Religious victory?

[embryodead]

You can also get the SVN version without installing SVN by downloading GNU tarball from http://sword-of-islam.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/sword-of-islam/ (the link at the bottom of the list). Just keep in mind it's a development version that changes several times a week, so it's for early testing only.

I'll address the URV topics later.

 

[Tigranes]

Re: # of Shia Imams. We cannot be too nitpicking, edead, particularly with the fixed number of of Imams. I suggest use 11 as total number of prophets settled in any Shia state. URVs should not feel like religiously flavored UHVs without deadline. If you introduce shared victory or team victory -- victory of the particular religion championed by the human player with that religion -- you can kill several birds with the same kamień :

1. No different URVs for Armenia/Georgia/Yemen/Fatimids, etc
2. New feeling about URV vs UHV ( "I hope those Bahmanids will settle that great Prophet", etc)
3. No need to debate the number of Imams in Shia religion, their date of birth and what it actually means to settle "immortal" great specialist in a city. Generic response is -- Imams are important in Shia tradition -- make sure Shia states preserve the legacy of at least 11 holy men .
4. Less need for conquests.

 

[embryodead]

@Tigranes
Kamień is rather out of place, since our version is to cook two meals by one fire Back on topic, incidentally, it works like you suggested from the beginning, both for Four Patriarchs and 11 Imams (which is why Opera posted he had 5 generated when he only generated 1). So it's down to removing the different URVs and fixing the Shia one (counting GP generation is much more efficient than counting all GPs on the map every turn though, but I'll see how slow that is).

 

[embryodead]

Latest URV changes with shared goals are up on SVN.

 

[Tigranes]

I am playtesting right now, and everything runs very smoothly. Relics really add an intrigue -- especially hidden ones. I don't get any random Relic in Greater Armenia after new patches -- is that intended? Just a little question -- once a AI player becomes friendly to you for Orthodox URv -- will you get a permanent check mark for him? I mean later AI leader can go back to pleased -- does it mean you need to win his love back yet again? Simillar question about Cathedrals -- if you built a Cathedral in Antioch and it gets destroyed -- do you need a cathedral there again?

 

[The Turk]

I tried to update SoI svn, but it said it was "already locked", and therefore I could not update it. Did you intentionally lock the svn updating for some reason?

 

[Tigranes]

It says "civilopedia & manual update" for me ...

 

[embryodead]

I am playtesting right now, and everything runs very smoothly. Relics really add an intrigue -- especially hidden ones. I don't get any random Relic in Greater Armenia after new patches -- is that intended?

Relics can still spawn in Armenia, but it's just one of many possible locations. The randomness may be unfair at times, as sometimes Constantinople or Jerusalem can get 2 relics, and sometimes none. But apart from random starting locations, there's also the AI which can haul relics from one place to another, and personally I frequently see relics being amassed in Constantinople, Dvin & Cairo.

Just a little question -- once a AI player becomes friendly to you for Orthodox URv -- will you get a permanent check mark for him? I mean later AI leader can go back to pleased -- does it mean you need to win his love back yet again? Simillar question about Cathedrals -- if you built a Cathedral in Antioch and it gets destroyed -- do you need a cathedral there again?

There's no marks - all conditions are tested every turn. Only after you reach the goal, it's marked as Completed permanently and you can forget about it. It can be particularly difficult with the Love And Another and Twelve Imams, but it's not easy to register some actions, especially settling a GP. I've seen the goal jump to 3/11 when Fatimids & Buyids where in power, and then go back to 0/11 when they collapsed. Alternatively, I can change it to "11 Great Saints generated by Shia civs", then it won't go up & down.

Any luck with trading relics in diplomacy?

 

[embryodead]

I tried to update SoI svn, but it said it was "already locked", and therefore I could not update it. Did you intentionally lock the svn updating for some reason?

Nope, I did nothing of this sort. Just try again. If problem persist then maybe try to update your Tortoise (I did recently).

 

[Tigranes]

Seljuks granted Armenia peace for the Beard

 

[Tigranes]

There's no marks - all conditions are tested every turn.

I think that's the reason I could not win that I wonder who will post the first URV win on Monarch... Can we at least preserve Cathedrals when one trades a city or even loses it to the enemy. Even mongols did not destroy that many cathedrals... Religious buildings should get destroyed just like any other building. Only persecution should remove them for sure...
Loving means that you should protect those who are friendly with you or they gonna collapse together with the friendship

 

[embryodead]

I think that's the reason I could not win that I wonder who will post the first URV win on Monarch... Can we at least preserve Cathedrals when one trades a city or even loses it to the enemy. Even mongols did not destroy that many cathedrals... Religious buildings should get destroyed just like any other building. Only persecution should remove them for sure...
Loving means that you should protect those who are friendly with you or they gonna collapse together with the friendship

Done. 66% chance on conquest, 100% chance on flip/liberation, 0% if you massacre people of that religion. It was actually meant to be that way, but I seem to have forgotten to also change bNeverCapture from 1 to 0.

 

[Tigranes]

While we are on this -- I dare to suggest spawning Gallipoli in Thrace and handing it to Ottomans via event circa 1354.

Just asking you to comment on this idea please...

Spoiler :

 

[blizzrd]

Spoiler :

Where did the Deer and Clam come from?

 

[Jusos2108]

Is it just me or would anyone (blizzrd, AP, rrosen??) be interested in playing URV succession game after a new patch is released by Edead?

 

[blizzrd]

Count me in.

 

[The Turk]

Just asking you to comment on this idea please...

Spoiler :

I agree with this 100%! Currently the Turkish spawn is mired in a fallacy, concerning its inception. In reality, Constantinople was besieged on both sides of the Bosporus, but originally on the European side. It all started when Byzantine Emperors began inviting Turks to cross the Bosporus to fight the Bulgarians and other hostiles; what ended up happening though, is that they settled down, and began a dominant presence in Thrace. I just think that Adrianople/a spawning Gallipoli which would be awesome, should be Turkish, or that a Turkish army should spawn nearby on the other side, to capture Adrianople, which historically was captured in 1365.

 

[Tigranes]

Where did the Deer and Clam come from?

I felt the need to feed the people in Gallipoli If we want that city we could replace Deer with wheat:

The principal towns of the Thracian Chersonese were Cardia, Pactya, Callipolis (Gallipoli), Alopeconnesus, Sestos, Madytus, and Elaeus. The peninsula was renowned for its wheat. It also benefited from its strategic importance on the main route between Europe and Asia, as well as from its control of the shipping route from Crimea.

I know that edead has a minimalistic approach about the cities (I asked him unsuccessfully to consider an oasis in the middle of Arabian peninsula, for example). It really bugs me that you can predict all the cities you could possibly see from the very beginning. I mean, have you ever seen any other city in Thrace for instance, except Adrianopolis? But Gallipoli is not just another city, it plays very symbolic role in the history of "Sword of Islam", if you will. It was the first European holding of Ottoman Turks. It should be harder to attack Constantinople from Asia than from Europe -- I suggest a river from the right and no river from the left. Currently you end up attacking Constantinople from Asia only, which was not the case in 1453.

P.S. We probably need to move this side-discussion to another thread .

 

[embryodead]

The city is terrible and no human player would want in. Even if you add more resources, the best way to deal with it is to raze either that or Adrianople. Moreover, it won't make Ottomans move their units from Anatolia, or produce a serious army in Gallipoli.

I also don't like the idea of giving Ottomans Thrace 65 years early, which is why I removed Thrace from Ottoman core provinces (back when it was divided in two). It was after a discussion in the main thread, I think a suggestion from players...

The fact that Adrianople is rather insignificant and captured after Constantinople doesn't bother me because there's no Europe anyway. There's no historical base of Ottoman Empire, which was the Balkans. And when there's no Europe, you can't expect Ottomans to take Constantinople from the West. BC has it even better by not having any cities past Constantinople, but here it wouldn't look good to have a wasteland in place of Thrace.

Also, Adrianople, like many Byzantine cities, is pre-placed, which is why there's no variance at all.

 

[rrosen]

Is it just me or would anyone (blizzrd, AP, rrosen??) be interested in playing URV succession game after a new patch is released by Edead?

Absolutely!