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[Religion and Revolution]: Feedback and Questions

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Religion and Revolution' started by raystuttgart, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    Germany
    This is neither a bug nor a graphic problem. All works well! Before you found the city the plot shows the generally possible production and after you have founded the city it shows the CURRENTLY possible production...you need to put in the city sheep, cattle or horses and then you will see the possible production in the city!
     
  2. stefmaster

    stefmaster Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Mackenrode, Germany
    This explanation is reasonable! :thanx:
     
  3. smallfry

    smallfry Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Reasonable, maybe. Logical, not so much.

    Say you have a city with an empty grassland lot. That lot shows 4 food both on the map and on the city screen.
    Now you put a farmer inside the city (+3 food bonus). The graphics don't change.
    But now you have a possible food production as you can out the farmer on that lot.
    After you did that you see 7 food on the city screen but still 4 on the map.
    The same goes for everything but livestock.
    I wouldn't call it a bug but it certainly is a glitch.
    On the other hand livestock production is unique in that livestock must be in the city first in order to breed more. So it would be just as confusing to always show the theoretically possible production.

    It was always like that in TAC and, I believe, in Col vanilla.
    But that doesn't change the fact that the behaviour of both maps in respect to livestock is illogical, confusing and prone to questioning. Over the years I have seen quite a few similar posts about it.

    The only solution I see is to separate the two maps in that respect and show possible production without bonuses or preconditions on the map but including both on the city screen. But I guess that would be a lot of work for little gain.
     
  4. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    Germany
    Sorry, but it is absolutely logical. it isn't a bug and it is not a glitch. All works fine as it shall work. You just need to understand the logic behind that!

    On the map the general possible production is shown. As soon as you found a city you have completely changed conditions! In the city the general production and any potential production is shown as well. In case you use a farmer he will - of course - produce additional food which would not be possible on the map without the city (on the map one could say the possible basic production is shown). Why should it bee confusing to show the general possible production? This is one of the basic logics of the game. The player can see what GENERAL conditions he will get in case he founds a city at this position.

    And, again, sorry, but livestock is neither illogical, nor confusing.

    1. See on the map the general possible conditions for livestock production
    2. Found a city and bring the livestock you want into the city
    3. Use a colonist or specialist for production
    4. Produce and be happy.

    Very easy, very simple.
     
  5. Dan4GS

    Dan4GS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Messages:
    62
    Just discovered this recently...really impressed by all the work and think the team did an awesome job! This is what Colonization should have been from the start...definitely got me into "1 more turn..."

    Thank you all!

    Edit: Also, one question: is there a way to jump directly into R&R instead of opening vanilla, loading the mod, then waiting for the game to close/re-open as R&R?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018 at 11:42 AM
  6. Hecur

    Hecur Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    27
    Create a shortcut and then append in the first line: mod= Religion_and_Revolution
    So it looks like:
    "PathToColonization.exe" mod= Religion_and_Revolution
    save and enjoy
     
  7. Dan4GS

    Dan4GS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Messages:
    62
    Thanks!
     
  8. smallfry

    smallfry Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Apparently I haven't made myself clear, so I'll try again.

    In order to produce something you must meet certain conditions:
    1. an adjacent city
    2. cultural ruling over at least one tile within the city radius
    3. a unit in that city that can produce (i.e. not a settler militia)
    4. in case of livestock a store of livestock in that city

    Let's go through the cases:
    a) no city
    i. the map shows possible production (i.e. not including expert or building bonuses but including bonus resources and improvements)

    b) adjacent city with settler on a non-livestock tile (e.g. fisherman) , no livestock in store
    i. the map shows possible production with the exception of livestock production
    ii. the city screen shows possible production with the exception of livestock production

    c) adjacent city with settler on a livestock tile, no livestock in store
    i. the map shows possible production with the exception of livestock production
    ii. the city screen shows the actual production (which can't be livestock) including all bonuses

    d) adjacent city with settler on a non-livestock tile, livestock in store
    i. the map shows possible production including possible livestock production (dependent on # of livestock in city)
    ii. the city screen shows the actual production including all bonuses

    e) adjacent city with settler on a livestock tile, livestock in store
    i. the map shows possible production including possible livestock production (dependent on # of livestock in city)
    ii. the city screen shows the actual production including all bonuses

    In almost all cases the map shows the possible production as defined under a)i. and the city screen shows the possible production for empty tiles and the actual production for occupied tiles.
    The only exception are cases b) and c)i.

    Now you can argue that condition 4 is not met in these cases which is certainly correct.
    I also think that the city screen works logically as the production shown always includes all bonuses, in case of a unit present on the tile also that units bonuses.
    But the map ignores both abilities of units already working and building bonuses in all cases. So the map takes into account only conditions met independently of the city like bonus resources and improvements.
    But it usually ignores any special conditions that can only be satisfied through the city and the units present therein. The only exception to this logic is the # of livestock in store of the city.
    That's why I call the behavior of the map illogical in these cases.

    There is another glitch concerning livestock.
    Say you have a city with a rancher producing cattle. Citizen automation is turned off.
    Now you enter the city with a Wagon Train and load all cattle on the WT. The rancher is suddenly automized and put to produce something else.
    Now you realize your mistake and put the cattle back in store. The rancher stays automized and might return to ranching or not depending on the logic of Citizen Automation.
    If you do the same with any other good, e.g. wood, the carpenters stay where they are and just stop producing. If you restock they immediately produce again.
    Again, I would call the behavior of the ranchers illogical as it differs from any other profession for no apparent reason. This unique behavior also is a trap for the player as you might not notice that your ranchers have stopped producing just because you have mis-clicked while loading your WT.

    As to the latter part of your post, I don't see where I have said anything about the production of cattle being illogical or glitchy. I wouldn't call it "very simple" as again it is different to other goods but it is certainly straightforward.
     

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