Replay #5 A history of heroes!

[Seraiel]

They're even more amazing, as they exceed their era. It's perfectly possible to beat Longbows using Elepult.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

With enough siege even warriors can beat longbows. :3 Sadly I have yet to win a Imm+ game that way. Damn you Knights!!!

 

[vranasm]

With enough siege even warriors can beat longbows. :3 Sadly I have yet to win a Imm+ game that way. Damn you Knights!!!

try to remove all strategics from map ;-) makes fun game even if a bit too easy.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

try to remove all strategics from map ;-) makes fun game even if a bit too easy.

That is not manly enough! But to be honest that takes the whole point out of it. I want to get the sense of fulfillment, and bragging rights about how I smashed the AI with a stack of warriors, and trebs. :3

 

[joanne]

It's been a while since I've been here, but man that was awesome! Congrats on the new, possibly all-time, high score record!

I think I got a mini heart attack when I read that your pc crashed - good thing that didn't corrupt your save files, now THAT would have sucked

You already have fusion, space elevator, and interstellar spaceship by 1000AD? It's past 2000AD IRL and we haven't had significant breakthroughs in any of those yet! This is ridiculous. They should make you UN secgen or head of ICSHT or something, so we can finally get some stuff done... I can stand the constant whipping as long as there's unlimited sushi bingeing

 

[Seraiel]

It's been a while since I've been here, but man that was awesome! Congrats on the new, possibly all-time, high score record!

I think I got a mini heart attack when I read that your pc crashed - good thing that didn't corrupt your save files, now THAT would have sucked

You already have fusion, space elevator, and interstellar spaceship by 1000AD? It's past 2000AD IRL and we haven't had significant breakthroughs in any of those yet! This is ridiculous. They should make you UN secgen or head of ICSHT or something, so we can finally get some stuff done... I can stand the constant whipping as long as there's unlimited sushi bingeing

Regarding my : I already lost my complete data (everything!) twice because I was running RAID and one of the two harddrives somehow screwed up, since then, I'm running them as mirrors of each other.

And regarding the ridiculous timeline: I know you're joking, but I don't want to evoke the thought that this was actually something very special, it's just the reaction to the settings and the playstyle. Marathon heavily favours faster developement as I experienced it, and 17 Civs allows for crazy tech-stealing and tech-trading. Getting 200 cities and specializing almost all of them to be Commerce-cities in the beginning, while workings tons of REP-Specialists with Sushi later added up to that developement.
At last, the AIs on this map were somehow really really slow, I've never experienced such huge gaps between them and me before, neither do I reach Sushi so late (240 AD, normal time for it would be 1 AD in the HoF's games including my personal ones) normally.

But I have no problems with becoming UN Secretary General or the Worlds President, I already also know who whill get whipped first .

Btw.: I am already working for "SNASA"

Regards, Sera

 

[Pangaea]

Haha, that SNASA was commented on earlier somewhere. Utterly awe.....some.

 

[shakabrade]

This just shows the difference in our play style. I like to gain a vassal early, while you like to play passively, and wait for Lib.

Wrong. I wage a lot of ancient and medieval warfare but don't take vassals much because it messes up your diplo and there's always possibility UN will be the only victory possible. I play not to lose. And also don't have a style. Lib is my choice on harder maps where you just can't do a shi* but pray and play to survive until cuirs or cannons if you even have any resources. But do get it in only half of my games. WE is great and has large lifespan but I find Cannons and Cuirs more gamebreaking and easier to obtain. That being said, cannon is the most powerful unit by far. No AI without Artillery is safe from my cannons. Many infantry have soaked my CPU with their blood and body parts against simple army of cannons and grens. Ahh, the canons <3.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Wrong. I wage a lot of ancient and medieval warfare but don't take vassals much because it messes up your diplo and there's always possibility UN will be the only victory possible. I play not to lose. And also don't have a style. Lib is my choice on harder maps where you just can't do a shi* but pray and play to survive until cuirs or cannons if you even have any resources. But do get it in only half of my games. WE is great and has large lifespan but I find Cannons and Cuirs more gamebreaking and easier to obtain. That being said, cannon is the most powerful unit by far. No AI without Artillery is safe from my cannons. Many infantry have soaked my CPU with their blood and body parts against simple army of cannons and grens. Ahh, the canons <3.

Hmm maybe I haven't seen enough of your games then. I just figured you were like the vast majority of CFC who plays Imm+, and are a sheep who follows the thought process of must get Lib Cuirs to win. See now I ALWAYS take a vassal, they maybe from my second not my first war sometimes, but they explode your research on Deity. So many of my games have gone from me attacking someone with some random units, and siege early to having 2-4 vassals with a goo 200 BPT in the ADs, and getting Cannons purely off tech brokering with my vassals. I agree that the cannon is much much better than the Cuir as the Cuir wins you games you are already winning, but the cannons win you games on the back of their awesomeness. But the OPhant is like the Cannon of it's age, with a little bit of back up, and a stable enough economy you can come close to winning the game with just OPhants. I think I forgot to say in my list that it is based off when the units are used, not just the unit itself. Oh, and my list is a very personal preference for my play style list. For a general list I would agree that the Cannon is #1, but the Cuir is definitely not #2, maybe #3 or #4.

 

[Seraiel]

I'd personally quote WastinTime on that, with the awesomeness of Civ being that is has multiple approaches . I. e. compare his approach of focusing on economy with my approach on early conquest, his way of beelining CS / Paper with me going for Music and catching up via Tech-Trade and a GA, and at last, us both going for Communism to support the settled cities via State Property to T-hawks approach to beeline Sushi.

All ended up within a range of 10% of the score, Sushi was reached within a timeframe of less than 20 turns while about 350-400 had been played (again, very low deviance) , Kaitzilla, WastinTime and me founded Sushi in our "best till then games" within what, 1 to 50 AD? That's basically simultaniously, while totally different approaches had been taken.

I could comment on Zx Zero Zx and shakabrade, but have neither the intention to talk about shaka's approach to the game, nor overload Zero's brain with pictures :> .

 

[shakabrade]

@Zx

deleted

Edit: Now I see what I did here. Sorry Sera for derailing this thread. This all argument is more suited for PM.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Derailing threads is what I do best.

But when it comes to high level play there are many different play styles that all end up getting very similar results. Take for example the way Shakabrade achieved his HoF spot, with WC he got a 1200s win, now I could do an Eng bulb rush, and if played well I could probably shave 50-100 years off the date, but most likely I would end up with a slightly later win. So in the end it is all player preference.

 

[civac]

Great game and awesome writeup. Thanks for several hours of enjoyable reading.


Btw, the king of the Civ4 battlefield is obviously the catapult.

 

[Seraiel]

No argument about if collateral dmg is "necessary" or even "overpowered" . Catapults as the 1st siege weapons available have a special place, especially as they lifespan is quite large, anyhow, I think the War Elephant would feel offended, as he's the one to do the killing and he's over 1.5 times as strong as the Cat. Cuirrassiers and Cavs work without Siege, and the great advantage of the Cannon is, that it comes at a time in the game, where the human often has reached the necessary advantage over the AI. Don't know on which difficulty you play, but Cat-wars on Deity are more difficult than Treb- or Cannon-wars are up to my experience.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Well if you can start a OPhant Cat war early they are really easy, but that is mostly because of the OPhant not needing much collateral damage to be able to have 80%+ odds. But after your first target you are not going to be able to hit another target with Cats, by then you will HAVE to have Trebs to gain any ground.

 

[jihe]

Hmm maybe I haven't seen enough of your games then. I just figured you were like the vast majority of CFC who plays Imm+, and are a sheep who follows the thought process of must get Lib Cuirs to win. See now I ALWAYS take a vassal, they maybe from my second not my first war sometimes, but they explode your research on Deity. So many of my games have gone from me attacking someone with some random units, and siege early to having 2-4 vassals with a goo 200 BPT in the ADs, and getting Cannons purely off tech brokering with my vassals. I agree that the cannon is much much better than the Cuir as the Cuir wins you games you are already winning, but the cannons win you games on the back of their awesomeness. But the OPhant is like the Cannon of it's age, with a little bit of back up, and a stable enough economy you can come close to winning the game with just OPhants. I think I forgot to say in my list that it is based off when the units are used, not just the unit itself. Oh, and my list is a very personal preference for my play style list. For a general list I would agree that the Cannon is #1, but the Cuir is definitely not #2, maybe #3 or #4.

WE is good but ivory is a lot rarer than horses. I simply find that if I go for elephants wars then I usually can't get vassals simply because I attack at construction and feudalism is a long long way away. Cuirassiers are actually a break out unit for when you are stuck at 6 cities or less and don't have enough whipping power to get a sizable stack, which on diety is most of the times.

 

[Killroyan]

Applaus. Big BIG BIG HUGE GAME!!!! Thx for the very entertaining thread. Looking forward to praet fun. You sir definitely deserve the place in my signature

 

[happyturtle]

Best. Thread. EVER!

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

WE is good but ivory is a lot rarer than horses. I simply find that if I go for elephants wars then I usually can't get vassals simply because I attack at construction and feudalism is a long long way away. Cuirassiers are actually a break out unit for when you are stuck at 6 cities or less and don't have enough whipping power to get a sizable stack, which on diety is most of the times.

If you can get to the point where you have enough land to get to Cuirs, then still have enough land to out produce the AI, and vassal them you could have attacked much much sooner with Trebs. Also Ivory is not that rare, 8 games out of 10 I have Ivory in my empire. You also need to remember that you don't need Elephants to take cities with classical, and medieval war. All you need is to have 5+ cities with either high food to constantly 2 pop whip from 4 to 2, or enough strong hammer cities to just pump them out. You also don't need to attack the AI when it has like 6 archers in their city, and you have a full stack. You can attack when they have 2 or 3 archers, and you have 2 catapults, and 3 attackers as you WILL take the city, and will be able to use it to whip out a bunch more units. I think your problem is that you don't understand how good the whip is, and are chopping to many of your forests into settlers, and workers to try for your "needed" 6 cities.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Wow that was one amazing game. You know what you should do now. You should p,at caveman to cosmos