Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

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Enslaving only the criminals is useless because ALL OF THE CRIMINALS IN OUR NATION WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CREATE ANYTHING ACTUALLY WORTHWHILE.

Also, if a size 5 city is whipped down two sizes, you're saying that almost half of our population is a criminal accused of a severe crime. Then we have some major problems.
 
Guys, this is starting to get ridiculous. I've given it some thought, and I really, really don't think we can use Civ's whipping mechanic to explain any type of slavery.

You can literally whip a size 20 city down to a size 1 city over the course of several turns (this is almost never a good idea, of course). Does this mean that nearly the entire population was criminal? Not likely. Does this mean that nearly the entire population consisted of hereditary slaves? I don't think so. Does this mean that 19 "population" was controlled by just 1? Possibly, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense. What if you hadn't whipped it that much? Would that have changed how many people were slaves or forced laborers? I have no idea.

What I am basically trying to say is that I do not think that the whipping mechanic has a very good "metagame" explanation and that trying to come up with one (that explains the mechanic, anyway) is kind of pointless. I have a vague recollection from Civ III (I never used the whip there much, but I was much more inexperienced, too) that they explained the pop loss as a combination of worker deaths and emigration as citizens left due to the harsh demands (granted, the whip mechanic wasn't tied to slavery, but it was essentially the same mechanic). Where did those emigrants go? Who knows!

Some of the game's mechanics are abstract. Especially if you look at a city's "true" population. As you grow, each pop-point represents an ever greater number of "actual" citizens. Therefore, if you think about it "literally," a 2-pop whip in a size 8 city spends more "citizens" than the same whip in a size 4 city, yet they produce the same number of hammers. How does this make sense? It doesn't, at least, not to me, and I'm not about to figure out a way to justify it.

For what it's worth, I'd rather that the debate (which should be long over since it is no longer productive) remain on the moral plane. It made much more sense when we were arguing if criminals should be used for forced labor or not. Arguing about whether the entire population is criminal or not is senseless.

The only thing that makes sense is that you need more laborers to complete larger projects, but I see the population points as being so abstract that trying to tie them to exact population figures to be an exercise in lunacy.

These statements reflect only the opinions of Whosit. Thank you.
 
Whosit is right. There isn't a direct correlation between RL and Civ. Lets stick to either RL or Civ, but not combine both.
 
Whosit, after you become leader next term (probably), you should join the ex-leader group. You'd fit in with the Monks perfectly! :lol:
 
Whosit, after you become leader next term (probably), you should join the ex-leader group. You'd fit in with the Monks perfectly! :lol:

Well, I'm flattered that you have so much faith in me, although being a Monk doesn't much appeal to me. I'm a practical person, rather than spiritual, although I have the utmost respect for them. And I visit Stonehenge every Sunday, like all gods-fearing Englishmen do. :lol:
 
Visit stonehege if you want. I visit the gods themselves that control stonehenge!
 
Visit stonehege if you want. I visit the gods themselves that control stonehenge!

Ummm . . . what. :confused:

I can only assume that you are referring to Lighthearter.
 
Hey i dont know ANYTHING about stonehenge. Maybe some god controls it. And the prez is so powerful i can visit him whenever i want. But only on mondays.
 
Lighthearter how late are you posting the update?
 
I'm BAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!! Now give me a few hours to catch up.

103 PAGES!!
 
Finally aysee, you were about to be MIA. How many pages did we start the day with? At least it wasnt a 10 page day. Or a 300 comment day. Your lucky. Half of it is just spam!
 
Seeing that the last three pages were just wild OT debates on slavery, it turns out I didn't actually miss that much!!:D

So, yeah. I assume we're adopting slavery; suppport the build plan, and on Peter/Ragnars OUTRAGEOUS demands; I say, we must show them the strength of the English people; show them that we can stand up to the Foreign Imperialists; and if it comes to war; we shall fight them in the hills, fight them in the seas, fight them on the beaches, fight them from city to city, rooftop to rooftop, we shall fight the oppressors until they are taught that the English people are strong and can not be trifled with!!!!
 
The Realpolitik Reporter

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Mathematics! The foundation of knowledge! Finally those secrets are ours!

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We met two new leaders in this time - Ramses of Egypt and Shaka of Zululand.

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After we discovered Meditation, Asoka tried to take it from us without paying. That didn't go over well here in the Reporter headquarters.

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Ramses tried to pry Alphabet from us. We declined and gave Writing to the Irish instead.

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A source of Iron in Wales!

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Then something very strange happened at one of the annual we-love-literature conferences. 11 Libraries by the Renaissance and a bonus if we have the Great Library at that time. Hmmm.

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The establishment of a new city in the Netherlands went off smoothly - we call it Nottingham.

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Evidently, however, when our settlers repositioned their fledgling basecamps in Spain, the barbarians we were so worried about settled down their own base at "Chinook".

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Then several things happened at once:

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So, that's the latest news - now what is England to do about all this?

- Lighthearter
 
YAY!

We founded Christianity and the opposition didn't have to pay a penny!!! :p

Anyway, what's the battle odds if we attack the barb city with our archer? I'm thinking about taking it. I know, :eek:, but the English people know that they are already at war with barbarians, and they know that this city will create units that will attack our own precious cities.

Good thing we got Iron, very useful indeed so we don't need to chase copper. Also, I see two happiness resources. Good, good!

BTW, did you intend Shaka's picture to be upside down?
 
Yeah, Chinooks in a great location. We should take it and bring civilization to those wretches.
 
Well before i comment on important things, realize that christianity was founded at about year 0, which i think is supposed to be the historic founding time right? (or is that the birth of christ?)

Anyway on the events-

1.The picture of shaka is upsaide down.

2. We need OB with shaka and egypt ASAP. Shaka might not be a good ally for the near future, but he has no religion and could be a great ally down the road, especially if we ever have a war in africa. Egypt on the otehr hand might be hindu, but at least is not buddhist. They could both be decent (or quite good) allies.

3. LOOK AT THAT DEFICIT! We need more cottages, mine the gold and silver and work it, anything we can to get more gold. OB to get trade routes to other cities. Try to OB rome, vikings, carthage, egypt, shaka, ireland, and asoka. Everyone but russia.

4. The library thing is new to me, must be BTS. But i think we can get that done. We will have 7 cities once we capture chinook.

5. CHINOOK. The barbarians named their city after a helicopter. They must be time travelers. Well that was going to be the spot of our next city, so we might as well take it shouldnt we? It will probably be POP 2 by the time we get an offensive force together. If its not, then we let it grow to that level. We have a swordsmen being built in london, and i think more should be produced as well.

6. London. We should build as many swordsmen as possible here. After the initial one is done, build a galley, then continue with swordsmen. Whip if reaches 8 POP again.

7. Ravus-York. After the granary, spam workers. The first 3 after the initial one go to nottingham, the initial one stays at ravus. Whip it down 2 POP if it reaches 8 POP. After 4 workers build a christian monastary and temple in that order. The initial missionary we get should go to london. Once the temple is done (this is next administration by now) we get alot of missionaries from there. We should convert our entire empire, and at least one city in each otehr CIV we know.

8. In Iberia, put a pasture on those horses, farm the wheat, then mine every hill you can find. Production is a must there. Workes in France should spam cottages there. Everywhere. MAYBE 1 or 2 farms if theres space in the budget. In Iberia, once that silver becomes available, mine it and connect it. The same with the gold. No more settlers are to be put here.

9. Get cities to work as many sea tiles, or any other tiles that have commerce, as they can.

10. LH-Can we get a picture of germany? It looks like borders expanded again in rome, so we might not sneak another settler in there. Just a quick picture.

11. What are the battle odds for the attackj on Chinook? We might not need offensive units for it.

12. Are we at war with peter and ragnar or not? We need confirmation on that.

13. Do we know anything about scandinavia? Has Ragnar taken it over completely or is there still a gap for a city there?

14. Convert to christianity. Its our religion. So lets openly adopt it. Spread it to shaka too as mentioned above.

Great job by the way. Must have taken quite a bit of micromanagement, and your iniative with london was great.
 
Wait... but if we wait a bit, they might decide to attack Rome first...

Ravus's teachings have paid off!! We have established the true English religion! So great that the calendar is now dated from its founding!! But we should hold off on founding it until we can spread it; you sign the OB deals yet?

EDIT: If we adopt Christianity now, it'll send all our foreign relations down the toilet.
Chinook is actually a Northwest Pacific Native American Tribe
For the library thing, sir, I must respectfully disagree. I thought the whole plan right now was to prepare for war? We have plenty of time before the renaissance when we could complete it.

And our 2000th post was sometime ago!!!!!! I think we might be the largest thread on the entire site now!!!!!
 
Unlurk

Nice on the 1ad Christianity like Mathnerd said. That religion will open up some options for us. Looks like Shaka somehow managed to get confucianism! So if we'd tried to research that religion ourselves we never would have got it in time.

It's good meeting some foreign players that arn't buddist.

Unless this is only half of Ayra's plan people will need all the usual stuff yet again. tech screen, map of the land, trading screen, etc. Although this time we could also do with a military layout to see the amount of troops.

Which civics are we now in? that screen would be useful as well so that we can see and people can talk about the religious options.

It was once said "We've had 30 pages of you Cull. It's time for a change."

Well now we've had 40 pages of the ayra administration and only gotten halfway through the term. it's getting ridiculous as most of the posts are spam or double posts when someone could have edited the one before.

Lurk
 
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