Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by kravixon, Mar 25, 2009.
This thread exists to plan, build, and analyze the map for the proposed RFC: Antiquity modmod.
The main things that need to be discussed right now are our map's dimensions and boundaries.
I for one propose that the map size be close to what my original map's size was. In particular, I'm really happy with both the shape and size of Greece and it's nearby islands in it. Greece shouldn't be squashed (nor should Italy, for that matter), and it really doesn't need to be bigger. In fact, I think the scale of most landmasses was pretty good. The map is meant for 12 civs, max 14, and there is already plenty of room in most places. Greece proper can already hold 6-7 good cities, so in the interest of game speed and redundancy I don't think the scale of most existing landmasses should really be larger, just changing where the map ends and skewing Spain and Africa to make it all fit.
I also don't think Ireland should be present, as the Romans never reached it, but that's a much smaller issue.
I think all the space below Egypt's borders is a waste, it's just one big dessert. Though 1 tile of water for passage for ships from eastern Egypt to the Arabian sea should remain.
Is it necessary to have all of Arabia in the map? Most of it will be a waste.
Also kravixon, if it'll be 12/14 civs it'd be better to discuss which civs will they be. As I said, if you have 3 in Mesopotamia that zone of the map must be big.
I'd have a bit more to the north, just to complete the Black Sea coast, the northern border of Britannia and the Oxus river in Central Asia; and a bit less to the west, only 1 or 2 tiles of sea next to Hispania and no Ireland.
Well, Idealy you would make a map ranging from Spain to the east to the Persian west border to the west and from Hadrians wall and southern Scandinavia on the north to southern egipt to the south.
I don't know if you think it is doable thou.
They're different in that instead of deforming some areas, they're downsized, so the focus is on the Middle East, Egypt and Greece.
The second image allows an indian civ, giving it a little room. Would be interesting to pack with luxury resources and give some meaning to having all the Red Sea to enable commerce.
ooo nice. I like the first one, but I still don't think we need that much land north. I don't really think India would be a good idea, as Alexander only won some battles at its borders and I can see the Persian player just always having a monopoly on luxury goods since it's right next door and inaccessible from the south or east.
The civ list is not final, but for Mesopotamia there would really only be Babylon and Assyria, and maybe an independent Ur or Uruk. Persia's to the east, and the next civs to the west would be the phoenicians/maybe Israel.
What about the tilted map suggestion? It would help clear much potentially useless map from both north and south.
Here's another way.
Jet, the lower map seems to be best, enlarging Greece and Italy, without too much waster space north and south.
The englarged Greece/Italy is nice, but I like JediClemente's non-warped picture. Anyone with photoshop able to enlarge Greece in that one?
Cethegus- These maps cover the same area and solve the same problem as the slant, only these are slightly distorted to allow things to appear how they would on a map.
Edit: I changed Spain so it wasn't so obviously distorted. I really like this map idea. And because I had a few minutes before class I colored the map to see what it would be like if nobody managed to die off. Don't take it too seriously
I like that it looks real, even if the resize is quite evident; but the other one is too distorted. Now bigger Greece (I think it's already big, more than that would be pushing it) and narrower Anatolia.
Jet's one is not that much different. The only things I don't really like are Arabia and Eastern Persia. Too weird.
So I assume kravixon you think about including Egypt, Babylon, Assiria, Hittites, Persia, Phoenicians, Carthago, Athens, Sparta, Macedon, Rome and Celts?
I'd also have Greco-Bactrians, now that either map allows them. And I'm not so sure about playable Celts. They're quite limited.
But who would settle the greek colonies?
The small indian part (Indus valley) should be allowed to respawn as independents.
I'm really excited about this.
On this thread, we should also discuss civilizations. So in the OP you should include Definite and Proposed. Here's my list:
-Lydia (could incorporate Pergamum as DN)
-Greco-Bactrian- (Seems kind of pointless IMO, Maybe independent?)
-Medes (could be Persia DN)
-Parthia (could be Persia DN)
-Syracusae- They only inhabited one island, right?
-Epirus- Weren't the Epirotes just tribes/barbarians?
-Pontus- Could this be replaced by just Spartan/Athenian colonies?
Some of the Proposed are just Dynamic Names of eachother.
*-I'm a strong advocate for. Especially Etruria.
-Gauls/Celts or separated.
-Indus Valley (Mostly depending on extent of map. Just being proposed as a Comp civ.)
-Barbarians- Germans, Huns, Vandals, Goths, etc.
These are open for debate.
I um... have a confession to make... I don't know how to make my own map.
I know... I know... pathetic.
But anyway, do I just edit the world builder of a custom game?
How do I upload a save?
What size should I start out with?
Correct, Jedi. Though I see a strong case for a later spawning Germanic civ also.
Zach- two things:
1)As for size, everyone here should open up the worldbuilder save that I included in the first post. Inspect the sizes of the different landmasses. Look at how many tiles make up Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Anatolia, Spain, etc. Then compare it to what you have in mind, to RFC, and to RFCE if you've played it. Then come back and report on what you think of it's actual dimensions. I like how big Greece and Italy and the islands are now, I think they're about perfect for what kind of scale we need.
2) As for making the map, we should wait until step one is completed by at least a few people. I was planning on making the core of the map again and then fixing it up collectively. If that is indeed the route that is taken, I'd still need a lot of help in adding actual geography to the map and fixing up certain places as micbic helped out with Greece. Regardless, check out this for the run down on how to make/save new scenarios.
We should use site for reference:
It may be one of the greatest archives of maps ever made!
It can drastically help us filter out the best possible civilizations for Antiquity.
kravixon, I've looked at the last WBsave again and I think the main areas sizes are okay, mainly Greece and Mesopotamia. I think Anatolia (Turkey) is too large, though, and the Aegean sea almost a small lake.
600 BC: Syracusae
550 BC: Gaul Celts (we are already at 16), Nubia (depends on map), Medea--->Persia
500 BC: Estruscan---> Roman, Macedonia
300 BC: Babylon--->Seleucide Kingdom, Epirus
200 BC: Persia--->Parthia, Lydia---> Pergamum
150 BC: Goths
100 BC: Urartu---> Armenia , Pontus
1 AD: Briton Celts
22 civs. Sure some of them are droppable, unless you guys scope to a smaller map size
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