Religious victory?

[Tigranes]

 

[embryodead]

Well, that's a good catch, esp. since I was about to release 0.4

 

[BenZL43]

I wonder... how do you settle a great people in Mecca without declaring war with the Rebels of Mecca?
And how do you sent a great people since IIRC you can't sent a non-military unit to a city you're war at.. ?

I know that I don't need to posses Mecca in order to win the URV.. Just wondering how hehe

 

[embryodead]

I wonder... how do you settle a great people in Mecca without declaring war with the Rebels of Mecca?
And how do you sent a great people since IIRC you can't sent a non-military unit to a city you're war at.. ?

I know that I don't need to posses Mecca in order to win the URV.. Just wondering how hehe

Uh, if it's in rebels hands, capture it. You don't have to do it if it's in hands of a friendly civ.

 

[Jusos2108]

I think that the Sunni URV is a bit too easy. Roayl Saint is byproduct of spreading Sunni to 50% and the 50% can be achieved easily, so it could increased to 60%. I liked the last one, which requires some planning, but with Abbasids that was quite easy too. Maybe also settling all Sunni Relics in Makkah would make it harder?? Or then the Royal Saint one could be replaced with a relic hunt.

BTW, Sindh was my vassal and I lost contact with them..

 

[Tigranes]

I think that the Sunni URV is a bit too easy.

How realistic would it be to ensure that all the leaders on the map are Sunni at one point? That was my original idea, but edead said it is hard to check for and hard to achieve... Leaders vs % would feel a little different, to say the least

 

[Tigranes]

Finally!

Loving each other was the most challenging part -- since your loved ones tend to be unstable and inclined to collapse. This is true especially about Makuria -- they were in collapsing mod for a good 100 years without visible reason -- I sent my Horse Archers to help our African bros -- but they were doing seemingly fine, no threats, no wars, booming economy. Are they scripted to collapse in late 1100s? Tamar was the last one to me -- the only lady in angry male dominated world of SoI.

Cathedrals: Antioch (late 1000s) -- taken from Rebels, Alexandria (1100s) -- as part of the combined Armenian-Crusader war against Fatimids, Jerusalem (early 1200s) -- sad by impatient Armenian Royal Saint to speed up Cathedral construction. As a week excuse I must mentioned strange war declaration by PoA which was Orthodox and Friendly . Right after we finished the phony war with the PoA we decided to punish innocent KoJ. Final Cathedral and victory was gained without backstabing Byzantium -- Rebels conquered Constantinople in 1201 and we just liberated it for the cause of Orthodoxy and used a Great Engineer to speed up the victory.

Overall fun game, took me 4 takes to figure out the right strategy. I kept causing unhappiness in Constantinople with my uber-promoted spy hoping that Byzantium will get a clue and construct a Cathedral -- as a little contribution to the team victory, but they never bothered

Little oddities:

1. Makuria unstable for no reason. They collapsed right after I bribed the last leader to love me.
2. Relics need to be desired by corresponding leaders -- why would Basil decline to trade for the True Cross?
3. If Rebels from 4th crusade manage to take over Constantinople it should get a Catholic religion.
4. F7 screen could show what benefits one gets thanks to the high Piety, like it is done in RFCE (stability bonus, diplo bonus). It really would not be a big deal to get a free Great Saint when players hits a Saint level for the very first time. It's logical, will help Shia URV, and also makes up for the fact that every other Great Person can be acquired via tech -- except for Great Saint.
5. Workers cannot build forts on certain plots, I wonder why...
6. Catholics convert to Orthodoxy way too easy.
7. Strange lack of culture around Makurian city (last attachment)

 

[BenZL43]

Then the Sunni URV will be easier to those who spawn near Mecca then rather than those like Ghaznavid, Mughal, etc..

Will you balance it one day so it'll be as hard as it should for every civs?

 

[blizzrd]

1. Makuria unstable for no reason. They collapsed right after I bribed the last leader to love me.

From your screenshot, it appears that Aswan has Catholicism rather than Orthodoxy. The presence of non-state religions is likely to be what is causing the instability for Makuria.

In my current Byzantine game, Makuria was Unstable/Collapsing when all appeared to be well (booming economy, no lost cities to barbs). Then I noticed their most northern city was Shia, so I spread Orthodoxy and Makuria instantly became Stable/Shaky instead.

 

[embryodead]

Then the Sunni URV will be easier to those who spawn near Mecca then rather than those like Ghaznavid, Mughal, etc..

Will you balance it one day so it'll be as hard as it should for every civs?

Some balancing has to be done, i.e. Abbasids have it too easy. But making it equal for all civs is impossible really, and there's no reason to do it. I mean, it's the same with UHVs, both in RFC and SoI. Some are easier, and some are more challenging.

 

[Tigranes]

I have a thought about Piety score for different religions. The mod already does a good job discriminating among religions in Piety score calculations but with URVs there is a clear need to further it and spell it clearly in manual. In a sense Piety became the second stability -- one wants to know how exactly it is getting changed. Manual does not explain, for example, that violence can increase Piety considerably which is not a very good idea for Hindus and to the certain extent Christians. Jusos described a clever way of becoming Royal Saint by Ajmer -- letting Ghorids conquer particular city again and again and massacring Muslims after reconquest. Also Hindu proselytism does not spread beyond the Hindustan, while for example no access to Cow can indicate carelessness of the leader in Hindu Piety matters... Is it possible to make Piety more pious and Piety acquisition less generic, rewarding for a good deeds. Lois IX did not become a Royal Saint for massacring lot's of Muslims -- even though he did answer a call for Crusade (currently piety via Holy War present for Muslims only).

I suggest to make more clear distinctions in the way Piety can be acquired by different religions and perhaps in the manual's Piety section list all the major religions and spell out all the + and - for each of them (and also list all the Piety related techs, by the way).

 

[BenZL43]

Well, yeah. I understand...
Btw, would you consider this idea.. :
2 different Sunni URV..

One for all civs in Anatolia, Mesopotamia, Africa, Levant, Kurdistan, Oman, Yemen, Azerbaijan, Caucasus with the current URV

Another one for the rest.. (Khwarezmid, Hindoustan, Sindh, Yazd, Khorasan, Kerman, Kyzyl Khum, Sisodia, Sogdiana, Luristan, Tabaristan, etc) with URV related to the Islamization of their region? Something that doesn't heavily force them to go to Mecca

 

[vra379971]

I've definitely noticed the massive instability upswing around 1300 for no apparent reason. Only Orthodoz, running Theocracy/Persecution, and yes, I'm at war with Mamluks and Ayyubids (both at same time o.o), and yes, barbs are razing farms near captial. This should not however cause instability to shoot up past -35, even after I managed to get Courts in.

As it is now, unless there's a way to control the crazy rise in instability, Makuria has no hope of trying to complete the URV, and in fact, its ruined my game as I have no way of fixing it.

The other thing I'd ask btw, in cases where its required for the AI to build something somewhere, there need be a serious bias put in that city to get it built. For example, I highly doubt I'd be able to keep Makuria stable enough to invade Constantinople, and do it for them.

 

[Tigranes]

The other thing I'd ask btw, in cases where its required for the AI to build something somewhere, there need be a serious bias put in that city to get it built. For example, I highly doubt I'd be able to keep Makuria stable enough to invade Constantinople, and do it for them.

Please check the brand new Jusos's game in earliest URV thread...

 

[vra379971]

Please check the brand new Jusos's game in earliest URV thread...

If he pulled that off on Caliph, then good job to him...I doubt it however....and a massive amount of luck that KoJ took Cairo o.o

I was fighting though a massive Mameluk army just to get to Cairo, facing counterattacks into the Sinai Managed to solve my stability problem, through purges and persecution civic.

Still, would be nice to be able to help/suggest to your fellow co-religionists to build stuff so the team can win. Seems a tad drastic to be invading your good pals simply for the sake of a construction project they don't even know they should build

 

[Jusos2108]

If he pulled that off on Caliph, then good job to him...I doubt it however....and a massive amount of luck that KoJ took Cairo o.o

I was fighting though a massive Mameluk army just to get to Cairo, facing counterattacks into the Sinai Managed to solve my stability problem, through purges and persecution civic.

Still, would be nice to be able to help/suggest to your fellow co-religionists to build stuff so the team can win. Seems a tad drastic to be invading your good pals simply for the sake of a construction project they don't even know they should build

The challenge is specified on Sultan level. KoJ taking Cairo didn't affect my game at all, since it was prior to Mamluk spawn.

 

[blizzrd]

Still, would be nice to be able to help/suggest to your fellow co-religionists to build stuff so the team can win. Seems a tad drastic to be invading your good pals simply for the sake of a construction project they don't even know they should build

This is very true, I don't think AI has ever built an Orthodox Cathedral in any of my games. The AI does a great job of settling Great Priests in its cities though.

 

[Tigranes]

This is very true, I don't think AI has ever built an Orthodox Cathedral in any of my games. The AI does a great job of settling Great Priests in its cities though.

I think AI feels too happy to bother with Cathedrals. I tried to stir unhappiness in Constantinople with my Spy, but then the 4th Crusade claimed the city and messed with my tricks...

 

[rrosen]

Are there any special requirements for settling multiple relics? In the attached Antioch game I've settled one and brought an additional two Christian relics to Jerusalem, but I can't settle the other two.

 

[blizzrd]

Are there any special requirements for settling multiple relics? In the attached Antioch game I've settled one and brought an additional two Christian relics to Jerusalem, but I can't settle the other two.

The reason you can't settle The Holy Banner and The Blessed Mantle in Jerusalem is that these are Islamic relics and your state religion is Catholic.