"Republican Candidate" Extends Lead vs. Obama to 47% to 39%

Limited liability could be a clause of any private contract, as I said.


source, pretty good article.
So, no explanation for why limited liability companies never existed until the government legislated them into existance giving them special benefits? That they could have existed does not refute the fact they didn't exist and would have been unable to protect shareholders given the existing legal structure prior to the legislation of LLCs.
 
If Obama came out and endorsed exactly what Boehner wants, Boehner would switch because he needs to appear "anti-Obama" to his party.
 
*Checks Red Diamond status of thread*

Boehner, heh :lol:
 
I was actually commenting on some earlier post. The rest of the thread is tl;dr.
 
... but if you tax the rich more, there's less incentive on the margin to produce. This effect is likely to outweigh yours.

I was being sarcastic ;), in reality it appears to make very little difference to be honest. Europe on the whole has much higher taxes than America and yet does basically just as well economically.

I cant believe this is even a debate that needs having within the American government. Cut spending and raises taxes until you meet somewhere in the middle, or whatever, just keep arguing and bickering until America's economy collapses, at least both sides can say that they where probably right...
 
I'd vote for Emperor Palpatine before I'd vote for Obama. I mean, under Palpatine, we'd at least be spending less on bureaucracy and more on Death Stars.

I'm still undecided about Lord Voldemort, but I figure that if we give him the Resurrection Stone, he'll be able to implement a universal health-care system at zero cost to taxpayers.
 
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2972/reaganc.jpg

from census data

You should compare that trend with the trend towards both members of a household working :) There's a pretty good explanation for most of that trend!

... but if you tax the rich more, there's less incentive on the margin to produce. This effect is likely to outweigh yours.
Not really (as long as taxes are on profits, not revenue). "The rich" are motivated by relative wealth status. If the total wealth generated by efforts decreased (due to taxation), there is still relative wealth status to motivate. If taxes were just sucked in and destroyed, yes, there would be a net loss of productivity, but that's not really what happens.

Redistribution creates deadweight (obviously). It also can create public goods and it can also be simply redistributive. Simple redistribution results in no net loss of productivity (because they buy the taxed goods). Public goods create wealth. And deadweight loss is money down a pit.

As well, you showed a chart showing that the median income has been rising after factoring in things like pension contributions and medical benefits. Could you please PM me a link to the source? (or post it here)
 
Actually, that's not quite right. The design of Supply Side economics as practiced in the US is to drag down total wealth creation in favor of wealth concentration. So it's to grab a bigger slice of a stagnant pie.
 
You should compare that trend with the trend towards both members of a household working :) There's a pretty good explanation for most of that trend!
Not quite the same, but here's some median income broken down by family type.

reagan2.jpg



Not really (as long as taxes are on profits, not revenue). "The rich" are motivated by relative wealth status. If the total wealth generated by efforts decreased (due to taxation), there is still relative wealth status to motivate.
At some point, the rich completely stop caring about what those dollars can buy and only care that they have more than someone else? That's an odd assertion. More importantly, though, you seem to think that if taxation is just on profits, then all is good; it won't crowd out investment. That is, a tax increase will just let me keep less of my profit, but I'll still be in the black. This doesn't stand up to scrutiny, however. Profits aren't like wages; they often come as the reward for long-term capital investments. The risk (and sunk resources) here can only be offset with a sufficiently high profit. Accordingly, cutting into profit further will crowd out investments on the margin.

If taxes were just sucked in and destroyed, yes, there would be a net loss of productivity, but that's not really what happens. Redistribution creates deadweight (obviously). It also can create public goods and it can also be simply redistributive. Simple redistribution results in no net loss of productivity (because they buy the taxed goods). Public goods create wealth. And deadweight loss is money down a pit.
If you ever find a way to simply redistribute, let me know. ;) Unfortunately, acts of coercion tend to always create distortions.



As well, you showed a chart showing that the median income has been rising after factoring in things like pension contributions and medical benefits. Could you please PM me a link to the source? (or post it here)
Which? I should have at least left reference to the data set.
 
Actually, that's not quite right. The design of Supply Side economics as practiced in the US is to drag down total wealth creation in favor of wealth concentration. So it's to grab a bigger slice of a stagnant pie.

You forgot the part about going into insane amounts of debt...
 
Not quite the same, but here's some median income broken down by family type.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6283/reagan2.jpg
Yeah, it's not the same. But it makes my point. A great deal of the growth in the median income is the drive to put wives to work. Women's earning power shot up, and then their working while being married raised the median as their contribution dominated the signal.

The trend towards two-income families peaked ... iirc ... in the early nineties. So, the benefit from adding an additional income was no longer available to raise the median. I'm not denying that earning power has risen, by the way. I'm rather sure it has. As well, since I'm happy to count externalities, I recognise that the median wealth has risen a lot more than a lot of people have!

But 1/3 of households adding a second earner had better raise median family income, or there's something seriously wrong!
At some point, the rich completely stop caring about what those dollars can buy and only care that they have more than someone else? That's an odd assertion.
Haha. No, that's not what I meant. Sorry. I'll rephrase. There is always incentive to build wealth, even if the net rate-of-return changes. Wealthy people will be driven to get a rate-of-return on their time & investments, because they want to be wealthier. Beyond a specific cognitive point, people no longer earn in order to generate personal utility. They earn in order to increase their relative wealth status.
More importantly, though, you seem to think that if taxation is just on profits, then all is good; it won't crowd out investment. That is, a tax increase will just let me keep less of my profit, but I'll still be in the black. This doesn't stand up to scrutiny, however. Profits aren't like wages; they often come as the reward for long-term capital investments. The risk (and sunk resources) here can only be offset with a sufficiently high profit. Accordingly, cutting into profit further will crowd out investments on the margin.
Yes, it will crowd out specific investments, much like a higher borrowing cost does. And yes, we can ostensibly lose out on that front. But the real question is whether the effect comes out in the wash. A tax on profits essentially drops the ROR on an investment. However, a drop on ROR doesn't reduce the total drive to invest. People will still go and invest capital where they think there will be a return. The opportunity to pool capital will still be available, and it will still be aggressively pursued.

But, yeah, taxing profits obviously affects ROR. If (ha!) it's fairly applied, it's a similar effect for all entrepreneurs. Their individual motivation to pursue opportunities will remain. And, because part of the taxation is simply redistributive, the potential ROR for their money (because we mostly measure income in money, cognitively) will be higher based on the fact that they have more customers.

So, yeah. On the one hand, we have a decrease in investment in riskier ventures (thus creating a slower growth rate, ostensibly) and deadweight loss. On the other hand, we have the creation of public goods and any social benefits due to redistribution.

It's a question of balance. Some people overvalue social benefit. Others ignore public goods. We talked about how taxes decrease risky ventures. But public goods create products that would be sorely under-invested in without people spending to benefit the civilization instead of the capital-holders.
 
*Checks Thread*

*Notes that no one discusses Diminishing Marginal Utility of Income and how that implicates tax policy

*Leaves Thread*


On the other hand, we have the creation of public goods and any social benefits due to redistribution.

:D

The ability to benefit people 'at the bottom' with cash is a social benefit.
 
You forgot the part about going into insane amounts of debt...

I never forget that. If the Supply Siders could do their thing without all the debt, they wouldn't be nearly as damaging to the country in the long run.

But they can't. Because their theories just don't produce the growth they claim it will. And so always make the wrong suggestions.
 
It is only the USA where one gets the poor without two cents to their name arguing that they have a duty to the wealthy.
The sad part is those poor do not believe the wealthy have a duty to American society at all, even those who have inherited wealth and have not done a damn thing for it seem to be a part of an America Nobility which is based on wealth and wealth only.

Of course once military pay etc stops we will see a lot of conservatives arguing they are owed tax payer funds.
 
My bet is still that Obama wins reelection. It will be just like 2004 where you would think the other party would be a lock to win until you looked at the guy they nominated.
 
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