Cull

    Cull Big Daddy

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    Un-lurk(Yet again...)

    Sure. Like you said though, I probably won't ever use some "official" power.

    Lurk
     
  2. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Thanks, Ravus, that's very helpful information.
     
  3. Ravus_Sol

    Ravus_Sol God-Emperor of Mankind

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    The Ravus Administration Years - Coalition of Doom

    The Original Plan: “Limited Options”
    Spoiler :

    The original plans for the turnset were planned out over the course of the election and the after period where the ministers were put in power. most of them around page 12-20

    It became obvious however that any cautious plan would not survive. Due to the turns being played out by lighthearter , the plan would either have to be vauge enough to be fluid and alterable or very micromanaged and clear.

    after arguing over the importance of a second city, stonehenge and the development of london a consenus was reached.

    -

    Work Plan
    worker = farms cows -> quarries stone -> chops forest a single forest to speed up the wonder -> builds mines untill end of turn.

    Interior build plan:
    London build order = Fish boats -> stonehenge
    London work order = Work the 2forested hills and the cows -> untill the work boat is done then work the fish and cows -> untill london grows and has gotten the quarry up and running.


    Tech path:
    Masonry -> Sailing -> Bronze working -> Hunting -> Animal Husbandry

    Military outlook:
    Archers for basic defence and groups of free-roaming “Rangers” that can handle any threat that enters the land before it becomes a nuisance.

    -

    Note: it was during this planning period that Cull displayed himself a well spoken and easily negotiatied with opposition leader (to the joy of Ravus) It was also when the pacifist manner of the First Coalition parties was tested and confirmed.


    The Discussions: Tentitive Steps
    Spoiler :
    Lighthearter started his now well known method of allowing discussions and dialogue to prosper during the run-in’s to a administration. During this Administration, the first truely elected one, the speculation on everything was rampent. Who we might meet, what technologies we could discover and where our potential threats might come from.

    It was here that many people became convinced of the initial threat of a powerful Rome and the potential ally that could be gained from Russia (Oh how wrong we were)

    The Idea of a Minister for the Press is joked about. (could be useful to act as intermediary between opposition and Leader these days)


    Ravus Administration - Part 1
    Spoiler :

    Post 484# shows the first update.

    Turn 38 - 2480 BC
    Spoiler Tsar of Russia, Buddist and Ally? :

    The Russians make contact. They have allready become the founders of Buddism. Our initial meeting is peaceful and Peter seems to be a nice if cautious ruler. Ravus decalred a peace treaty and took no initial agressive acts against these people.

    -

    The First in-game issue is highlighted and our english people demand the building of a settler to claim more lands. It seems to be focused on Scotland and the idea of claiming all of our small island.

    -

    Turn 48 - 2080 BC
    Spoiler City State of England :

    The initial Part ends with a picture of Scotland to closer examine the settler questions.

    -

    London has managed to gain Fish and Stone and develop it’s land enough to have finished stonehenge! This great English Wonder would forever influence the lives of our people.


    Issues: The Settler Crisis & More
    Spoiler :
    A peaceful petition in game shows the city of london is demanding settlers. This is the first none-lighthearter Issue.

    Scouting: This issue arrises naturally all by itself. There are some that wish mass scouting and others that merely wish to settle France staight away.

    Side-tracking to complete either of these issues would deviate from the initial plan but they were both important. Ravus in particuler was fond of scouting and wished to eventually use these scouts as diplomats inside rival borders to keep an eye on their military movements.

    -

    Ravus’s Mid-term Review can be found on post 492#
    In it he highlights his role as a balancer of the wills of the people and continues to form a government that asks for the advice of fellow politicians.

    -

    Wonders: The Great Wall and the Oracle were considered for another wonder in the near future. Ravus did not focus on this too much, knowing that another wonder would be impossible to complete in his tenure. However idea’s were formed in the parties around them and while many eventually gave up hope of the Great Wall (after realising it would need to be built on the continent to be effective) some retained hope for using the Oracle...

    -

    The initial plan was amended and hunting and archery were chosen to be researched. Scouting was done by a lone Warrior, that is still wandering to this day. The Wonder question was put on hold.


    The Realpolitick Reporter
    Spoiler :
    Lighthearter flexes high reporting muscles and takes interviews from the leader and the opposition. This method of highlighting the different political views has not been repeated yet but i am sure we would all look forward to it if it was.

    Interview with Cull: Post 501#
    Cull continues to be a opposition leader who favours dialogue. He highlights his thoughts on the Russians, Settlement, The Great Wall, Buddism and whether Cull desired to Run for the next election.

    To get all his in depth answer look to the post. It is however easy for me to state that Cull did desire to gain the Leader position at that time.

    Interview with Ravus: Post 575#
    Although Ravus answered the questions during his tenure the interview was not posted untill during the next elections. In his interview Ravus answers many of the same questions that Cull did. You may see the original for all the details.

    It contains the ominious remark of letting the russians “make the first move”

    It was in response to this that Ravus asked Mecharik to become the new leader of the Liberal Marixts and that Ravus decided he would not be wanting any more powerful positions in government. After a throwaway line about becoming a secluded Monk, Ravus stumbled on a idea to form a new wholy neutral party. The Stonehenge Monks were born.


    Ravus Administration - Part 2
    Spoiler :

    Post 542# shows the second part of Ravus Sol’s Tenure.

    Turn 57 - 1720BC
    Spoiler Ragnar the Cautious Buddist :

    The English people discover the Vikings who are allready buddist. These people are even further away then the Russian because of the sea barrier. All the english people felt more connected to these ruffians then the pose’ Russians because of the safety of being seperated by sea. Perhaps a silly way of thinking... Or perhaps the English people secretly thought the Vikings idiots and that they would be easily manouvered politically... The thoughts were wide spread and many comments were murmered after the meeting.

    Spoiler Julius Ceaser our Neighbour :

    The Romans were discovered at the same time. All of england decalred together that Julius Ceaser was too threatening... Our expansion interests clashed with Rome allready having a prescence in france. This was far to quickly and many politicans started to panic. The only peace of mind came from the fact that Rome was not a supporter of Buddism and thus did not have the backing of Russia or Vikingdom.

    Turn 58 - 1680BC
    Spoiler Asoka, Hindu King :

    Our lone wanderer also managed to raise lines of communication with the distant indians. These heathens worshiped the polytheistic Hinduism, meaning they were mistusted by most of the European Buddist powers. England saw in India a potential trading partner...

    -

    Spoiler New City of York :

    The City of York was founded on the western coast of France. Because of the distance Ravus found he had actually had no say in it’s position. However he forgave the settlers as it was understandable they would not wait for his orders after seeing the close Roman City of Antium in east France.

    -

    The Techs were all discovered just as planned and writing was discovered in the end of the Administration and was one turn from completing archery for defence.

    -

    England managed to perform satisfacrorly under Ravus Sol’s leadership. For a brief time they were top of the scoreboard and they ended Turn 70 with a second city, a galley ship for transport, and a well explored map that showed england had no metals or resources to promote happyness.

    It was NOW that england turned it’s envious eyes on the resource rich Spain or as we begain to call it... Iberia!

    Spoiler Germanic Lands :


    Spoiler Iberian Lands :


    -

    Ravus Sol’s last comments in power were to point out the horses and copper in Iberia and state that england needed them. His question on the renaming of new cities such as York began the tradition of naming cities after the last leader. Thus York became Ravus-York.


    The Second Election: “Changing Sides and the Power of the Swing-vote”
    Spoiler :

    The system started to show begining signs of becoming a two-coalition system. Both the First Coalition and the Coalition of Doom quickly re-afirmed their previous alliance and again squared up.

    Again people would vote while the parties were highlighting ideas for the future of the republic. Speculation ran rampent and ideas formed as quickly as the votes flowed in. The main opposing view was the settlement of scotland or spain as the most important issue. The First coalition, now a firmly pacifist and left wing group, quickly showed their support for settlement in europe. While the Doomed Coalition voiced it’s desire for scotland.

    Ravus declared his departure from the polls. His leaving comments on new names that could be used actually ended up being the ones that were chosen. (i’d forgotten this.) Thus after a biref vote in party the coaltions were born anew. The First Coalition renamed itself the Green Philosphers better highlighting it’s thoughts and politics, while the Coalition of Doom became the Coalition of the Future.

    The Smaller parties were now more aware of their political position and following in the fashion of the original nationalists started to get the bigger coalitions to make offers to them. The Conosortium weighed up it’s options between the two while the nationalists broke apart. One of the parties disapeared into obscurity and the second one, The Royal Nationalists, weakened by it’s solidarity, stayed afixed to the Coalition of the Future.

    As Ravus founded a new party, The Stonehenge Monks, to purposefully act as a mediator and swing vote. Cull quickly siezed on the oppurtunity to rally his party. His secret army of lurkers quickly sprang up to gain him a quick lead in the polls. With no clear rallying point in the CoF who wished to become leader the GPC looked to have a clear win.

    The Consortium seeing the growing lead for the new Green Philosophers Coalition offered it’s party in exchange for a position as Minister of Finance. It was now that the previous Swing voter, Ayra, from the first election re-emerged and voiced his desire to run for the Leader position. Feeling he could do a good job. See Post 610# for his opening speech.

    The Coalitions ended in a close tie with the Stonehenge as the potential swing voters who could force a draw... Ravus, not wishing to make a decision blind, and believing his party would not matter, asked for a plan for the future from the leaders and he would choose the best one.

    -

    It was here we discovered THE RULE that votes could not be changed mid-election when Ayra tried to withdraw a vote from the monks to his own coalition. The vote had been extended as a sign of initial good will in invitation to his coalition and neither party had known that you could not change it.

    As if that was not enough drama for the elections, another RULE was found as the Consortium were tempted away from the Green Philosophers by Ayra. It was discovered that while voting could not be changed between parties. The parties themselves could indeed drop out and rejoin different Coalitions.

    These were immense political discovereries and there was much disconent with finding them all out during the last day of the election. It was here that people realised the importance of being able to trust your coalition members (further strengthening the bonds in the GPC duo)

    Thus the vote was now a even tie 14 to 14.

    Ravus held the last unaligned, non-coalition party. The Stonehenge Monks.

    -

    Another day of intense negotiations began.

    As it is I, Ravus, Who am writing this summery, I do not mind saying that I was tempted not to vote and let it decend into a tie. I felt honour bond to Ayra and my old party while i supported Cull’s bid for leadership and aproved of his initial plan.

    The polls closed in post 737# after my decision to throw my support behind the Green Philosophers. Although the votes had been counted in post 716# both parties agreed to allow the polls to stay open till the end. As to close polls early was a “petty political tactic” (quoting mathnerd)

    The Administration was a smaller one then before with only 3 positions instead of 6. Although Ravus wished only to be a silent partner he was asked to take the role of a war minister because the rest of the party were pure pacifists.

    • Leader = Cull
    • Interior Minister = West India Man
    • Military Minister = Ravus Sol
    • Foriegn Minister = Mathnerd

    Ayra was apointed the opposition leader. He quickly embarked on a much more agressive opposition stance then Cull’s tenure. His first post as opposition leader started of the phase of story insertions during the Cull Administration. (See post 742#)
     
  4. mechaerik

    mechaerik Tuturuu!

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    I had also thought about making some kind of history book for Britain, but never did it.
     
  5. Ravus_Sol

    Ravus_Sol God-Emperor of Mankind

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    Yeah i actually found the post with you stating you would try to write a summery for the first two turnsets (LH and MY Administrations) So you get full kudo's for having the original idea
     
  6. Lighthearter

    Lighthearter President of the United States

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    Links to the "Books of Ravus" added to the first page:goodjob:

    - Lighthearter
     
  7. MathNerd

    MathNerd High on math (a, not e)

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    Negotiations still going on.

    I'd say that Aysee has the power of Prez until Arya gets back.
     
  8. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    This is the build/worker plan I have come up with. Please note that, despite its length, it is a rough draft.

    In London, the Library should be whipped. The city is currently unhappy, without the city view, I do not know how far over the happy cap it is. However, looking at our territory, it does not appear that we have any Happiness resources, so it seems like the city is 3 citizens over the cap? (Just noticed that Ravus-York is OK at size 5 with no protection (+1 unhappy) so I'm not sure what the happy cap is in this game. I thought even on Noble the base happy cap was 4 for non-capital cities.)

    I cannot tell exactly how many hammers are invested in the Library, but I'd like to multi-pop whip it for as close to maximum overflow as possible. That means it should be whipped as it approaches 29 out of 90 hammers, or 59 out of 90 hammers. Each population point is worth 30 hammers when whipped; whipping at 29/90 means 3 population need to be whipped (not quite enough for 60), but that the third pop is mostly leftover that goes into the next build.

    After the Library, London should build a Galley, unless our other Galley can be recalled within 5 turns, in which case a Worker should be built to allow time for the unhappiness caused by the whipping to diminish.

    Liverpool may as well finish the Archer it is building, but it should build a Granary next. It does not look like the city has any basic infrastructure. In fact, looking closely, it looks like London does not have a Granary! (So that should be London's third build.)

    On the home islands, here's what our Workers should be doing: The Worker building the Pasture for the Sheep needs to have that action canceled. No city is going to be working that sheep. The Worker building a Cottage near London also needs to be reassigned immediately. It is clear that the capital cannot grow large enough to use all those improved tiles! This is a waste of Worker Actions.

    Those two Workers need to be reassigned to Liverpool. A road needs to be built 1 tile southeast of Liverpool, connecting it to the capital, and the Deer needs to have a Camp (it appears to be in progress) and both grassland hills need mines immediately so that Liverpool can have a production base.

    Once those jobs have been completed, all those Workers need to be shipped to Iberia.

    Birmingham should stop the training of that Worker. It is almost always subpar for a new, non-capital city, to build a Worker first because it slows growth so much. Normally, I would switch to a Granary, but our military situation is desperate, so switch to an Archer. Work the Wheat tile. It looks like the city might grow in about 6 turns, at which point you can whip the Archer. This is faster than slow-building it and working the Copper hill, which would take 9 turns.

    Norwhich should work the forested plains hill to get the Archer out more quickly. Although, honestly, I would not be saddened if the city was burned down, since it was pretty poorly placed (as was Birmingham, but we don't want to lose our cities there, so ignore this comment). There's really no way to grow the city quickly for a whip, so all you can do is pray that the Barbarian doesn't beeline the city.

    Ravus-York: Pigs should have been pastured first because they are worth 6 food. Pasture them immediately. I cannot tell if the city has a Granary or not. If it does not, let the Archer get to 1 turn from completion, then whip the city and put the overflow into a Granary. If it does have a Granary, whip the Archer into a Barracks. We'll need those promotions available. If the whip puts the city at its happiness limit, build a Worker after the Barracks to slow grow, and work forest tiles instead of the Pigs.

    We need to get the Copper hooked up ASAP, so that should be the Worker's first mission once they reach Iberia. As soon as a boat is available, ship 1 or 2 there, even if the improvements on the home island are not complete yet. Otherwise, all cities need a Granary, and all cities that will be producing troops need a Barracks, but a basic defender is more important (so if the city is empty, a basic Archer is more important than the Barracks).

    Libraries are currently useless anywhere besides the capital, so don't build them. Libraries multiply beakers by 25%, so you need a minimum of 4 beakers for them to even have an effect. Until our cities have cottages and are outputting around 8+ beakers, I don't think Libraries have any use besides culture, so military units would be best for now.

    Once Copper is hooked up, a mix of Axemen and Spearmen will be necessary for an adequate defense.

    I'll want to see a clearer picture of eastern Iberia before committing to new settlement sites, but here's my thoughts in the order of important:

    1) Settle between the Silver and Gold on Iberia. Needs Work Boat for Fish
    2) Settle 1 east of Marble on Iberia. It looks like it can pick up the Fish to the east. If not, this position needs to be rethought.
    3) Wines city.
    4) British peninsula city.

    This is just a rough plan at the moment, but hopefully new information from LH will let me provide more exact details. It is very difficult to plan for accurate micro-management when the save is not available, however.
     
  9. MathNerd

    MathNerd High on math (a, not e)

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    OOC: Whosit, as politicians, we are all very reluctant to adopt slavery.

    IC: The people of England are appalled at the mere thought of adopting slavery. DO NOT ADOPT SLAVERY!!!!!!!!!!!! (Unless you want the OSR to rise, but we're find with that! :p)
     
  10. Aysee

    Aysee Winter is Coming

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    Great job Ravus!! I had the dim idea of doing something like this myself, never got around to it but you did a better job than I could ever dream of!:goodjob:

    Slavery is actually a useful civic...Whyever are you against it, MN?

    mechaerik, I appoint you second in command (I think this was already implied, but, redundancy is always better) and ideological head of the LMP. That means you get to write all the speeches, statements, campaign stuff, etc.

    Revised POA upcoming
     
  11. MathNerd

    MathNerd High on math (a, not e)

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    :eek: :confused:

    OOC: If this were a normal civ game, I would have adopted slavery ages ago. However, THIS IS REALPOLITIK!!!!

    IC: GO ASK ANY SLAVE, ANY THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT SLAVERY IS HORRIBLE!!!! IT TEARS FAMILIES APART!!!! AND IN WHAT WAY ARE SLAVES INFERIOR TO THEIR MASTERS? WE ALL ARE HUMAN!!!!

    In my eyes, slavery is OUT OF THE QUESTION!!!!!!
     
  12. MathNerd

    MathNerd High on math (a, not e)

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    Sorry for all of that screaming. I had to get my point across, after all.
     
  13. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    I suppose he is acting in character. However, it's not like the English have developed a set of ethos that opposes slavery (Emancipation). I'll admit that it's hard for me to completely avoid the metagame, but if you're planning to run a No-Slavery variant given our current position, you are asking for trouble.

    Edit: Bit of a cross-post.

    To try and step in-character for a moment, keep in mind that there are many undesirables in English society: Thieves, murderers, and criminals of all kinds. We should give them a chance to benefit the greater society by putting them to hard labor. I am not proposing that we permanently enslave a portion of our population or force hard labor upon anyone who has not shown that they deserve it by breaking the customs of our land. (MathNerd, keep in mind that all slavery was not the type of perpetual slavery as practiced in the United States.) Given the fact that many of our city locations benefit from great food surpluses, being able to translate that into manpower would be extremely beneficial to our nation.

    I urge the administration to immediately adopt the Slavery Civic, and I hope that all other members of the Parliament who desire England to become strong and respected to urge the same.

    Less in-character, if we do not have Slavery, then many of our Continental cities are going to be completely overrun in the event of an attack, and will be extremely slow to develop themselves. Slavery is one of the most powerful civics in the game.
     
  14. MathNerd

    MathNerd High on math (a, not e)

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    Say you whip London two pop points down. So you are suggesting that more than one out of every 4 people in our empire is a thief or villain, in our capital??? :eek:

    If so, we have way more pressing problems to deal with. :lol: :p
     
  15. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Population points are still abstract at best, especially given that they represent scaling numbers of people (can't recall off the top of my head, but if 1 poplation = 1,000 people, 2 Population = 3,000 people, or something like that). In the same way, you can train basically an unlimited number of units, military or otherwise, no matter how many cities you have or how large they are. Some aspects of the game mechanics just cannot be resolved with real-world logic.

    That said, are you still as opposed to a program (or, perhaps, programme) of situational slavery, rather than hereditary slavery (which is truly barbarous)? Crime certainly exists, even in an empire as glorious as ours, and it is a problem that must be dealt with. Give criminals a chance to be be productive, I say.
     
  16. MathNerd

    MathNerd High on math (a, not e)

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    Ah, but are criminals humans? In what way can we look down upon them? After all, a person gets only one chance at life (we're not religious right now in-game), and isn't it a shame to waste that chance at life by working painfully and torturously?
     
  17. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Not really. Especially considering that the things they build (Granaries, Libraries, and the like) will long outlive the lives they would have otherwise had, and will benefit the English people for generations. If you like, we can make sure that any project constructed due to Slave labor will have a little plaque with all the names of those who gave their lives to the greater good.

    (As an aside, we probably don't need a religion to have an idea of the afterlife--I see the big seven in the game as specific, organized religions. Since our Religion Civic is Paganism, our people probably have various, local beliefs and may worship local gods and ancestral gods. Just my thoughts on the matter.)
     
  18. MathNerd

    MathNerd High on math (a, not e)

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    OOC: :lol:

    IC: First, there is the moral problem of how the choose the slaves.

    Also, the point of life is to be happy, not work for something that may or may not even finish in your lifetime. Really, once you die, you don't get a second chance at life. (In RL I'm Hindu, :lol:, but I think scientifically over religiously.)
     
  19. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Choosing slaves is easy: Anyone who has been convicted of a crime and imprisoned is a candidate for slave labor should the need arise.

    Personally, I think those who have chosen to violate the laws and customs of our lands, or who have violated the rights of others to live a free and happy life have given up their own right to live as they please. Of course, not everyone who is condemned to imprisonment will die as a slave. Some may serve their sentences and be released; others may be put to labor, but survive the ordeal.

    I'm not sure how many players are still active here, but perhaps this should be put to a vote?
     
  20. Lighthearter

    Lighthearter President of the United States

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    I will advance the turnset one the President clocks back in and gives me a plan. If that hasn't happened by Saturday, I'll put it on Aysee.

    - Lighthearter
     
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