RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Gruekiller]

A thought: it'd be nice if the area around Narbonne in southern France was within the Cordobans' settleable zone, since their predecessor, the Umayyad Caliphate, controlled the area for a period of several decades in the 8th Century. I'm loving the new patch. Played as Burgundy and took over all of France, Western Germany, and Northern Italy before my stability began to slip.

 

[micbic]

@The Turk, kochman, FakeShady

Guys thank you! Your personal attacks to each other brought interest from other people to the thread who posted their opinions about what should be fixed! So pls do it more frequently!!!

@Wessel_V1

You mean that the yellow spots on the Spanish map are under represented? If yes we should fix the normal map so that the yellow tiles are the best for city building!

@The Turk

Indeed the mod is not at its best. But hey, we are doing what we can! We released a Beta, which is a slight improvement. As for your constant requests for new features/balanicing I am afraid that bugfixing has to go first. Aaaand (@kochman and @FakeShady as well) aaalways look on the bright side of life...

PS1 Opening obviously ironic. Pls stop it, if you feel too offended pls do it by PMs

PS2 Turk, could you give a list of what would you fix if you were at mod leadership?

PS3 @All How about doing some polls if a disagreement arises over some topic?

 

[Wessel V1]

Yes, they should be the best for cityfounding. Two yellow tiles with only one tile between them is not the best solution. In my opinion, there are even too many yellow spots, which leads to historical accurate but rather predictabel behaviour. Some should be encouraged but not as many as possible, like it currently seems to be.

 

[micbic]

Noted, and put on todo list. Tnx!

 

[civ_king]

Leorth figured out how to make a tiles display stability

 

[Wessel V1]

Never mind.

 

[FakeShady]

PS3 @All How about doing some polls if a disagreement arises over some topic?

Finally! YES PLEASE

 

[Morholt]

Finished Poland, UHV is not too difficult but I think it is in line with the other UHVs. I still think Poland should be beefed a bit, they are somewhat useless as AI. Start with more techs + catholic missionary?
Also, Riga spawns in the wrong spot still. It is supposed to be on the Dvina.

 

[FakeShady]

After seriously much testing, i have decided that these 3 UHVs are the best for Venice and in terms of historical and playability:

1) Control Constantinople by 1204
2) Control the Dalmatia coast and have a city in Crete, Cyprus, Greece and Rhodes by 1500
3) Control 10 luxury resources and build the St Marco Basilica by 1570

These UHVs are what i believe will give a most "Venice-like" Venice.

Other feedback: Genoa is gold-crazy. Its almost impossible for any other civ to control the crusade. Please do something about its AI. Please. And Poland and Hungary are pretty weak now. But of cos, they're not as "under-represented" as Turkey, even though they start with 10 times less units. LOL

Good job weakening Constantinople. Now it cant even defend itself from common threats before 1300. 8/10 of the games in Beta 2 Constantinople is not under Byzantine control by 1300. Most of the time Bulgaria has it, making it extremely strong in the game. Hungary is sad, it keeps on getting bullied by its Bulgarian neighbour.

And why not, the plague has already reduced all of Byzantium's cities to SIZE ONE!! If i was Bulgaria, i would absolutely conquer all of Byzantium's cities too, WHY NOT? And lets not forget, Byzantium's city growth rate is "EXTREMELY FAST"!! LOL irony intended.

Byzantium is definitely THE most under-represented civ in the game. But some people who claim they speak for the under-represented civs are just gonna happily ignore that fact. Yep

This is a VERY contructive post. I hope it doesnt just get ignored again, but i gotta feeling thats gonna happen. You guys tend to ignore the relevant posts and focus on the irrelevant posts, and then go on to say "you guys post irrelevant posts". LOL.

 

[ezzlar]

FakeShady:

Goal two of Venice seems a bit weak. Year 1500 to settle a few islands the AI never cares about? And viping that independent city on the dalmatian coast. Maybe 12xx for that one and Constantinopel by 1300?

 

[FakeShady]

FakeShady:

Goal two of Venice seems a bit weak. Year 1500 to settle a few islands the AI never cares about? And viping that independent city on the dalmatian coast. Maybe 12xx for that one and Constantinopel by 1300?

Feedback!! COOL.

year 1204 for Constantinople is because of historical accuracy. Of course, if its by 1300 its would suggest that Venice is expected to hold on to Constantinople after capturing it. So maybe it should be something like:

1) Control Constantinople in 1300

then anything is possible. The Venice player can control it by crusade during 1100 and hold it for 200 years, or capture it in 1299, whatever. 1300 sounds okay to me

2) I wanted to suggest an earlier date for the settling and capturing of those few islands, but the problem is Bulgaria. Bulgaria in my games are extremely strong, they have too many weak cities around them that are easily conquered, and they often control Constantinople and even the Balkans peninsula in less than 10 turns of their spawn, preventing me from leaving the Adriatic Sea without having open borders with them. The thing is, they are almost always at war with me. Either that, or they covered all of Greece, leaving me with no room to settle. Arabia also likes to conquer Rhodes, and even if they collapse, they will almost always respawn, hard as it may be for some to believe. In other words, from my experience to complete the UHV of controlling the Dalmatia coast, and having a city in Greece, Crete, Cyprus and Rhodes is easier said than done as war with Bulgaria and/or Arabs is almost inevitable. Unless of course, Bulgaria is weakened or something... but that is unnecessary. Just make those cities around Bulgaria less vulnerable would be a much better option.

3) No comments on the 3rd UHV? i hope the modders see that post. It would make Venice a great civ to play.

 

[ezzlar]

FakeShady:

If you aim all resources at conquering the independent city and then settle a city south of it in Greece, you have all the coast and a city in Greece. Bulgaria might declare war but they wont settle any more cities on the coast. Settling the islands is a piece of cake after that.

Goal three seems fun!

 

[Power_of_Beer]

Byzantine cities dont grow very fast or produce a lot, but their tech rate is just insane: they ALWAYS have gunpowder around 1150, mostly earlier. Not that it matters a lot, they don't build any wonders anyway, but its just unrealistic to see their caravels in the 12th century ...

Another small thing: The ability to build culture comes way too early, with a way too cheap tech. Its so easy to quickly expand your borders. It should come a bit later in the tech tree. Maybe Patronage, or Monument Building.

 

[thwump]

Is there a reason not to combine controlling constantinople and the coast/islands in one requirement? You have to fudge the year a bit but since its all 'control' that allows you to have another requirement that would be interesting.

 

[AdrienIer]

Maybe controlling Constantinople BY 1300 would be better. And you could have the first UHV (IN this time) earlier as you don't have to hold on Constantinople like your life depended on its control.

 

[Opera]

About some earlier post on Spain being a bit OP.

I got the feeling that both France and Spain can get very strong if they manage to take control of all their historical land. France may need to expand into Spain; but Iberia really is a good land.

I'd say that the issue here with the mod (as I see it) is a lack of conflict. In some regions it's good enough: Iberia for instance, with Portugal, Cordoba and Spain, though usually it settles down fast because of Cordoba's unavoidable fall and Spain/Portugal friendship; the Balkans: Bulgaria, Hungary, Constantinople, eventually the Ottomans.

However most civilizations are isolated, or kinda: France, with the exception (perhaps) of Germany; Moscow; Kiev; England.

Just talking about my feelings; not sure they're right.

 

[OldGuard]

Is it possible to increase Cordoba's stability? Too often Spain becomes a powerhouse since no one challenges him in Iberia. Once Cordoba falls to instability, as it so often is, Spain techs rather quickly and builds almost all of the colony projects, making the Dutch UHV that much harder. It took Spain nearly 700 years to complete the Reconquista. In RFCE, it finishes a few turns after the Spanish spawn due to Cordoba's instability.

 

[kochman]

Is it possible to increase Cordoba's stability? Too often Spain becomes a powerhouse since no one challenges him in Iberia. Once Cordoba falls to instability, as it so often is, Spain techs rather quickly and builds almost all of the colony projects, making the Dutch UHV that much harder. It took Spain nearly 700 years to complete the Reconquista. In RFCE, it finishes a few turns after the Spanish spawn due to Cordoba's instability.

Yes, this is the essence of what I was saying... in fact, until the colonial projects, Spain was a backwater really...

The colonial projects, however, will not change this...
So, end idea...
Weaken Spain overall (stronger Cordoba would help, and stronger Portugal, bigger flips in particular)... and make France declare war somehow... and whatever it takes.
THEN, bigger bonuses for colonial projects... and yes, I understand this would effect the overall balance... but something has to be done, that was just one idea.

 

[FakeShady]

ok, so for Venice, how about:

1) Control, Constantinople, Dalmatia coast, and have a city in Greece, Cyprus, Crete and Rhodes by..... 1450 should be fair.
-Wow thats a really long UHV!
-The purpose of this UHV is obviously, historical accuracy, and for Venice to establish a naval trade monopoly around certain parts of the Mediterranean.
-by 1450 or in 1450?

2) Control 10 luxury resources and build the St Marco Basilica by... 1570
-Main purpose of this UHV to encourage Venice to build both the Marco Polo Embassy, and St Marco Basilica, both which are "historically" in Venice
-Number of resources required increased from 8 to 10 as its rather easy for Venice to get luxury resources once they get the islands required for the first UHV
-Venice in real life history is also key to the trade of many luxury resources
-by 1570 or in 1570?

3) NOT DECIDED YET! I still think "get X gold by Y date" UHV will be good, but i heard a lot of people are against that, though im still not sure why. I of course will like to hear suggestions for Venice's 3rd UHV, but i will appreciate it if you give reasons as to why you think this certain UHV you thought of will make a good 3rd UHV.

Usually, not all the time, but usually the 3rd UHV is the one which the civ never really accomplished in real life, but would definitely have done it had certain factors gone their way. I will also appreciate it if this 3rd UHV makes the Venice we see in the game more "Venice-like", if you know what i mean.

 

[OldGuard]

Someone brought this up earlier in the thread but no one answered, or at least I couldn't find any replies, but are the executive units of the knight orders suppose to upgrade to pikemen? Once I got the tech for pikemen, I could no longer spread the Teutonic Order or any of the orders for that matter.