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[vanilla] Research Agreements (vanilla)

Research Agreements

  1. Scarpa

    Scarpa Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
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    Heh, I learned this the hard way the other day. Thought it reset median on each RA resolution and missed Dynamite by 9 turns worth (on Epic though, so not as big a deal).

    I do have to say this article completely changed the way I play though. Especially on an Epic game, it's so much fun to lord over everyone else with infantry when they are just popping their shiny new musketeers.
     
  2. vexing

    vexing knows

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    i just did some verification, and the median does shift across multiple RA resolutions on a single turn. this is tricky to see because each RA is limited to completing one tech, and the overflow is applied at the end after all resolutions.

    in practice this means that if you're using RAs optimally where a single RA is providing enough beakers to complete more than one tech, concurrent resolving won't grant the same median shifts that staggered resolving will.

    i've updated the article accordingly.
     
  3. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Chieftain

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    The 2 techs/turn info is for a single RA, rather than multiple. It's important to know if you're staggering RAs too close together at key points in the tech tree. the overflow'd full tech only gets completed on the next turn, and if you have more than enough to finish a further tech, then an RA on that next turn might not get the correct median.
     
  4. ShahJahanII

    ShahJahanII Homesick Alien

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    That would be great for all of these entries.
     
  5. Ran88dom99

    Ran88dom99 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
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    400 beakers for 200 gold?
    Thank you.
     
  6. porphyrogenitus

    porphyrogenitus Chieftain

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    Dec 31, 2011
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    Really good article & food for thought. Could I just check that I've understood correctly what seems to be the main point (and forgive me if this seems naive- I'm still trying to get my head around many of the Civ V concepts)?

    Throughout the duration of an RA it pays to;
    Research some "cheap" techs to within one turn of completion;
    Only research other techs fully where they'll get you well along the tree;
    Ensure that when the RA matures you've only just started research on an "expensive" tech
    By implication keep a very careful eye on the turn counter so that you know when the RA is due to mature.

    Or have I missed something?

    When btw are RAs not a good idea?
     
  7. vexing

    vexing knows

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    that's just an explanation of how to abuse the era cost system to minimize RA cost. it's only really applicable to classical era RAs, where you can avoid getting into medieval era for an extended period to keep the cost at 200 gold instead of 250 + 100 penalty.

    i'd say the main point is set up high medians before resolution.

    ras are not a good idea when:
    you're going to be at war with the person before the duration expires,
    or the gold could be better spent. this is rare.
     
  8. Salawow

    Salawow Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
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    Thanks alot for this guide :) This "new" RAs is much better than the free random tech we had the last time i played (it was long ago..)

    Just a question though (sorry if it has been said, it's possible that i missed it)

    What happens if you sign a RA with another civ, and then a DoW occurs between the two of you before it's done ? Does it still last for the proper amount of turn and give you your beakers regardless of war ? Does it stop right away and gives you some beakers based on the amount of turns it lasted ? Or do you simply totaly lose the gold investment ?

    And if you sign a RA with another civ, and that civ got destroyed (not by you) before it's done ?
     
  9. vexing

    vexing knows

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    war (or the destruction of a partner) cancels all ongoing trades with that civilization, research agreements included. you gain no beakers, and there's no return of gold.
     
  10. Salawow

    Salawow Chieftain

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    May 28, 2011
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    Thank you very much :)

    Do you know if the AI is less likely to DoW if there is an ongooing RA ? Or it doesn't matter much to them, same as any other trade for X turns ?
     
  11. Monthar

    Monthar Chieftain

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    The AI will DoW no matter what trades you have active with them. I've had them DoW within a few turns of signing a RA with them and on the last turn before it completes.
     
  12. Jaybe

    Jaybe Chieftain Supporter

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    I've always put this down to malicious intent, not 'randomness' and 'without regard.'

    It may be wishful thinking, but it keeps me emotionally engaged. :)
     
  13. vexing

    vexing knows

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    there is a lot of anecdotal evidence on the forums that the AI will break RAs via war on purpose if they perceive you as threatening to win, though this may just be incidental.
     
  14. rustedroot

    rustedroot Chieftain

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    Jan 27, 2012
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    I am a bit unclear on what tech to partial research any why. Say for the first wave of RAs, right before you sign, should ever tech available be partially researched?
     
  15. vexing

    vexing knows

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    partial research is unnecessary. it is just a way to optimize cost by staying in the classical era so RAs cost only 200 gold.
     
  16. Willburn

    Willburn Chieftain

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    Thanks for the article. Great read.
     
  17. pontias

    pontias Chieftain

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    thx very much vexing.

    just been trying this. what time do you roughly start these off - I'm starting first phase of 5 at about turn 91.
    Stuggling to get the money to carry on with the next 5 so they were a bit drips and drabs. do you go straight into the next phase as the 1st ones expire?
     
  18. vexing

    vexing knows

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    90ish is a good start time.
    it's very game dependent. preferably you can just keep on signing each round in succession, but how broke the AI is and how lucky you are with luxuries and wars can make that infeasible. for a science victory, note that you can have a break in sub waves as your first goal is getting to apollo, and it's not benefited by completing more techs. so second and third wave can be sign 4-5 then wait ten turns to sign the rest.
     
  19. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Chieftain GOTM Staff

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    i just screwed up with my median values i think. i signed 2 RAs, one at 47 and 48. when it was time to resolve, the 4 techs open were:

    Mining - 35 beakers
    Sailing - 59 beakers
    Mathematics - 104 beakers
    Education - 533 beakers

    The median ended up being 50% of 163 (59 + 104) for a total of 81.5. I thought i'd complete both sailing and optics, but it only got me to 2 turns left (of 3) on optics. If i hadn't finished theology and instead went for compass, my medians would have been between Theology and Mathematics for a higher total.

    Note to self: the top margin value shouldn't be 2 tree branches ahead of the 2nd one if 2 branches that are 1 tech behind is an option. Gonna reload from 20 turns back to try it again to see the results. It's a good experiment for me.

    Just when I thought I had the medians down, I didn't.
     
  20. hazman79

    hazman79 Chieftain

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    What they said - I'm not thick, but this kind of maths does my head in. Watching a short vid of someone do it properly, would be most satisfactory.
     

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