Research Request(s)

According to Encyclopedia Galactica it appears even transcedentals are nostalgic enough to keep primitive/low/medium tech stuff circulating around.

I guess we can apply their logic there too so we don't have to obsolete any natural/map resource :p

Viva la Caveman2Clarketech?
Cosmos is middle name considering you are preparing for journey into space in middle of tech tree.
 
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According to Encyclopedia Galactica it appears even transcedentals are nostalgic enough to keep primitive/low/medium tech stuff circulating around.

I guess we can apply their logic there too so we don't have to obsolete any natural/map resource :p

Viva la Caveman2Clarketech?
Cosmos is middle name considering you are preparing for journey into space in middle of tech tree.

It's very Obvious that pepper's Space modmod inclusion into the main mod is far from complete and/or balanced.

I think you just like to clutter up threads raxo. :rolleyes:
 
It's very Obvious that pepper's Space modmod inclusion into the main mod is far from complete and/or balanced.

I think you just like to clutter up threads raxo. :rolleyes:
I know, I was suggesting that there is no need for resource obsoletion.
Instead of it there would be assumption, that resource always exist after certain point - as in civilization can manufacture/trade it effortlessly.

Azurian would be very proud of Pepper for making space content.
This mod is named Caveman2Cosmos even though there was no actual cosmos part for 8 - 10 years at first place :p
 
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I think we can do away with the bonus Nets. I need a building Net Maker as an extension to the Hunting Tradition building to provide an equipment promotion to all Hunter units (land and sea). The buildings that currently require the bonus can be made to require this building anywhere in the nation, ie it does not need to be in the city you want to build those buildings.
 
This mod is named Caveman2Cosmos even though there was no actual cosmos part for 8 - 10 years at first place
Cosmos was the Future Era after Modern era for a long long time. We did not have any other Eras past modern but Future for years and years. Might have been best if it had been left that way.
 
I think we can do away with the bonus Nets. I need a building Net Maker as an extension to the Hunting Tradition building to provide an equipment promotion to all Hunter units (land and sea). The buildings that currently require the bonus can be made to require this building anywhere in the nation, ie it does not need to be in the city you want to build those buildings.
It is valid to consider we can sometimes remove a bonus by replacing it with a building. Nets strike me as very equipmentable goods - something we can play on for equipment. They also strike me as something that can improve food at a fisherman's market (for supplying the private fishers.) I wouldn't jump at removal but we can certainly put it in the removable category.
 
Cosmos was the Future Era after Modern era for a long long time. We did not have any other Eras past modern but Future for years and years. Might have been best if it had been left that way.
I was joking with name change.

RoM had Transhuman and Galactic eras.
Then these two eras got split in three when pepper was making his space program - Transhuman became Information/Nanotech/Transhuman and Galactic became Galactic/Cosmic/Transcendent.
 
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I have suggestion for papyrus resource problem @Dancing Hoskuld
Make papyrus manufactured resource.
Cultures requiring papyrus would need to lose papyrus requirement and just require terrain and/or feature needed for papyrus resource.
There would be building producing papyrus, that gets obsoleted in Industrial era and would have same terrain/feature requirements as papyrus resource.
 
I have suggestion for papyrus resource problem @Dancing Hoskuld
Make papyrus manufactured resource.
Cultures requiring papyrus would need to lose papyrus requirement and just require terrain and/or feature needed for papyrus resource.
There would be building producing papyrus, that gets obsoleted in Industrial era and would have same terrain/feature requirements as papyrus resource.
But papyrus is the plant and the finished product.
 
But papyrus is the plant and the finished product.
Well Fruits, Vegetables, Lizards and few other plant/animal/mineral resources are done as manufactured resource, that you get by having pair of resources in city vicinity.
 
It appears decision about removing ash (this resource was already removed) was premature, as there are a lot of manufactured resources, that are completely unused.
For example dried fish/meat/fruit are completely unused by anything.

Also some resources have huge gap of availability.
Lets take dried meat.
It can be made by dried meat maker
Dried meat maker requires smoke house (obsoleted by refrigeration, industrial) or drying frame (obsolete by industrialism, modern).
This means you can't make dried meat somewhere on beginning of Modern era.
Then you can make dried meat much much later in building called Food Manufacturing District (augment consumables, nanotech).
 

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It appears decision about removing ash (this resource was already removed) was premature, as there are a lot of manufactured resources, that are completely unused.
For example dried fish/meat/fruit are completely unused by anything.

Also some resources have huge gap of availability.
Lets take dried meat.
It can be made by dried meat maker
Dried meat maker requires smoke house (obsoleted by refrigeration, industrial) or drying frame (obsolete by industrialism, modern).
This means you can't make dried meat somewhere on beginning of Modern era.
Then you can make dried meat much much later in building called Food Manufacturing District (augment consumables, nanotech).
Finding all of these is a big part of the reason we're having this discussion.

If you want to do up a spreadsheet that catalogues everything we're discussing here on a form on google docs, that'd be awesome.
 
X grid is derived from here, era borders are listed here
So supply/demand report should be like this:?
Only 5 manufactured resources doesn't have unlock tech, could Bugs be unlocked by Scavenging, it already unlocks 20 different resources anyway.
Spoiler Special goods :

Spoiler Used only for trade - Not usable by City :

Spoiler Liangzhu Jades (X0) - not accessible in game :

It has 1 supplier and no consumers
Liangzhu Jade Carver - Unlock by Carving (X8), Obsolete by Plastics (X74)
Liangzhu (Asian) culture required by producer is unbuildable.
Culture and producer needs Jade (Map Resource) to function.

Conclusion:
This resource is designed solely for trading.
Resource doesn't exist in game yet as you can't build cultural requirement.


Spoiler Olmec Jade Figurines (X0) :

It has 1 supplier and no consumers
Olmec Jade Carver - Unlock by Carving (X8), Obsolete by Plastics (X74)
Olmec (North American) culture required for producer is unlocked by Megalith Construction (X16)
Culture and producer needs Jade (Map Resource) to function.

Conclusion:
This resource is designed solely for trading.
This resource is effectively available at X16.


Spoiler Shang Jade Ritual Items (X0) :

It has 1 supplier and no consumers
Shang Jade Carver - Unlock by Carving (X8), Obsolete by Plastics (X74)
Shnag (Asian) culture required for producer is unlocked by Sacrifice Cult (X23)
Culture and producer needs Jade (Map Resource) to function.

Conclusion:
This resource is designed solely for trading.
This resource is effectively available at X23.




Spoiler Used only in Space - You can make them only in space cities :



Spoiler Misc. - Used to place Improvement or Extinct animal emulator :

Spoiler Geoglyph Plans (X0) :

It has 1 supplier and no consumers.
Nazca Lines (WW) - Unlock by Mathematics (X33)

This resource allows to place special improvements.
Can't be traded.
Its only supplier is unlocked by Mathematics (X33)





Spoiler Bugs (X0) :

It has 48 suppliers and 1 consumer.
Suppliers:
Bug Catcher - Unlock by Scavenging (X3), Obsolete by Crop Rotation (X44)
All other 44 suppliers - Unlock by Sericulture (X26)/Gardening (X27)/Scavenging (X3), Obsolete by Agrichemicals (X75)
Some of them in addition to Silk in city vicinity they need one of following: Parrots, Bamboo, Kangaroo, Flax, Lobster, Almonds, Spices, Fish, Elephants, Pistachio, Coffee, Melons, Barley, Papaya, Corn, Indigo, Sugar, Wheat, Peyote, Resin, Dates, Shrimp, Rice, Incense, Cocoa, Murex, Mango, Cotton or Peyote+Tea.
Arboretum - Unlock by Botany (X58), Obsolete by Gaia Ecology (X116)
Lunar Bug Farm (SPACE) - Unlock by Lunar Manufacturing (X102)
Agroforest - Unlock by Environmental Economics (X107)
Agroforest produces Wood, Bamboo, Grass, Reeds and Straw too.

Consumers:
Entomology lab - Unlock by Zoology (X58), Obsolete by Biomimetics (X104)

Conclusion:
After Agrochemicals vast majority of producers are obsolete (midlife of consumer), but 1 valid consumer is here until end of life of this building.


Spoiler Charcoal (Controlled Fire, X3) :

It has 5 suppliers and 5 consumers.
Suppliers:
Wonder of Nature (Krakatoa) - Unlock by Language (X1).
Wonder of Nature (Krakatoa) produces Obsidian (Map Resource) too
Fire Pit - Unlock by Controlled Fire (X3), Obsolete by Fire Brigades (X42).
Bonfire - Unlock by Fire Making (X13), Obsolete by Firefighting (X65).
Imu - Unlock by Earth Oven (X14), Obsolete by Fire Brigades (X42).
Charcoal Burner - Unlock by Metal Casting (X25), Obsolete by Advanced Metallurgy (X74).

Consumers:
Forge - Unlock by Metal Casting (X25).
Forge can use Coal (Map Resource) instead. Produces Tools.
Hypocaust - Unlock by Central Heating (X30), Obsolete by Electricity (X67).
Hypocaust can use Coal or Prime Timber (Map Resources) or Wood instead.
Armourer - Unlock by Smithing (X42), Obsolete by Flintlock (X54).
Armourer needs one of following: Copper/Tin/Iron/Lead/Bronze/Brass Wares.
Steel Smelter - Unlocked by Crucible Steel (X47), Obsolete by Liquid Metals (X100).
Steel Smelter can use Coal (Map Resource) instead. Needs Iron Ingots. Produces Steel Ingots.
Foundry - Unlock by Metallurgy (X52),
Foundry can use Coal (Map Resource) instead. Produces Tools.

Conclusion:
Not counting Wonder of Nature this resource stops being produced at X74.
Producers are safe as all producers can be built much earlier than consumers.


Spoiler Carcass (Scavenging, X3) :

It has 51 suppliers and 6 consumers.
Suppliers:
X Hunter Camp (20 normal and 6 prehistoric) - Unlock by Hunting+Shelter Building (X6+X4), Obsolete by Sedentary Lifestyle (X19) or by Ecological Engineering (X94).
Mammoth/ (Woolly) Rhino Hunter Camp produces Ivory too.
X Herd (17) - Unlock by None/Canine/Poultry/Megafauna Domestication (X0/X14/X16/X17).
Herd - Bison/Camel/Cow/Deer/Donkey/Elephant/Horse/Pig/Ratite/Kangaroo/Sheep/Llama produces Bison/Camel/Cow/Deer/Donkey/Elephant+Ivory/Horse/Pig/Feathers+Eggs/Kangaroo/Sheep/Llama/Mammoth+Ivory (Map Resources except Ivory, Feather and Eggs) too
X Farm (5) - Unlock by Animal Husbandry/Trade (X15/X24), Obsolete by by Mainstream Cloning (X102)
Mammoth Trainer (World Wonder) - Unlock by Megafauna Domestication (X17), Obsolete by Armored Vehicles (x74)
Mammoth Trainer produces Ivory too.
Narwhal Hunting Camp - Unlock by Harpoon Making + Shelter Building (X17+X4) (second prereq most likely is redundant), Obsolete by Ecological Engineering (X94).
Narwhal Hunting Camp produces Ivory too.
Whaler's Dock - Unlock by Commercial Whaling (X46), Obsolete by Marine Architecture (X98).

To build X Herd you need subdued animal.
To build other supplier buildings you need one of these map (Natural) resources in city vicinity:
One animal resource needed: Cow, Bison, Pig, Deer, Elephants, Sheep, Kangaroo, Mammoth, Walrus, Whale.
Two animal resources near city needed: Deer+Horse, Deer+Beavers, Mammoth+Kangaroo, Poultry+Kangaroo, Mammoth+Bison, Elephants+Deer, Elephants+Bison, Mammoth+Deer, Mammoth+Llama, Bison+Sheep, Whale+Walrus, Poultry+Elephants, Poultry+Llama, Elephants+Horse, Mammoth+Pig, Elephants+Pig.

Consumers:
Slaughterhouse - Unlock by Cooking (X4)+Shelter Building (X4), Obsolete by Species Uplifting (X111).
Slaughterhouse can use Pelts or Poultry (Map Resource) instead. Produces Bone.
Skinner - Unlock by Skinning (X8)+Shelter Building (X4), Obsolete by Species Uplifting (X111).
Skinner produces Hide.
Pests (Crow) - Unlock by Sedentary Lifestyle (X19).
Pests (Crow) can use Grain instead.
Rendering Plant - Unlock by Commercial Whaling (X46), Obsolete by Species Uplifting (X111).
Rendering Plant produces Lard.
Taxidermist - Unlock by Zoology (X58), Obsolete by Species Uplifting (X111).
Taxidermist needs Chemicals too.
Poacher's Camp - Unlock by Wildlife Conservation (X65), Obsolete by Ecological Engineering (X94).
Poacher Camp can use Pelts instead.

Conclusion:
Shelter prereqs may be redundant in some cases.
Most of producers gets available during Prehistoric era.
Carcass is out of use at X111.


Spoiler Eggs (Scavenging, X3) :

It has 9 suppliers and 3 consumers.
Suppliers:
Nest Thief - Unlock by Scavenging (X3), Obsolete by Poultry Domestication (X16).
Herd-Poultry (Flock) - Unlock by Poultry Domestication (X16).
Herd-Ratite (Flock) - Unlock by Poultry Domestication (X16)+Megafauna Domestication (X17).
Duck Farm - Unlock by Poultry Domestication (X16), Obsolete by Mainstream Cloning (X102).
Duck Farm produces Feathers too.
Goose Farm - Unlock by Poultry Domestication (X16), Obsolete by Mainstream Cloning (X102).
Turkey Farm - Unlock by Poultry Domestication (X16), Obsolete by Mainstream Cloning (X102).
Chicken Coop - Unlock by Poultry Domestication (X16), Obsolete by Vertical Farming (X105).
Chicken Coop produces Feathers too.
Sea Turtle Egg Gatherer - Unlock by Fishing (X16), Obsolete by Vertical Farming (X105).
Synthetic Meat Bioreactor - Unlock by Replacement Organs (X97)

Consumers:
Omega Child Crew - Unlock by Tool Making (X4)+Cooperation (X3), Obsolete by Humanism (X51).
Omega Child Crew can use one of following instead: Raw Fish or Raw Meat or Map Resources - Mushrooms/Kava/Cocoa.
Diner - Unlock by Franchise (X78), Obsolete by Accelerated Germination (X106).
Diner needs Raw Meat too.
Pancake House - Unlock by Franchise (X78), Obsolete by Accelerated Germination (X106). Needs Flour too.
Pancake House needs Flour too.

Conclusion:
Omega Child Crew has very low risk of sudden shutdown on X16, but can be secured by other resources.
Eggs are out of use at X106.


Spoiler Cloth (Weaving, X3) :

It has 3 suppliers and 18 consumers.
Suppliers:
Weavers Hut - Unlock by Weaving (X3)+Shelter Building (X4), Obsolete by Globalization (X77).
Weaver's Hut needs one of following: Wool or Hemp/Flax/Silk/Cotton Fibers.
Cloth Factory - Unlock by Assembly Line (X65), Obsolete by Nanobotics (X105).
Cloth Factory needs one of following: Wool or Hemp/Flax/Silk/Cotton Fibers.
Textile Manufacturer - Unlock by Rapid Prototyping (X94).
Textile Manufacturer also produces Carpet, Cloth, Clothing, Hats and Shoes.

Consumers:
Rope Weaver's Hut - Unlock by Binding (X9).
Rope Weaver's Hut can use Leather instead. Produces Rope.
Hat Shop - Unlock by Personal Adornment (X10), Obsolete by Industrialism (X72).
Hat Shop can use Leather or Furs instead. Produces Hats.
Pest (Moths) - Unlock by Personal Adornment (X10).
Pest (Moths) can use Clothing instead.
Quilt Maker - Unlock by Sewing (X11), Obsolete by Assembly Line (X65).
Seamstress Hut - Unlock by Sewing (X11)+Shelter Building (X4), Obsolete by Industrialism (X72).
Seamstress Hut can use Leather, Furs or Hide instead. Produces Clothing.
Housing (Yurts) - Unlock by Portable Shelters (X12).
Housing (Yourts) can use Leather instead. Needs Wood.
Capture the Flag - Unlock by Hunting Tactics (X13)+Natural Pigments (X6), Obsolete by Team Sports (X54).
Sail Weaver - Unlock by Sailing (X17), Obsolete by Obsolete by Industrialism (X72).
Sail Weaver can use Leather instead. Produces Sails.
Puppet Theater - Unlock by Folk Dance (X21)+Folk Music (X21), Obsolete by Mass Media (X80).
Puppet Theater needs Wood too.
Ancient Embalmer - Unlock by Mummification (X23), Obsolete by Medicine (X67).
Ancient Embalmer also needs one of following: Olive Oil or Perfume or Map Resources - Salt or Incense.
Carpet Maker - Unlock by Aesthetics (X38), Obsolete by Globalization (X77).
Carpet Maker produces Carpets.
Paper Maker - Unlock by Paper (X46), Obsolete by Industrialism (X72).
Paper Maker can use Wood or Map Resources - Prime Timber or Papyrus. Produces Paper.
Textile Mill - Unlock by Replaceable Parts (X59), Obsolete by Globalization (X77).
Textile Mill can use Leather, Furs or Hide instead. Produces Clothing.
Carpet Factory - Unlock by Assembly Line (X65), Obsolete by Nanobotics (X105).
Carpet Factory produces Carpets.
Hat Factory - Unlock by Assembly Line (X65), Obsolete by Nanobotics (X105).
Hat Factory may use Plastic, Leather or Furs instead. Produces Hats.
Rope Factory - Unlock by Assembly Line (X65)+Plastics (X74).
Rope Factory can use Leather or Nylon instead.
Sail Factory - Unlock by Assembly Line (X65), Obsolote by Marine Architecture (X98).
Sail Factory can use Leather instead. Produces Sails.
Textile Factory - Unlock by Assembly Line (X65), Obsolete by Nanobotics (X105).
Textile Factory can use Leather or Fur or Hide instead. Produces Clothing.

Conclusion:
Actually you can get Cloth much later, as Weavers Hut (Cloth Factory too) needs Wool (X15) or one of Hemp (X20)/Cotton (X20)/Silk (X26)/Flax (X39) Fibers to work.
This means somme of earliest consumers must wait before Cloth gets unlocked.
Cloth is out of use at X105.


Spoiler Baskets (Basketry, X4) :

There are 2 suppliers and 5 consumers.
Suppliers:
Basketweaver's Hut - Unlock by Basketry (X4)+Shelter Building (X4).
Basketweaver's Hut can use one of following: Grass, Reeds, Bark, Vines or Straw instead.
Manufacturing District - Unlock by Rapid Prototyping (X94).
Manufacturing District produces Barrels, Baskets, Beads, Furniture, Glassware, Lacquerware, Porcelain Wares, Pottery, Rope, Sculptures, Terracotta Wares, Tires, Toys and Water Bottles too.

Consumers:
Omega Child Crew - Unlock by Tool Making (X4)+Cooperation (X3), Obsolete by Humanism (X51). Gets boost from Baskets.
Omega Child Crew gains additional boost from Pottery, Flint, Tools and Stone Tools too.
Fish Traps - Unlock by Trap Fishing (X9), Obsolete by Aquaculture (X83).
Fish Traps needs Nets too.
Aerial Basket Ropeways (NW) - Unlock by Arithmetic (X13), Obsolete by Machinery (X39).
Aerial Basket Ropeways (NW) can use Vines instead.
Eel Traps - Unlock by Fishing (X16), Obsolete by Unmanned Naval Vehicles (X93).
Eel Traps produces Raw Fish.
Fertility Festival (NW) - Unlock by Celebration (X17), Obsolete by Woman's Suffrage (X68).
Fertility Festival (NW) can use Furs instead.

Conclusion:
Basket Maker's Workshop and Basket Factory DON'T produce Baskets.
Baskets falls out of use by X93.
 
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Bugs - X = 0 (Only 5 manufactured resources doesn't have unlock tech, could be unlocked by Scavenging, it already unlocks 20 different resources anyway).
I want a lot more manufactured buildings to have no tech that unlocks them to "fix" the trade system in the late Renaissance and on. Otherwise you can't sell useful stuff to peoples who haven't developed the tech to make those goods themselves eg guns to the native peoples of the Americas during the European Invasion.
 
I want a lot more manufactured buildings to have no tech that unlocks them to "fix" the trade system in the late Renaissance and on. Otherwise you can't sell useful stuff to peoples who haven't developed the tech to make those goods themselves eg guns to the native peoples of the Americas during the European Invasion.

IIRC the "Reveal tech" would allow you to use a resource that you got your hands on (like from trading), but you need the "Improve tech" to actually connect it / produce it by yourself?
 
IIRC the "Reveal tech" would allow you to use a resource that you got your hands on (like from trading), but you need the "Improve tech" to actually connect it / produce it by yourself?
We are talking about manufactured resources not map resources that need improvements.

Reveal only shows the resource it does not allow you to trade or use it. It needs to be enabled for you to trade and use it. Allowing many of the manufactured resources to have no reveal or enabled tech means that they are usable for everyone no matter what their tech level. This would allow, for example, a nation to use rifles without the need for then to be able to make rifles. I don't think we have it set up that way but it would be more realistic. The tech tree would need to separate out what is needed for the equipment and what is needed for the unit. For example all swordsmen become available with a "sword technique" technology but which swordsman you build depends on what resources you have access to.
 
I want a lot more manufactured buildings to have no tech that unlocks them to "fix" the trade system in the late Renaissance and on. Otherwise you can't sell useful stuff to peoples who haven't developed the tech to make those goods themselves eg guns to the native peoples of the Americas during the European Invasion.
Then I would have list them alphabetically.
I would jump 5 eras back and forth.
If you open pedia, then you can see how sometimes you can find future and past resources next to each other.
I sorted them by tech unlock in my excel archive.

Resources should lose happiness/health bonus, if they are post Renaissance resource and they aren't locked by tech.
So you can sell computers to civ stuck in medieval era, but for them they would be completely useless.
There should be code telling AI, if they can make any use of this resource, that you want to sell.

You can't get Liangzhu culture at all by the way.
 
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So you can sell computers to civ stuck in medieval era, but for them they would be completely useless.
Except that is not true. There is a group that give computers to school children who don't even have electricity at home allowing them to access the world wide web. In some places the computer is the brightest source of light available in the house. We might not consider 1b/sec to be a good connection but it is much faster than nothing and they get access to the world! The computers are cheap and robust. They are wind-up and automatically search for and connect to other computers or networks. I have seen reports from South-East Asia and Saharan Africa where the pilot trials were done. This was a few years ago now 5 or 10 at most. They were not asking for money or anything so I don't think it was a scam, or at least not a scam aimed at individuals.
 
Except that is not true. There is a group that give computers to school children who don't even have electricity at home allowing them to access the world wide web. In some places the computer is the brightest source of light available in the house. We might not consider 1b/sec to be a good connection but it is much faster than nothing and they get access to the world! The computers are cheap and robust. They are wind-up and automatically search for and connect to other computers or networks. I have seen reports from South-East Asia and Saharan Africa where the pilot trials were done. This was a few years ago now 5 or 10 at most. They were not asking for money or anything so I don't think it was a scam, or at least not a scam aimed at individuals.
Well not right after computers are unlocked.
Computer resource can be anything from big old computers taking whole room to Amiga to PC to Supercomputers to laptops.
This resource is unlocked by Early Computing.
 
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