Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR
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Whosit
Entropic Knight
Be careful when you say "whatever the cost." If taken literally, that may mean that you're willing to win the battle but lose the war. What if the cost of retaking Ireland is Britain itself? Is it still worth it?
Just being the hypothetical devil's advocate here...
Just being the hypothetical devil's advocate here...
Twinkletoes89
Warlord
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- Sep 8, 2010
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As leader of the Party to Restore Sanity, I think that we do need to exact some punishment on Peter for his support of ilduce - but we must not get carried away.
Taking back New Horizons for the Khan would be the main issue. We made commitments to the Khan when we gave him asylum and we are not a country who breaks their word. Those rampant imperialists who see Ireland as ours for the taking will cause us more trouble than its worth.
I think it would then be worthwhile to try and move for peace with Peter after that given the distance maintenance costs, plus they would be hard to reinforce without a secure supply line.
The surgical strike on Scandinavia makes sense and (in the spirit of my party) is fundamentally sane. I throw my support behind that invasion as long as I see sound plans in place before hand. Also, securing the Scandinavian land would give us a much better supply line for any further conflict on Russia.
The party supports war if it is for the right reasons and is properly planned, but it will staunchly oppose all measures by those who's arguments are based on blatant jingoism.
So basically, lets stick to the original ideas but only bleed Peter slightly with the recapture of Ireland for the Khan! Blame the rest on ilduce
Taking back New Horizons for the Khan would be the main issue. We made commitments to the Khan when we gave him asylum and we are not a country who breaks their word. Those rampant imperialists who see Ireland as ours for the taking will cause us more trouble than its worth.
I think it would then be worthwhile to try and move for peace with Peter after that given the distance maintenance costs, plus they would be hard to reinforce without a secure supply line.
The surgical strike on Scandinavia makes sense and (in the spirit of my party) is fundamentally sane. I throw my support behind that invasion as long as I see sound plans in place before hand. Also, securing the Scandinavian land would give us a much better supply line for any further conflict on Russia.
The party supports war if it is for the right reasons and is properly planned, but it will staunchly oppose all measures by those who's arguments are based on blatant jingoism.
So basically, lets stick to the original ideas but only bleed Peter slightly with the recapture of Ireland for the Khan! Blame the rest on ilduce
Point
Whatever the cost in our international relationships and britsih lives, but not territory or technology or infrastructure or national security or the NHS
the list goes on.
It was mainly for dramatic affect stirring speeches and all that
OOC Edit: Aww
You're talking the fun out of my religious rantings TT
I'm trying to make the game interesting without sabatoges and trechary and that, so I picked an extreme viewpoint and ran with it. The Religious mumblings part of the fun. I don't expect this view to be taken seriously, i'm just enjoying some roleplaying
I completely agree we need sound plans before we attack, but to me a lot of the appeal of this game is doing stupid things for IC reasons and not feeling like a complete idiot and immidiately reloading when it all goes pear shaped.
Of course the internal political system looks to be pretty fun to
DT
Crusader for the Cause
Whatever the cost in our international relationships and britsih lives, but not territory or technology or infrastructure or national security or the NHS
the list goes on.It was mainly for dramatic affect stirring speeches and all that
OOC Edit: Aww
You're talking the fun out of my religious rantings TT
I'm trying to make the game interesting without sabatoges and trechary and that, so I picked an extreme viewpoint and ran with it. The Religious mumblings part of the fun. I don't expect this view to be taken seriously, i'm just enjoying some roleplaying
I completely agree we need sound plans before we attack, but to me a lot of the appeal of this game is doing stupid things for IC reasons and not feeling like a complete idiot and immidiately reloading when it all goes pear shaped.
Of course the internal political system looks to be pretty fun to
DT
Crusader for the Cause
Whosit
Entropic Knight
@TT: Recall that New Horizons is the new Russian capital. Some of your arguments don't hold up under this fact. Does that change things?
Captain Fargle
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2009
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- 544
You're far too conservative Twinkle. Peter has a been a thorn in our side and a pain in the ass for far too long. If we go to war with him it shouldn't just be for liberating Ireland, but also to finish him. Forever.
Indeed. The heretical Russians have claimed as their own the lands of our riteous allies. God Frwons on such behaviour against his devout followers, and it is our Divine task to ensure this state of affairs cannot continue. To this end we Must
OOC: If the island stuff is getting on your nerves tell me and i'll stop. I don't want to ruin things
DT
Crusader for the Blessed Cause of England
Edit: I am happy to let the Khan have Ireland, it's his land, but he must accept the authority of Pope Ravus as God's voice, and Obey the rulings of the Divinely elected PM of England, who is placed in his position by the hand of God, often through the seemingly unscrulptios machinations of his Servant Ravus Sol
OOC: become our vassal
Also, The civics i favour are: Police state, nationalism, Emancipation, SP/Enviro, and THEOCRACY, religion is Obviosly Christianity
OOC: If the island stuff is getting on your nerves tell me and i'll stop. I don't want to ruin things
DT
Crusader for the Blessed Cause of England
Edit: I am happy to let the Khan have Ireland, it's his land, but he must accept the authority of Pope Ravus as God's voice, and Obey the rulings of the Divinely elected PM of England, who is placed in his position by the hand of God, often through the seemingly unscrulptios machinations of his Servant Ravus Sol
OOC: become our vassal
Also, The civics i favour are: Police state, nationalism, Emancipation, SP/Enviro, and THEOCRACY, religion is Obviosly Christianity
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
Don't be sad, WIM! I'm leftist too!!! (Even though that's not much consolation.)
mechaerik
Tuturuu!
I still heavily support retaking Ireland. Of course, I still think we should keep the Emerald Isle for ourselves. I still consider it rightfully British. The rest of Ireland can be given to Kublai as a vassal if he so desires. Also, I agree that Peter has becomne too dangerous. We must wage war to defend ourselves before he becomes powerful enough to become a true threat.
OOC: Whatever happened to Cull? He hasn't posted in a while.
OOC: Whatever happened to Cull? He hasn't posted in a while.
Whosit
Entropic Knight
I believe that Cull has dropped out due to lack of time.
At least he didn't go on a terrorist spree. He is a shining example to all.
If the Khan Agrees I support us keeping Ireland proper, but I would be suprised to see him agree. Perhaps we could say we would only secede his original territories, just Ireland, unless he agreed to let us keep it, in which case he could have all the northern Islands, and either complete freedom, or part of scandanavia. This would allow us to keep a base in Ireland, whilst having an ally in the otherwise useless islands to the north.
There is always the possibility of
ing him and leaving him nothing, but this is dishonouranble, and would reflect badly on our nation and it's Ideals/ Religion, and since God is perfect we should never portray him as anything but that.
And If we can get nothing from it then at least russian heresy will be swept from our doorstep, and Britain will once agian be under the rule of the English and their Decendant's.
DT
Crusader for the Cause
Edit: the Church is Happy to see Cull embracing it's teachings of peace and goodwill. To fellow Christians that is.
There is always the possibility of
ing him and leaving him nothing, but this is dishonouranble, and would reflect badly on our nation and it's Ideals/ Religion, and since God is perfect we should never portray him as anything but that.And If we can get nothing from it then at least russian heresy will be swept from our doorstep, and Britain will once agian be under the rule of the English and their Decendant's.
DT
Crusader for the Cause
Edit: the Church is Happy to see Cull embracing it's teachings of peace and goodwill. To fellow Christians that is.
Captain Fargle
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2009
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- 544
I will VERY forcefully oppose any inclinations in this Parliament towards anything happening to Ireland except returning it to the Khan.
Ireland is for the Khan and no-one else.
Ireland is for the Khan and no-one else.
Hello new peeps!
So, as Ravus and LH have stated, the negotiations with Catherine have been...lukewarm successes. And then she got shot. Oh well.
I think that we should take this Russian invasion as Casus Beli and declare war on Russia. Then declare on Viking because they're "the Russian's lackeys". I think that we should put together a strike force aided by the KRF to take Ireland first. Then we go on Ravus's war plan.
Now would be the perfect time to do so. We won't have to worry about invading Russia proper, because Saladin's doing our job for us. Ragnar's army is in India. The iron will never be hotter, and we must strike now!
And WIM, what about the English Socialist Party? Though I admit, it has drifted into the center under my leadership...
So, as Ravus and LH have stated, the negotiations with Catherine have been...lukewarm successes. And then she got shot. Oh well.
I think that we should take this Russian invasion as Casus Beli and declare war on Russia. Then declare on Viking because they're "the Russian's lackeys". I think that we should put together a strike force aided by the KRF to take Ireland first. Then we go on Ravus's war plan.
Now would be the perfect time to do so. We won't have to worry about invading Russia proper, because Saladin's doing our job for us. Ragnar's army is in India. The iron will never be hotter, and we must strike now!
And WIM, what about the English Socialist Party? Though I admit, it has drifted into the center under my leadership...
OOC: I tend to Agree. If I can get Ireland legally then I'll take it, but I doubt this will happen, particularly considering why it is independant in the first Place. If I was the Khan I wouldn't give it up for anything, and If he want's to keep it he's welcome to it as far as i'm concerned. I'll get as much out of him as I can, but I will let him keep it.
IC: I'm more concerned with removing the Russians, not only heathens but hostile as well from striking range of the homeland. Under no Circumstances do I support Underhanded and dishonest actions, as they will reflect badly on us and God, and we lack allies as it is. The khan will be important in the struggle to come, provided he stays true to God I will be Happy to have such a worthy freind at our Side. My previous communication was pointing out all the options, and I hope it is quite clear I don't want that Nation going to anybody without the Khans permission. Dishonour on such a scale is unacceptable.
Even, especially the President must stay true to his ideals. Even if they are flawed Ideals, holding to them redeems one somewhat in the sight of God.
Whilst I support Taking as much as we can from the unbelievers it would be good to limit Saladin's strength somewhat by preventing him completely absorbing the Heart of Russia.
DT
Knight Crusader of the Holy Cause
IC: I'm more concerned with removing the Russians, not only heathens but hostile as well from striking range of the homeland. Under no Circumstances do I support Underhanded and dishonest actions, as they will reflect badly on us and God, and we lack allies as it is. The khan will be important in the struggle to come, provided he stays true to God I will be Happy to have such a worthy freind at our Side. My previous communication was pointing out all the options, and I hope it is quite clear I don't want that Nation going to anybody without the Khans permission. Dishonour on such a scale is unacceptable.
Even, especially the President must stay true to his ideals. Even if they are flawed Ideals, holding to them redeems one somewhat in the sight of God.
Whilst I support Taking as much as we can from the unbelievers it would be good to limit Saladin's strength somewhat by preventing him completely absorbing the Heart of Russia.
DT
Knight Crusader of the Holy Cause
Captain Fargle
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2009
- Messages
- 544
Wait, Catherine got shot?! When? I've clearly missed something.
It was during a meeting with Her, Ravus and Athers although I was lurking it
, just hours before I joined, It didn't look to good from what I understand.
She was on the verge of agreeing to help as well.
We don't know who did it, although we could look at the bullet to see if it is from a musket or a Rifle, and I have a few suspicions about it. Pretty certain it's not Ravus though, considering how things went.
DT
Crusader for the Cause
, just hours before I joined, It didn't look to good from what I understand. She was on the verge of agreeing to help as well.We don't know who did it, although we could look at the bullet to see if it is from a musket or a Rifle, and I have a few suspicions about it. Pretty certain it's not Ravus though, considering how things went.
DT
Crusader for the Cause
Twinkletoes89
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
- 174
I am conservative because I want to ensure that we do things properly and rationally.
I set up the Party to Restore Sanity to represent the moderate people who do support the glory of the empire but in a planned, progressive way.
I like to keep the balance to the debates we have. With the new guys so devout in their beliefs (which is good) - I feel responsibility to temper them somewhat.
Whosit, I don't see how my arguments don't hold because New Horizons is the Russian capital. Taking down the capital of Russia will be a big blow to Peter, especially after the loss of Moscow, and it also means that he has to transport his armies from further away if he wanted to continue the war.
Its the logical step, if not the most exciting or rabble-rousing. I am here to make sensible policy decisions and keep things sane, whether it wins me votes or not!
I set up the Party to Restore Sanity to represent the moderate people who do support the glory of the empire but in a planned, progressive way.
I like to keep the balance to the debates we have. With the new guys so devout in their beliefs (which is good) - I feel responsibility to temper them somewhat.
Whosit, I don't see how my arguments don't hold because New Horizons is the Russian capital. Taking down the capital of Russia will be a big blow to Peter, especially after the loss of Moscow, and it also means that he has to transport his armies from further away if he wanted to continue the war.
Its the logical step, if not the most exciting or rabble-rousing. I am here to make sensible policy decisions and keep things sane, whether it wins me votes or not!
@TT-It may not be a great idea to expand into russia but the russian heathens apear doomed now, particularly should we oust them from New Horizens. We do not want the Arabic barbarians gaining control of to much russian territory, we would be swapping one foe for another, more dangerous one. Better we take the cities from the crumbling dirt bank that is the russian kingdom than be forced to tear down a Citadel of Arabia.
We must not allow the Arabs scum to become more powerfull than the Chosen English and so we should prevent their anexxation of Russia if at all possible. We will succed by the grace of God if we seize the initiative, his divine wisdom will see us through.
Heed well the words of the Great Prophet Ravus.
DT
Crusader and Guardian Of the Rightious
We must not allow the Arabs scum to become more powerfull than the Chosen English and so we should prevent their anexxation of Russia if at all possible. We will succed by the grace of God if we seize the initiative, his divine wisdom will see us through.
Heed well the words of the Great Prophet Ravus.
DT
Crusader and Guardian Of the Rightious
Whosit
Entropic Knight
I may have misread, but I thought you said some things about New Horizons requiring lots of maintenance. Whether or not it's far from his current supply lines is unclear to me. In any case, I'm pretty sure my comment was irrelevant.
MathNerd
High on math (a, not e)
He says its because he has some NES orders way overdue and he's to lazy to do them, hence he can't log on unless he wants to be yelled at. He claims.
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