Red Dwarf Mafia: The Smeggening [Game Thread - Concluded]

[Zack]

Okay Jerrema. You're under some pressure and choose, for the most part not to respond to it. Instead, you vote al, whom only I have really tried to hammer. You claim the argument is better against him and, while I agree there is a strong case against him (more on that in a second), no one has made one recently so it's basically out of nowhere.

That being said, I'm still super sketchy on al. I won't forget the Snerk day kill and the fact that he is vaguely begging people to visit him seems pointless to me. If he's town why does he need people to visit him? Especially when he makes it sound like he just had the best date of his life? There has to be some really good reason for town to visit him if it means using a night of their actions.

You basically just copy-pasted spaceman's arguments, votes, and suspicions here.

Goshdang, I should've just skipped to page 7.

For now, I'll go Legato. While I've never banked heavily on the vote switch = scum approach, I do see the value in threatening to lynch multiple people. I highly recommend someone to put one of these four people over to see what comes out.

And guess who started the Legato wagon? spaceman98. You must really like him.

 

[Zack]

Blade, you threw out four names you are getting scum reads from, why?

remake, you threw out Cuth's name as getting scum vibes from him, why?

 

[remake20]

Cause spaceman is bae

But seriously, explain to me how I copied him? Yes, I voted for Jarrema with him and yes we threw out some of the same names, but if people are being at least slightly scummy in thread, shouldn't multiple people feel sketchy about them?

Speaking of which, most of the solid evidence against Cuth has been presented already in regards to scum partners and such. My scum vibes are just scum vibes. He's posted some legit things here and there, but he very well could be hunting the other scum team. This lack of total conviction is why I'm hesitant to vote for him. He's definitely at the bottom of my list.

 

[Zack]

spaceman has been tunneling Jarrema and as far as I can tell he's the only person who seriously suggested Al killed Snerk. It's an odd combination for your top two suspects, considering the arguments for them are so weak. It's uncanny for you to follow spaceman so frequently, particularly when his cases have not been especially popular.

 

[Zack]

Can you give more info on your stolen ability? Has anyone else had their ability stolen?

 

[remake20]

Space made next to no case against Al before I came forward. I had a one time ability where I could target someone and no night actions would affect them. I got a PM at the end of night two saying I no longer had my ability charge. That was litterally it. It was one sentence, no explanation, no nothing.

 

[spaceman98]

spaceman has been tunneling Jarrema and as far as I can tell he's the only person who seriously suggested Al killed Snerk. It's an odd combination for your top two suspects, considering the arguments for them are so weak. It's uncanny for you to follow spaceman so frequently, particularly when his cases have not been especially popular.

how are my arguments weak? Your continuously asserting this, but you've yet to refute them

 

[landlubber]

I'm getting townie vibes from Cuth today. The wagon on him is really popular, but he hasn't seemed especially panicky or flinchy. I'm also still inclined to think that Winston's town. Luizeu's perceived distancing doesn't really do it for me, because I'm not seeing tells in any of Winston's behavior.
Remake jumps out at me over the rest. He's trying to diminish Zack's questions instead of addressing them head-on (he still hasn't really talked about the similarities between his and spaceman's logic on Jarrema), which isn't what I'd expect from a townie.

 

[Cuthillius]

how are my arguments weak? Your continuously asserting this, but you've yet to refute them

All you've said about Al so far is that you think he might have OMGUS killed Snerk.

 

[Cuthillius]

Well, so much for that line of thought on Xym...

I'm still pretty that either Jarrema or Cuthillius is mafia, much more Cut than Jarrema.

Vote: Cuthillius

Little reasoning.

But he's still pretty. So that's good.

Well that clears Xym from a very dodgy looking bus yesterday.



That whole post just seems so fishy to me. Why did you not vote yesterday, DoubleA?

If we look at the voting it tells a tale. I think that the wolves would not risk swaying the vote to Jarrema as it is too obvious, if Luiz was revealed later then his saviour is #1 suspect. The best way is to increase the pool of ppl who face the lynch and hope RNG saves your team. In this case the 2 late votes from Townie Xym and Jarrema who understandably wanted to save himself put the result beyond doubt. Newlyn(mason claim with dead guy!!) voted Sprig and Al Sipscar voted in Cuth, at this point there were 4 ppl tied at 3 apiece for the lynch.

Newlyn is undoubtedly the partner of Luiz along with Al Sips.

Undoubtedly? That's awful decisive, but I see this as more of a townie thing. Scum tend to guard their mouths a bit more.

Why Al? I like Al.

This is strange. Why Al, I see, but "I like Al"?

Our late leader suspected Cuthillius on D2.

Like I said, terrible reasoning.

It is very weak argument. Our late leader was town member, after all, therefore he did not have any significant secret knowledge.
I will say that arguments against you are stronger, Al Sipsclar

This is not bad. Reads town to me. Basically what I said, but a different way of looking at it.

I really should have realized just how scummy Luizeu was.

Him being a wolf also gives me town reads on like ten of my suspects, and very few wolf reads. But there's a couple; the late Takhisis vote suggests Luizeu had allies he was trying not to give reads about, and:

this separates Cuthilius out from Pouter Pigeon and me, while none of us had votes.

Then from Cuthilius, we have:

Shallow analysis like Double A mentioned Luizeu using, and he's the only person to refer to my PM apart from Luizeu and Takhisis.

A question about how people feel about Luizeu. Can't see what prompted it.

Got to go with Cuthilius today.

Winston specifically called out Sprig and Luizeu for low activity. I already pointed out that it's interesting he only mentioned those two by name in his post, as there were several other people who were equally quiet at the time. Afterwards, Luizeu started posting more ("how do you feel about Luiz now, Winston?"), which makes the whole thing feel like Winston was trying to push his partner to post more so that when Winston made the later post calling out all the low-posters, hopefully Luizeu wouldn't be there. Notice how there is no discernible ordering system at work here, and Luizeu is listed last, almost as an afterthought.


This feels pretty weak, like a distancing tactic rather than genuine suspicion. He doesn't actually articulate whether or not this makes Winston looks bad. If anything, it seems like Luiz is not accusing Winston so much as defending himself (you're a hypocrite so your argument is invalid vs. you're a hypocrite and that makes you suspicious).

I think at least one of Winston and Cuthilius (who Internet Flea makes a good argument for) is partners with Luizeu.

This was certainly my “problem”



I’ll go along with this and vote: Winston for now.

Here's the thing:

Why did Luiz vote for Takhisis, rather than Cuth or Jarrema?

In other words, why didn't Luiz try to save himself from the lynch as Jarrema did?

The only explanation I can think of is that one of Cuthillius or Jarrema is Luiz's scumpartner, and Luiz didn't want to incriminate them by voting for their rival, or potentially push them into the lead by voting for them.

Jarrema's last-minute switch to Luiz pushed him into the lead (though confirmed-by-death townie Xym finished it off). However, that could just as easily be bussing.

Cuthillius has contributed more overall, even if his analysis has been rather vague at times.

Regardless, at least one of them is the scum we are looking for.

I find vote: Jarrema's overall record to be more questionable. So I say we lynch him today, and if he flips town, we lynch Cuthillius tomorrow.

I'd also be fine with lynching Cuthillius today, and if he flips town, Jarrema tomorrow.

This has to be one of the laziest votes of all time. Voting an semi-active under reason of inactivity while you yourself are inactive, saying you'll say more later, just to make it look like you're saying something.

FoS: Autolycus

Autolycus: What do you want to hear?

I'll vote Cuthillius for now.

Okay Jerrema. You're under some pressure and choose, for the most part not to respond to it. Instead, you vote al, whom only I have really tried to hammer. You claim the argument is better against him and, while I agree there is a strong case against him (more on that in a second), no one has made one recently so it's basically out of nowhere.

That being said, I'm still super sketchy on al. I won't forget the Snerk day kill and the fact that he is vaguely begging people to visit him seems pointless to me. If he's town why does he need people to visit him? Especially when he makes it sound like he just had the best date of his life? There has to be some really good reason for town to visit him if it means using a night of their actions.

Zack, you do give a pretty good case against Winston, definitely worth checking in to. Cuth gives me scum vibes too, but I don't feel like there's enough evidence to put him above others today.

I'm getting townie vibes from Cuth today. The wagon on him is really popular, but he hasn't seemed especially panicky or flinchy. I'm also still inclined to think that Winston's town. Luizeu's perceived distancing doesn't really do it for me, because I'm not seeing tells in any of Winston's behavior.
Remake jumps out at me over the rest. He's trying to diminish Zack's questions instead of addressing them head-on (he still hasn't really talked about the similarities between his and spaceman's logic on Jarrema), which isn't what I'd expect from a townie.

Collection of votes, need to go so no analysis on most will return and do so.

 

[spaceman98]

unvote

I've received info that falsifies my suspicion of Jarrema.

Will review the thread further when I have more time

 

[Cuthillius]

I really should have realized just how scummy Luizeu was.

Him being a wolf also gives me town reads on like ten of my suspects, and very few wolf reads. But there's a couple; the late Takhisis vote suggests Luizeu had allies he was trying not to give reads about, and:

this separates Cuthilius out from Pouter Pigeon and me, while none of us had votes.

Then from Cuthilius, we have:

Shallow analysis like Double A mentioned Luizeu using, and he's the only person to refer to my PM apart from Luizeu and Takhisis.

A question about how people feel about Luizeu. Can't see what prompted it.

Got to go with Cuthilius today.

Responded to this. It's a pretty good vote, compared to many of the others.

Winston specifically called out Sprig and Luizeu for low activity. I already pointed out that it's interesting he only mentioned those two by name in his post, as there were several other people who were equally quiet at the time. Afterwards, Luizeu started posting more ("how do you feel about Luiz now, Winston?"), which makes the whole thing feel like Winston was trying to push his partner to post more so that when Winston made the later post calling out all the low-posters, hopefully Luizeu wouldn't be there. Notice how there is no discernible ordering system at work here, and Luizeu is listed last, almost as an afterthought.


This feels pretty weak, like a distancing tactic rather than genuine suspicion. He doesn't actually articulate whether or not this makes Winston looks bad. If anything, it seems like Luiz is not accusing Winston so much as defending himself (you're a hypocrite so your argument is invalid vs. you're a hypocrite and that makes you suspicious).

I think at least one of Winston and Cuthilius (who Internet Flea makes a good argument for) is partners with Luizeu.

This is a very good vote. Not sure if I agree, Winston reads town for me, but well-thought out and explained.

This was certainly my “problem”



I’ll go along with this and vote: Winston for now.

Aaand then there's this. I am not impressed.

Here's the thing:

Why did Luiz vote for Takhisis, rather than Cuth or Jarrema?

In other words, why didn't Luiz try to save himself from the lynch as Jarrema did?

The only explanation I can think of is that one of Cuthillius or Jarrema is Luiz's scumpartner, and Luiz didn't want to incriminate them by voting for their rival, or potentially push them into the lead by voting for them.

Jarrema's last-minute switch to Luiz pushed him into the lead (though confirmed-by-death townie Xym finished it off). However, that could just as easily be bussing.

Cuthillius has contributed more overall, even if his analysis has been rather vague at times.

Regardless, at least one of them is the scum we are looking for.

I find vote: Jarrema's overall record to be more questionable. So I say we lynch him today, and if he flips town, we lynch Cuthillius tomorrow.

I'd also be fine with lynching Cuthillius today, and if he flips town, Jarrema tomorrow.

Or Luiz was just messing with us.

Beyond those of us in the "I Need more" tier, I'd like to hear some more from Murska. I feel like his eight posts haven't said much more than my three. I'll have more thoughts later.

This is a pretty weak vote, but I'll admit it has reasoning behind it.

This has to be one of the laziest votes of all time. Voting an semi-active under reason of inactivity while you yourself are inactive, saying you'll say more later, just to make it look like you're saying something.

FoS: Autolycus

Absolutely could be scum vote, might not be. Still making a valid point.

Autolycus: What do you want to hear?

I'll vote Cuthillius for now.

No reasoning, but responding to people asking what they want. I did this and was never replied to.

Okay Jerrema. You're under some pressure and choose, for the most part not to respond to it. Instead, you vote al, whom only I have really tried to hammer. You claim the argument is better against him and, while I agree there is a strong case against him (more on that in a second), no one has made one recently so it's basically out of nowhere.

That being said, I'm still super sketchy on al. I won't forget the Snerk day kill and the fact that he is vaguely begging people to visit him seems pointless to me. If he's town why does he need people to visit him? Especially when he makes it sound like he just had the best date of his life? There has to be some really good reason for town to visit him if it means using a night of their actions.

Zack, you do give a pretty good case against Winston, definitely worth checking in to. Cuth gives me scum vibes too, but I don't feel like there's enough evidence to put him above others today.

Valid reasoning, but as Zack pointed out you're just echoing spaceman. Saying Zack's case is "worth checking into" means nothing. Either check into it, or ignore it.

I'm getting townie vibes from Cuth today. The wagon on him is really popular, but he hasn't seemed especially panicky or flinchy. I'm also still inclined to think that Winston's town. Luizeu's perceived distancing doesn't really do it for me, because I'm not seeing tells in any of Winston's behavior.
Remake jumps out at me over the rest. He's trying to diminish Zack's questions instead of addressing them head-on (he still hasn't really talked about the similarities between his and spaceman's logic on Jarrema), which isn't what I'd expect from a townie.

Again, pretty good reasoning, solid vote.

After looking over these, I'm going to poke BSmith, as another option and someone we really haven't heard from as much as we should. I've not really been impressed by many of his posts. Can collect them if you'd like.

 

[Cuthillius]

unvote

I've received info that falsifies my suspicion of Jarrema.

Will review the thread further when I have more time

At this time of day?

That means either someone told you, with proof, that Jarrema is town, or you scried and didn't realize you got the answer.

Care to tell us?

 

[spaceman98]

At this time of day?

That means either someone told you, with proof, that Jarrema is town, or you scried and didn't realize you got the answer.

Care to tell us?

No.

(I'd rather keep the wolves guessing)

 

[Double A]

About last night: that was ... amazing. Will you call again? PM me.

Seriously, guys, when was the last time an ability copier was scum? fos: everyone voting for Al

Now, maybe he's third party, in which case, we could probably work with him. However, it sounds like he can't copy a kill, so I can't see how he's not town.

Winston specifically called out Sprig and Luizeu for low activity. I already pointed out that it's interesting he only mentioned those two by name in his post, as there were several other people who were equally quiet at the time. Afterwards, Luizeu started posting more ("how do you feel about Luiz now, Winston?"), which makes the whole thing feel like Winston was trying to push his partner to post more so that when Winston made the later post calling out all the low-posters, hopefully Luizeu wouldn't be there. Notice how there is no discernible ordering system at work here, and Luizeu is listed last, almost as an afterthought.


This feels pretty weak, like a distancing tactic rather than genuine suspicion. He doesn't actually articulate whether or not this makes Winston looks bad. If anything, it seems like Luiz is not accusing Winston so much as defending himself (you're a hypocrite so your argument is invalid vs. you're a hypocrite and that makes you suspicious).

I think at least one of Winston and Cuthilius (who Internet Flea makes a good argument for) is partners with Luizeu.

I've called out scumbuddies for inactivity before. It's not the easiest thing to notice when hunting for the mafia but it's a pretty good sign when you do see it.
vote: Winston

This has to be one of the laziest votes of all time. Voting an semi-active under reason of inactivity while you yourself are inactive, saying you'll say more later, just to make it look like you're saying something.

FoS: Autolycus

You're not wrong, choxy, but neither is Auto. Murska's incredibly measured when he's not quiet.

This is strange. Why Al, I see, but "I like Al"?

He's funny, reminds me of me (and, to preempt Tak, "yet somehow still funny"), and is obviously an ability copier. The only strange thing about him is why he didn't get NK'd. If he's scum, then the other team should've gone for his throat.

 

[Visorslash]

4 Cuthillius (Choxorn, Al Sips, Internet, Murska)
3 Winston (Zack, BSmith, Double A)
1 Newyn (King)
1 Al Sips (Jarrema)
1 Jarrema (remake)
1 Murska (Auto)
1 Remake (landlubber)
1 BSmith (Cuthill)

 

[Murska]

I'm always incredibly measured, I guess. And quiet.

I'm voting for Cuthillius mostly because I'm curious about the attempts at him earlier and today's wagon. Especially things like Zack who makes a new (and okay, though I don't really think it's that good) case against Winston in his post and then says 'either Cuthillius or Winston is probably a wolf' and votes for Winston when there's a wagon on Cuthillius. I'm not saying this definitely means anything, but it's interesting.

 

[Al Sipsclar]

So, I was scanned last night. Someone should probably know what exactly to do with that information. I can think of this: if the scanner claims either in the thread or to someone he or she trusts, and we make public the fact that someone claimed, and no one challenges that, then we'll have a confirmed scanner. If multiple scanners claim, the things will be more interesting.

I can also confirm another non-lethal ability if they visit me tonight. That is, if I survive the night.

 

[Autolycus]

I'm always incredibly measured, I guess. And quiet.
I'm voting for Cuthillius mostly because I'm curious about the attempts at him earlier and today's wagon. Especially things like Zack who makes a new (and okay, though I don't really think it's that good) case against Winston in his post and then says 'either Cuthillius or Winston is probably a wolf' and votes for Winston when there's a wagon on Cuthillius. I'm not saying this definitely means anything, but it's interesting.

This is more of what I'm looking for, and the confirmation that you're generally like this helps too. Murska.

Remake jumps out at me over the rest. He's trying to diminish Zack's questions instead of addressing them head-on (he still hasn't really talked about the similarities between his and spaceman's logic on Jarrema), which isn't what I'd expect from a townie.

This resonates with me, although the stuff Murska said about cuthilius does as well. Since we have some time, I'll put my vote on Remake for now, and I'll be back on this evening to either confirm or move my vote.

 

[Cuthillius]

If there's anyone village agrees is almost definitely town, I can claim to them by PM. If not, I will do so to Zack or Murska.