Republic

[WackenOpenAir]

So how would you handle this scenerio:

Emp/Huge/Pangea/Mayan

First 4 civs I meet are 4 techs ahead of me and already have my starting techs, so I can't trade . It took me 50 turns to get alpha which I traded to get to parity, but couldn't get WC, but I did get BW. How am I suppose to defend myself if I can't make archers? I eventually had to make a few spears until I could trade writing for WC, but that was a long time coming.

To add to above replies.
You normally don't need to worry about defence early on. They will normally start attacking you only when space for settling runs out. If you have no millitary, they will however abuse you a little by making demands of you. Swallow your pride and give them what they want. You will have your revenge later.

 

[Siaphi94]

so, can i see one of your save games to see what is defended and how? For those who use republic.

 

[Aabraxan]

Which version are you in again?

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

This seems like the place for me to get advice on my recent government ponderings, and a little back story for consideration...

Currently I am using the Greeks in C3C and I have the Romans to my north (ironically above a rounded see that looks alot like a miniature Medditeranean sea), I have the Persians who are to my East, I have the Americans just above the Romans, and I HAD the Egyptians to my west. The Egyptians of all people started out very kind, but quickly gave my a sucker punch when I wasn't looking. I waged war that was a stalemate and then made peace. Then I wound up in a war right after that with the Persians who tried to bully me. That was also a stale mate. Exactly 1 turn as soon as I got out of that war, Egypt had the nerves to declare war on the Americans at the same time. So I took the oppurtunity and punnished Cleopatra and destroyed her entire civilization by taking a few cities and destroying the capital. That left ALOT of realastate to be had. I have been trying to claim as much as I can but... what I really don't understand here is that Lincoln is furious with me even though I came to his rescue. Could it have anything to do with the fact that I have been playing on Monarchy?... Another thing about Americands in this game is they seem to be the prostitutes of the world in this game. If they got a tech, EVERY Civ gets that tech. But as much as I try to befriend and ally the Americans, they act bitter towards me even though I rescued them from Egypt (3 American Cities were already conqered by the time I arrived at Cairo.)

...All of my neighbors kept demanding tributes and trying to steal my technology (I WAS advanced...) but I refused to pay up so thus every single neighbor at one point has declared war on me. The romans are especially aggressive and never have any gold in the bank to pay in deals. They are technologically inferior, but the number of units that have is intimidating. Ceaser continues to demand tributes. I dragged out a defensive war for a long time and made peace.

Right now I am back at war with the Persians but this time I am on the offensive. I have taken 3 of their cities and am trying to capture one that has 3 sources of gems around it before I make peace.

Almost all of the other Civs are either annoyed or furious with me. Only about 3-4 out of 16 have a decent attitude towards me. And those are all civs I am exporting resources and luxories to, and they are giving me lots of gpt in exchange.

At one point in the game I wanted to gain a commercial surplus so I set my slider all the way down. I had a significant technological edge but because of what I did I am now slightly behind. I am at the end of the Middle ages with Navigation, Economy, and Democracy to go. Should I trade resources/luxories I own for techs, or should I go with gpt?

Now more to the point of this post being in this thread...

I have been play on regent level and have been using Monarchy this whole time. As a new Civ player I have found this to be the least complicated and easiest to support my military and keep my cities from going up in smoke....

But recently I have been pondering whether to switch to republic. I figure as soon as this war with Persia is over I should make the switch. But I am not really so sure, and the fact that I would have to leave some cities ungarded really scares me. So here are my on topic questions...

-Should I just wait for democrocy? What is the advantages/disadvantages of Democracy vs Republic?

-If in Republic you have to leave some interior cities unguarded, doesn't that make for losing those cities? Especially what if you have a right of passage aggreement? Or what if you have alot of really agressive neighbers that don't like you? Is the switch still worth it?

-Is Monarchy better if I keep getting dragged into wars and have a pretty big army?

I also managed to build the military acadamy and even without it I managed to pop 3 great leaders wich I used one to rush the project, one to build and army, and another I am saving. So alot of military action is definately going to happen in this game. Right now on Monarcy I have my Science slider set to 100% and am making 17 gpt thanks to a couple deals I made with other civs. I have a large surplus of resources and luxories thanks to some land I settled on in what used to be Egypt. Again, I ask if I should trade for some techs, or should I stick with gpt? What's better in the long run? (This relates to the Democracy question, whether I should aim for Democracy or not).

Thanks in advance guys!

 

[Delphi456]

If you do a search for 'republic' (Search Titles Only) in the C3 General Discussion forum you will get all the info you need. Even topics such as 'Republic vs Monarchy' are there. This question is asked a lot, so 'searching' will give you a more comprehensive view than just this thread. Happy reading.

 

[Aabraxan]

Also, if you have CivAssist II, you can go to the Economy tab and examine what different governments will do to your economy without having to actually make the switch.

 

[Nitfan]

Sipahi94 - I can send you a mid-Middle Age save from a Deity game on Monday. I'm not going to be near my regular computer till then. Some other things you should consider are the ROP's and how much you've been trading with who.

My current military was 53 knights, 2 pikeman, and 2 muskets. I had the Americans and Carthage to my northeast/east border and all the wars I was fighting were on the other side. I didn't even have a single unit in any of my core cities because I knew there was zero chance my neighbors were going to ever ROP rape me. I had already been in several MA with them and was trading lux's, techs, and resources. This allowed me to have the offensive units where I needed to keep my offensives going on Greece.

So to make a long story short, the places you need to defend are highly situational and require analysis from you to decide. Another thing to consider is that the AI rates your strength based on your # of offensive units. Buidling a ton of defensive units is a good way to get picked on.

 

[Siaphi94]

i save game would definitley help.

 

[gmaharriet]

I am at the end of the Middle ages with Navigation, Economy, and Democracy to go.

Why are you researching optional techs? If you really want them, trade with the AI for them when the cost has gone down or get them as part of a peace treaty.

Should I trade resources/luxories I own for techs, or should I go with gpt?

Like most answers in Civ...it depends. You don't want to make the AI too happy...they tend to build entertainers which can be put back to work building things if they're happy. The AI doesn't use the lux slider. Trading resources or techs may allow them to build more modern units...bad if they're your neighbor about to attack, but good if they are far away and bankrupt themselves with unit support.

Should I just wait for democrocy? What is the advantages/disadvantages of Democracy vs Republic?

I'd go to Republic and stay there. Demo is slightly better in lower corruption and faster worker speed, but Republic is still very good and gets better speed after you learn Replacable Parts. Demo has far greater problems with WW, can not only riot, but completely overthrow your government into anarchy.

If in Republic you have to leave some interior cities unguarded, doesn't that make for losing those cities? Especially what if you have a right of passage aggreement? Or what if you have alot of really agressive neighbers that don't like you? Is the switch still worth it?

Guard your border cities only and do NOT make ROPs with the AI if you're concerned that they may backstab you.

Is Monarchy better if I keep getting dragged into wars and have a pretty big army?

You can do a lot of war in Republic, and the WW count begins over again when you are at war with a different civ. It's only a problem if you have a long war with one civ or are losing units and/or cities. Monarchy is for playing Always War, never ever having peace.

I also managed to build the military acadamy and even without it I managed to pop 3 great leaders wich I used one to rush the project, one to build and army, and another I am saving.

Do you mean the Heroic Epic, which is the Small Wonder that helps you get more promotions and leaders. The Military Academy builds an actual army without a leader.

Are you aware than, when you save a leader, you cannot get another one until he is used up?

Again, I ask if I should trade for some techs, or should I stick with gpt? What's better in the long run? (This relates to the Democracy question, whether I should aim for Democracy or not).

Again, it depends for trading. As for Demo, I think Republic is much better and you can get it earlier without researching the additional techs and suffering through another period of anarchy.

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

Are you aware than, when you save a leader, you cannot get another one until he is used up?

This ship has sailed, but I would like to point out a few things. I have experienced this to be false. I have had an army and had another great leader appear to exist simaltaneously. I've had 3 at the same time at one point. I had 2 BEFORE I built the Heroic Epic and since the Heroic Epic, after I lost 2 of the armies I had another one appear to go with the remaining one.

Also, I have found that researching optional techs makes for excellent trade bait. Especially if you were like me and found yourself trailing behind the important techs. I was able to research the optional ones in much less turns and trade them for the important ones.

And no, in my post I actually DID mean the Military Acadamy. I have rushed the acadamy and turn built the Heroic Epic in another City.

Anyway, thanks for the help!

 

[Delphi456]

This ship has sailed, but I would like to point out a few things. I have experienced this to be false. I have had an army and had another great leader appear to exist simaltaneously. I've had 3 at the same time at one point.

I believe gmaharriet is saying you can't get a second great leader if you already have an UNUSED great leader. In your case, you "used up" your leaders by creating armies or rushing. Your F3 screen will show you if you have any unused great leaders.

 

[gmaharriet]

I believe gmaharriet is saying you can't get a second great leader if you already have an UNUSED great leader. In your case, you "used up" your leaders by creating armies or rushing. Your F3 screen will show you if you have any unused great leaders.

Exactly! Thank you, Delphi.

It was this sentence that gave me the impression you had mixed up the Heroic Epic and Military Academy, since the Military Academy has nothing to do with popping Military Great Leaders, but the Heroic Epic increases the chances for promotions and leaders. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I also managed to build the military acadamy and even without it I managed to pop 3 great leaders

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

I believe gmaharriet is saying you can't get a second great leader if you already have an UNUSED great leader. In your case, you "used up" your leaders by creating armies or rushing. Your F3 screen will show you if you have any unused great leaders.

I see.
But in one case I had built an army leader but still popped a great leader while the army leader had been sitting dormant unused.

 

[Turner]

I see.
But in one case I had built an army leader but still popped a great leader while the army leader had been sitting dormant unused.

Because that leader had become an army. Once you click on the 'Hurry Improvement' or 'Build Army' button, it ceases becoming a leader and allows you to get another one.

 

[Delphi456]

Because that leader had become an army. Once you click on the 'Hurry Improvement' or 'Build Army' button, it ceases becoming a leader and allows you to get another one.

Wait, wait, wait. I think we've all misunderstood what Ruler is trying to say. I think Ruler is thinking that the Military Academy builds 'Leaders', when in fact it builds 'Armies'. So, he built and army, didn't fill it with any units, and then simultaneously popped a Leader from fighting. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Army that a Military Academy builds is like a Leader that has been preselected to "Build Army", therefore, it is not an unused leader, it is merely an Army without units. That's why Ruler thinks he's got two unused leaders, when in fact he's got one unused leader, and one empty army.

I think it was all a symantic misunderstanding.

 

[Turner]

^^^ That could be.

 

[Desertsnow]

Okay then, so for clarification:

• If you pop a leader from a war victory, you don't get any more Military leaders until that leader is used, for either an army or a leader-rush of a project.
• If you set the city with your Military Academy to build an army, it just builds empty armies as if you'd ordered the leader to build an army there. You still need to load units into this army, as you would a leader-built one.
• You can still pop leaders in combat even if you have armies, empty or otherwise, in the game.

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

Delphi was right. Thanks for clearing things up guys!

 

[darski]

Just as an experiment, I tried doing the rush straight to Republic in yesterday's game. I am playing as Babs so I have some leeway in changing governments as I go. (there was a small panic when I discovered that no WC meant no bab bowmen but a goody hut fixed that)

I have to admit that you progress much, much faster in Republic than with Monarchy. I am at about 950 AD and have 43 cities. In my last game it was the 1800's before I got that many.

Because of the Roman (desperation) aggression, I had to switch to Monarchy as the war just would not end. I plan to switch back again now that the war is over and I have a few of their cities - like Rome

I had not believed that Republic did that much, even though I usually got there eventually. Now I see how far it can take you early on.

 

[Aabraxan]

I have to admit that you progress much, much faster in Republic than with Monarchy. I am at about 950 AD and have 43 cities. In my last game it was the 1800's before I got that many.

That's quite a difference.

Just as an experiment, I tried doing the rush straight to Republic in yesterday's game. I am playing as Babs so I have some leeway in changing governments as I go. (there was a small panic when I discovered that no WC meant no bab bowmen but a goody hut fixed that)

The AI also values the techs along the Republic pathway moderately well, so trading can easily keep you at parity. It always feels like you're falling behind until you get get writing, but at that point, you can begin to trade Alphabet around and grab WC (or any number of other techs) pretty easily. As an example, I play the Romans a fair amount (& hence need iron for the UU), but I rarely actually research IW myself.