RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Panopticon]

The Polish UHV is a bit annoying, because literally all your work on building population is wiped out after every plague. My empire of size 7-9 cities diminished to size 1. Having said that, I'm sure it's possible to rebuild. But what does plague add to the game?

 

[embryodead]

It's realistic, historical and alters the balance of the game much like the real event did. I can't imagine a medieval mod without it.

Ironically, Poland was pretty much the only major country spared by the Black Death, which did contribute to the fact that it emerged as a major power later (though I don't think the game should be that deterministic and protect Poland).

 

[Panopticon]

It's realistic, historical and alters the balance of the game much like the real event did. I can't imagine a medieval mod without it.

Ironically, Poland was pretty much the only major country spared by the Black Death, which did contribute to the fact that it emerged as a major power later (though I don't think the game should be that deterministic and protect Poland).

Certainly not; there's no reason to exclude Poland, even though it means the UHV goal is asking players to pursue the effect of differential European populations without including the cause. Having said that, how realistic and historical is the death of 90% of my population? Plague is hard.

I have decided to give up on the Polish UHV; it's just not fun compared to other UHVs. The problems:
1. Plague makes your efforts worthless right up until after the last one.
2. Poland needs more food to grow an extra population point than any other European playable civ.
3. It's harder to re-grow your population after plague than in RFC, because Granary/Folwark only stores 25% of food. Storehouse is quite expensive.
4. Poland also gets a big penalty to production, so it's hard to build Folwark and Storehouse in the first place.
5. For a civ with a population-based UHV, there isn't all that much extra food around. Poznan has lots of plains, south of it are lots of hills.

I believe that the balance penalties and other hindrances are necessary to stop the Polish AI from dominating, but it makes the game frustrating from my perspective, so I am going to finish the Ottoman UHV instead.

 

[kochman]

Having said that, how realistic and historical is the death of 90% of my population? Plague is hard.

This is true, and a problem in regular RFC as well.
Most cities go down to 1s when they get the plague... This is unrealistic, isn't it?
Perhaps it could knock you down as far as 66%... per plague. And, this goes for all civs, I believe the plague was an equal opportunity killer.

 

[merijn_v1]

OK, good to know CAR is in there now.

Is there an art error on the Genoan Bank? Like I said, the game crashed when I selected it for the build queue, which usually indicates a problem with the art.

Sedna17 fixed it. You should do this change got solve the problem. Go to:
C:/Firaxis/Civ4/BTS/Mods/RFCE/Assets/XML/Art/CIV4ArtDefines_Building.xml
Then find the Genoan Bank. Replace
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Buildings/Genoan_bank.dds</Button>
with
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Buildings/Genoan_bank.dds</Button> (delete the , )

 

[kochman]

Excellent.

 

[fireclaw722]

I got an idea for a 'Papal War' type thing:
-A player(or AI) can send troops to 'raid' the Papal states(without war), but can't capture Roma.
-Roma will immeadiately be returned to the Papal States and the Pope will pay a lump some of money to the 'raiding player'

Positives:

Spoiler :

-the Player gains money
-Islamic Nations gain Faith Points for 'Raiding' the Pope
-Gain modifier boost with Non-Catholic Nations(or should it be all Christians?)

Negatives:

Spoiler :

-Catholic nations lose faith points for 'raiding' the Pope
-Negitive Modifiers with Catholic Nations
-When bieng raided the Pope can call a 'Pope Defence' type of 'Crusade', giving the Players(or AI)'s that are Catholic a choice to raise Faith Points, by helping to defend the Pope, or gain nor lose none, by not helping at all(Players who help the Pope gain positive modifiers with Catholic Nations that participated in the defence of Roma).
-Also, if the 'Raider' is Catholic, or has any Catholic cities, those cities get an unhappiness bonus in their cities

This could also allow the Player to be the Papal States(it wouldn't add a civ, but just allow the player to be them):
-UHV's:

Spoiler :

1. Don't allow Rome to be Sacked/Raided(sucsessfully)[didn't happen]
2. Spread Catholosism to 40% of Europe[happened]
3. Call 2 Crusades, that are sucsessful(that isn't redirected elsewhere)[Happened]

-UP:
Power of Pope:

Spoiler :

Roma is Automatically given back for a small price if 'raided', and the Player can call a crusade(a button in the Domestic or Militarial advisor)(Jerusalem is always in vision while the player can call a crusade)

UB:

UU's:

Spoiler :

Pope's Pioneer(for lack of a better name):
is free and cost Faith Points(alot since the Pope never settled any territory)

-AND-​

Papal Pikeman(just to keep up with the Alliteration):
Gains defencive bonus in city

This would add alot to the Gameplay of RFC:E(as it will add some things that aren't[and probably ever won't be] in Civilization).

 

[kochman]

Some of this is pretty good... but some of it makes no sense.
A raid on the Pope adding faith points to Islam makes little sense. Nor should it make other faiths stronger...

I do somewhat agree with no actual capturing of Rome... but getting money when you successfully sack the city.
Now, in history, this isn't how it happened of course, there were times when the Papacy was basically ruled by the temporal powers... Perhaps this could be allowed, but the city, being Rome, always would have a huge chance of instability/rebelling, making it not even worth trying to hold on to...

The idea of excommunication should probably be introduced if you do this. Some kind of modification of what happens if you refuse resolutions... where all the Catholics hate you. You attack the Pope, you get excommunicated. You win, well, you are no longer excommunicated... something like in Total War Europe... when you conquer Rome, the Pope is killed... you are now ok...

 

[Wessel V1]

I don't have too much problems with these plagues being so hard, but what I do find annoying is that it is also not possible to build a reliable cottage economy. When the structure is finally upraded to a town, plague strikes again. Frustrating.

 

[fireclaw722]

Some of this is pretty good... but some of it makes no sense.
A raid on the Pope adding faith points to Islam makes little sense. Nor should it make other faiths stronger...

I do somewhat agree with no actual capturing of Rome... but getting money when you successfully sack the city.
Now, in history, this isn't how it happened of course, there were times when the Papacy was basically ruled by the temporal powers... Perhaps this could be allowed, but the city, being Rome, always would have a huge chance of instability/rebelling, making it not even worth trying to hold on to...

The idea of excommunication should probably be introduced if you do this. Some kind of modification of what happens if you refuse resolutions... where all the Catholics hate you. You attack the Pope, you get excommunicated. You win, well, you are no longer excommunicated... something like in Total War Europe... when you conquer Rome, the Pope is killed... you are now ok...

I meant that other civs that help defend the Pope get extra faith points.

 

[FakeShady]

Anyone in support of the idea to change Venetian UHVs??

I really only have 3 complains about Venice's UHVs:

1. Its too easy

2. Its completed too early (1570)
AND
3. Venice has no incentive to build its wonder (St Marco Basilica) nor does Venice have an incentive to become a "Bank of Europe" kinda civ

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yeah a lot of civs' UHVs need to be reworked, to make them harder and more challenging.
I don't agree with the "too early" part though, since usually the player just achieves the UHV hundreds of years early and then has to wait in boredom.

 

[Jusos2108]

Yeah a lot of civs' UHVs need to be reworked, to make them harder and more challenging.
I don't agree with the "too early" part though, since usually the player just achieves the UHV hundreds of years early and then has to wait in boredom.

I totally agree with this. The UHVs need a lot of work. They are way too easy and the waiting is really annoying for some civs (like Arabia, France, Spain...). If players want to play a full game they don't need to complete UHVs, they can aim towards another victory.

 

[Ekolite]

The UHV's (probably all of them really) need to be changed to be more difficult and challenging. UHV's should be a puzzle, some with multiple paths to victory, and some more single-minded. Just think about the Babylonian UHV for example, it all comes down to timing, skill and a little bit of luck, and this is exactly how it should be.

There should be particular gambits involving wonders, great person bulbling, well-timed golden ages etc etc and at the moment these don't seem to exist.

 

[FakeShady]

Yeah a lot of civs' UHVs need to be reworked, to make them harder and more challenging.
I don't agree with the "too early" part though, since usually the player just achieves the UHV hundreds of years early and then has to wait in boredom.

Yes, but the last UHV is normally a "what-if-it-survives" kinda thing. For example, the Byzantines were conquered at 1453, but its last UHV is 1500.

Similarly, the Venetians should also have a last UHV that is something like "what-if-it-survives", so i'm thinking 1700 is a good year. Of cos, this has been discussed before.

But anyway, in the case of Venice, their UHV should encourage the Venetian player to do certain historical things, in this case collect gold. If you think about it, all the Venetian actions in history were very money-oriented (securing lucrative trade routes at all costs, crusades, sacking Constantinople etc. These actions are all majorly motivated by money.)

 

[kochman]

Similarly, the Venetians should also have a last UHV that is something like "what-if-it-survives", so i'm thinking 1700 is a good year. Of cos, this has been discussed before.

The Venetian Republic lasted until 1789 AD historically.

 

[merijn_v1]

I recently started playing RFCE again. My first game was Kiev.

Kiev:
- Germany survived the first turn and became very strong.
- France was THE superpower. It was in my Portugal game too. Venice was in both games 2nd.
- I had Portugal and England as vassal state. (both voluntary)
- The Norse expanded into Sweden (in both games) with several cities.
- Spain conquered Cordoba (finally).
- Genoa settle Corse and Sardinia.

Portugal:
- France was as I said THE superpower, Venice was 2nd.
- Venice WON the Historical Victory (in 1344 AD)
- I conquered Spain very early. Not much later I conquered Cordoba. (still doing that, but Venice already won)
- England settle about 6 cities in Nothern-Brittain. (See screens)
- Germany collapsed (again) in the first turn, but respawned at Konstanz (capital) and Lubeck.
- Venice settled on many islands. (see Screens)
- Burgundy conquered Naples.
- France conquered Jerusalem. (according to other posts, the crusade work, but Arabia shouldn't collapse immediately if someone captures Jerusalem)
- The barbarian tried to build a wonder. (Marco Polo ambassy at Palermo)

 

[Ekolite]

Wow, it's obvious that Venice is really perfoming very well now, although the fact that the AI can win the UHV reasonably easilly is a sign that it needs to be made more challenging. Genoa is still under-performing unfortunately.

 

[Wessel V1]

Yes, but the last UHV is normally a "what-if-it-survives" kinda thing. For example, the Byzantines were conquered at 1453, but its last UHV is 1500.

It is more like a "what happened if it developed another way". It is dull to wait until 1500 simply because Constantinople couldn't get conquered earlier. While Venice was finished in 1789 AD, I don't think there should be a survival goal. Even if left empty, Venice can probably be kept free from foreign powers.

Some time ago I suggested some "alternative" UHV goals, like a Portuguese or Norse goal: settle on at least 10 (12?) different land masses, or an Austrian / Hungarian: conquer a city from at least 6 different civs. Those were rejected back then, but if we need some goals that are different, we may use them still.

 

[KaiserKevin]

I agree with Venice UHVs needing to be more challenging, maybe something about taking Constantinople or controlling all the previous coast + Italy (-Rome)