Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[Lighthearter]

Watching debate - Ah, I love my job . . . . I get to watch you guys rant at each other all day while eating cookies and playing Batman games. Fun.

I'll play the turnset tomorrow unless anyone objects.

- Lighthearter

 

[arya126]

Ravus there are a few problems with that post.

First, you seem to misunderstand my war pla. I can send you a copy if you like. But i havent posted it even close to its entirety, only things here and there that are included. After antium we will indeed wait for reinforcements, unless one of the 2 next target cities are VERY lightly defended, whereas LH would take the iniative. Please dont try and accuse us of stuff, whne you dont know the full picture.

There was only one trireme in the screenshot that i saw, unless i missed one. Ill check. You may be right.

It depends on the principle on which those actions were done. I had my reasons, many of which are still un-revealed, and dont ask for them cause you wont get them. These people, well their reason is that they are anti-war and that is something we will not stand for. They are coming close to supporting Rome while we are at war with them, which is something i can all agree is wrong. I am (in RL so it carries over to here, even if its a game) strongly supportive of anyone who goes to war, which i plan to do myslef when i am older, or does something similarly dangerous, for their country, family, or other cause that i consider justified. A patriotic soldier that died in the war, and people protesting at his funeral, well that is plain wrong. I hope they face the death penalty. Let field Marcshal Arya do it himself. That man served under him in the field.

So if the principle is right, then i consider the action justified, and in my opinion should be above the law. The problem is that in RL, or in the game for that matter, there is no system to make sure this isnt abused, and different opinions would differ on principles. So its a moot point to be honest, except in understanding how i think.

 

[Sonereal]

*without even reading the past...20 pages at least*

Well, I'm back unofficially tonight and officially tomorrow. Just giving a heads up and I'll be stopping by the Chatrooms tomorrow to, well, see what the hell is going on.

Seriously, all I've made out in my brief glimpses (very brief) is a Nappa joke (nananana Ghost Nappa!) and Fred Phelps. Mind you, I just read the last 20 or so posts (not pages because that's insane).

 

[arya126]

Watching debate - Ah, I love my job . . . . I get to watch you guys rant at each other all day while eating cookies and playing Batman games. Fun.

I'll play the turnset tomorrow unless anyone objects.

- Lighthearter

I dontknow if there will be rants, or major ones at least, in my AAR. Most of them are either A) started by me, B) continued by me, C) instigated by me, or D) helped in some way by me. And since i am GM in my AAR, it doesnt look like ill get any rants like over here.

BTW CULL- I need to do that turnset on PFR. Either find some time tomorow, or send me what you want me to look for in a spot to settle the cities and what direction to head in and such.

 

[Aysee]

Right. Just finished watching Sherlock Holmes, so...

Well, the diplo numbers look grim. (Its a dire sign when, Irish mongols nonwithstanding, our best friends are cautious with us) But chin up good friends, there's hope for England yet. Russia's a lost cause, so we just fall back to the "keep them off our throats for the time being" plan. Anyways, reconfigured foreign policy:

BEFRIEND:
1. Carthage
2. Viking
3. Egypt
4. India

And try to keep Russia happy. But within the bounds of reason. And not before the four.
----

Tech screen perhaps? Could be useful for trading purposes...

---

And as foreign minister, I support Whosit's plan for the Balkans. To make sure Russia doesn't get there first, make them attack Neapolis or something. (You know how to do that, right?)

-Aysee

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Yeah just heard they were still debating over some stuff. So:

On Code of Laws
If the law is Just then understanding is not required... only obiedience. Obedience to your lord. Obedience to your king. Obedience to your god.

We have not defined our penalties for breaking the law. Or what the law is.

Thus if we try these extremists then we can still have the death penalty or we can forcibly draft the leaders and send them of on a suicide mission deep into Roman terrirtory. On the legalities it depends on wether they have the right of protest? or free speach? or wether we are in a nation where speaking out against the government means death. I don't think we are a 70s cartoon villian so that cuts out most things. legally i'd say they were rioting so just slap them with enforced servitude for a few years. *shrug*

oh and with the roman cities revolting to us. Can we get them to pillage all the roman roads or other actions that would help before they do? Cut of roman forces taking them back.

EDIT: Then change the law, it's only just being developed. And are these views your own then? Have you read On War? As most of the big names state war and the military should be subserviant to the people. Otherwise it gets abused. you do get some idiots though who go to far in protesting at funerals and they should be banged up on charges. Depends on the law of the country. I outlined some responses above. *shrug*

 

[arya126]

NO! Neapolis is ours aysee. If someone makes them attack neapolis i will hunt them down in the game. I swear, why would we want russia in GERMANY, when poland is open to them? ReallY?

How about:

1. Egypt
2. India
3. Carthage

We wont get the vikings as they are in bed with peter. Dont even try. If russia declares war on us they wont be of any help, and if we declare on them they definitly wont be. Egypt is our best bet in my opinion, and india likes them as well so that would be a nice 3 way alliance, and they are both in areas that we dont have much interest in, but are in a position to help us if we are attacked.

Carthage may have good (should we just say they are one of the people that dont hate us?) realtions with us, but i still dont want them as an ally. Maybe vassalize them after a war, but they have valuable land under their control, especially if mali isnt in the game. But i really want that city in morocco so as to secure Iberia. Maybe a culture bomb from a future great artist to make the city revolt to us?

 

[arya126]

Yeah just heard they were still debating over some stuff. So:

On Code of Laws
If the law is Just then understanding is not required... only obiedience. Obedience to your lord. Obedience to your king. Obedience to your god.

We have not defined our penalties for breaking the law. Or what the law is.

Thus if we try these extremists then we can still have the death penalty or we can forcibly draft the leaders and send them of on a suicide mission deep into Roman terrirtory. On the legalities it depends on wether they have the right of protest? or free speach? or wether we are in a nation where speaking out against the government means death. I don't think we are a 70s cartoon villian so that cuts out most things. legally i'd say they were rioting so just slap them with enforced servitude for a few years. *shrug*

oh and with the roman cities revolting to us. Can we get them to pillage all the roman roads or other actions that would help before they do? Cut of roman forces taking them back.

First, we have no forces in the area. We are getting there though.

Should we really start a discussion on 'law'? You know thats just going to end up in rants, arguements, and maybe a fistfight. I just may go over the deep end because of something someone says on that. I have WIM in mind for the comment that will send me over the deep end. So can we please end this before it starts Ravus?

 

[Aysee]

Look, I don't want Russia to TAKE Neapolis, I just want to keep them away from the Balkans by sending them in the opposite direction. If you find another city that's less close to us, feel free to suggest it.

We want to be on the Viking's good side, because they have the potential to attack the British isles. We want to be allies with Carthage, because they have the potential to attack Iberia. Egypt would be good too, because then we'd have a strong southern ally-bloc to draw on in future wars. Oh yeah, we should try to convert Vikingdom soon. It doesn't matter that they are "in bed with Peter", so to speak, we want to draw them away from Russia so that if we go to war against Russia, it will be Peter not us who is fighting on two fronts. So try and convert them.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Okay, but the Copperheads are law breakers, not traitors or terrorists so technically they should be dropped in discussion as well. *shrug*

Oh and aparantly there is some pondering of naval matters. Could we not just gift Metal Casting to the irish as a lure into the war so that THEY will help defend the island nations? Just a thought as they are our only friend.

EDIT: Oh and on the coppers again, could we not exhile them like we did the irish? Theres icy islands in the north that no one wants because they are rubbish

 

[arya126]

Okay, but the Copperheads are law breakers, not traitors or terrorists so technically they should be dropped in discussion as well. *shrug*

Oh and aparantly there is some pondering of naval matters. Could we not just gift Metal Casting to the irish as a lure into the war so that THEY will help defend the island nations? Just a thought as they are our only friend.

It wont be worth it. The war is winding down. Think about hwo thinly manned the romans nearby cities like antium are. 3 units. That indicates that they are either running out, or are focusing on the eastern front, where they are still being driven back.

The copperheads are traitors. They say England brought this war upon them, and deserved it because of her arragance. Thats treason in my book.

 

[Cull]

Arya: Should have done today, bit I totally forgot. Whenever you get on tomorrow, we start the turn by turn thing. And lurking with interest. Won't take sides just yet.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

It wont be worth it. The war is winding down. Think about hwo thinly manned the romans nearby cities like antium are. 3 units. That indicates that they are either running out, or are focusing on the eastern front, where they are still being driven back.

The copperheads are traitors. They say England brought this war upon them, and deserved it because of her arragance. Thats treason in my book.

You make a good point. Their actions have made it harder to make war with Rome. They must be traitors... lets give them high ranking posts in the military then. After all thats what happened when you took traitoress actions against the government when it was trying to plan the war

Yes but i'm trying to point out that the isles would be more easily defended both now and in the future with a ally.

I still state that exile would work. Perhaps in the north where they could be easily defended and they could be nice and happy in their isolation.

 

[arya126]

Ravus, i have already said that we idffer on principle. My principles were different than what their principles are. The action doesnt matter. The reason, the principle behind the action, is what should be judged. Not the action itself.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

intentions are variable as people all think in different ways. A Religious fanatic might think he is saving your immortal soul with his actions. His intentions would be just in his mind yet to some others they would be horrific.

Here is the copperhead mentality laid out:
"My children died in the sacking of Ravus-York. Now that we have it back the killing and grief at the loss of life can end. I'll go talk to these people at the army funeral, they too will understand, they must do, they too have lost a child to this sensless violence! Why won't they understand? They must enjoy the killing! They must have wanted the war to continue so more blood could be shed! The animals! Why won't they just let us have peace! Why must they kill more!" >Enter riot

-

It's pretty simple. If you want i can go change their minds for the admin. But obviously i wouldn't do it for free. It shouldn't be too hard i have three ways of stopping them allready with minimal bloodshed

 

[arya126]

intentions are variable as people all think in different ways. A Religious fanatic might think he is saving your immortal soul with his actions. His intentions would be just in his mind yet to some others they would be horrific.

Here is the copperhead mentality laid out:
"My children died in the sacking of Ravus-York. Now that we have it back the killing and grief at the loss of life can end. I'll go talk to these people at the army funeral, they too will understand, they must do, they too have lost a child to this sensless violence! Why won't they understand? They must enjoy the killing! They must have wanted the war to continue so more blood could be shed! The animals! Why won't they just let us have peace! Why must they kill more!" >Enter riot

-

It's pretty simple. If you want i can go change their minds for the admin. But obviously i wouldn't do it for free. It shouldn't be too hard i have three ways of stopping them allready with minimal bloodshed

And what gives you the right to either make their mentality, or change it? Only LH, the GM of the game, has that power. So your post is obsolete.

Im off to bed. Dont worry, ill make a VERY long rant about this crap tomorow.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

And what gives you the right to either make their mentality, or change it? Only LH, the GM of the game, has that power. So your post is obsolete.

Im off to bed. Dont worry, ill make a VERY long rant about this crap tomorow.

I think you've lost the plot my dear fellow. I'm not making the mentality i'm showing how the mentality of a real life person in that situation would think. It's pretty simple.

And changing it isn't too hard. Just need to know their current state, which has been shown allready, know where they are, england and iberia, and plot out a course of actions that would shock them into wanting war. Again, simple enough once you lay out the neccesary steps.

 

[Aysee]

Don't have a lot of time. Anyways:

FOREIGN POLICY: I already laid out who to befriend. Sign OB with Hannibal. That should get him up to pleased. Try to convert Viking ASAP. And Hannibal. And Egypt when there's time. I need the tech screen before coming up with anything more.

 

[arya126]

I think you've lost the plot my dear fellow. I'm not making the mentality i'm showing how the mentality of a real life person in that situation would think. It's pretty simple.

And changing it isn't too hard. Just need to know their current state, which has been shown allready, know where they are, england and iberia, and plot out a course of actions that would shock them into wanting war. Again, simple enough once you lay out the neccesary steps.

Yes, but changing it isnt under your control. You cant change an event, or add one, only LH can do that, so only LH can change their mentality. Who knows, maybe LH was thinking of some different mentality in the first place. So dont mess with things you shouldnt Ravus.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Um wasn't that only an agreement you made with the admin to be let in? The whole Arya can't make opposition actions.

I'm pretty sure we've both altered events before then. Me in scotland liverpool with the buddists and yourself with the defence of Arya-Nottingham.

Remember like i showed ages ago opposition actions don't have to be to the detriment of the nation entirely. It would be easy to do something involving the copperheads that would HAVE to change their opinions in some way. I could secretly replace the leader with my own lookalike agent or perhaps stir up unrest against them from the rest of the englishmen so they have to be exhiled because no one wants them here.

I assume this is what you are trying to say but i've honestly lost track of what you are trying to argue... It seems like you are just trying to tell me to leave everything alone but i can't be sure *shrug*

i'm offski's anyway.

toodle pip, cheerio' and what not