RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Ambreville]

I noticed the new city fortification (star fort). It uses high walls graphics around the city. Is this a temporary graphics? The point of the star fort was its low profile to avoid making great big targets for enemy cannons. As such it should probably not give defense bonuses in addition to the old walls (I have a city with 265% fortification bonus). It should perhaps allow fortification bonuses against gunpowder units only.

Also, by the late 1490's, I've seen only one Plague. The problem with this (besides historical) is that all the civs tend to spam the map with units, and it slows game processing between turns. Plagues are a good way to delete a lot of fat around the map.

 

[kochman]

I noticed the new city fortification (star fort). It uses high walls graphics around the city. Is this a temporary graphics? The point of the star fort was its low profile to avoid making great big targets for enemy cannons. As such it should probably not give defense bonuses in addition to the old walls (I have a city with 265% fortification bonus). It should perhaps allow fortification bonuses against gunpowder units only.

Also, by the late 1490's, I've seen only one Plague. The problem with this (besides historical) is that all the civs tend to spam the map with units, and it slows game processing between turns. Plagues are a good way to delete a lot of fat around the map.

OK, I think you misunderstand the concept of the star fort.
They really weren't low profile, they were at least 10m high at all the versions I have visited. They have the shape to allow for better mutually supported firing positions to aid in the defense, and the walls, backed with earth now, were way stronger. Those last two items mean that having the bonuses apply only versus gunpowder makes no sense...
More like, impervious to non-gunpowder is more realistic! It most certainly should add to previous defenses!

 

[Ambreville]

OK, I think you misunderstand the concept of the star fort.
They really weren't low profile, they were at least 10m high at all the versions I have visited. They have the shape to allow for better mutually supported firing positions to aid in the defense, and the walls, backed with earth now, were way stronger. Those last two items mean that having the bonuses apply only versus gunpowder makes no sense...
More like, impervious to non-gunpowder is more realistic! It most certainly should add to previous defenses!

I quite certainly know what seventeenth-century star-shaped fortifications look like. They most certainly do not look like HIGH curtain walls, as depicted in the mod right now. Medieval curtain walls were indeed extremely vulnerable to cannon fire. Star-shaped fortifications were specifically designed in the RW to better withstand cannon fire, essentially since the better part of the structure remains protected behind an earthen glacis to deflect cannon shot. In the mod, the new fortification does not "replace" the old curtain walls (which it should), but it comes in addition to it! That's just plain wrong. Most cities in the RW got rid of their high walls in favor of star shaped fortifications. Furthermore, since the star fort is designed to better withstand cannon fire, it should be reflected in some fashion in the mod. I don't see this as nonsense.

 

[sedna17]

The high-walls are just placeholder art. I couldn't find any good art, and I knew that the high-walls art "played nice" with other art. The system that control how walls are displayed is complicated.

Thanks for the bug reports youtien.

 

[Ambreville]

The high-walls are just placeholder art. I couldn't find any good art, and I knew that the high-walls art "played nice" with other art. The system that control how walls are displayed is complicated.

Ahh... yes. I suspected this was the case. Thanks for the update. Best of luck finding
the right resource. I wonder if ekmek or geomodder would be willing to pitch in. I believe geomodder ought to have the skill for this kind of work.

 

[kochman]

I quite certainly know what seventeenth-century star-shaped fortifications look like. They most certainly do not look like HIGH curtain walls, as depicted in the mod right now. Medieval curtain walls were indeed extremely vulnerable to cannon fire. Star-shaped fortifications were specifically designed in the RW to better withstand cannon fire, essentially since the better part of the structure remains protected behind an earthen glacis to deflect cannon shot. In the mod, the new fortification does not "replace" the old curtain walls (which it should), but it comes in addition to it! That's just plain wrong. Most cities in the RW got rid of their high walls in favor of star shaped fortifications. Furthermore, since the star fort is designed to better withstand cannon fire, it should be reflected in some fashion in the mod. I don't see this as nonsense.

Not to beat a dead horse, but you said it should only get the bonus against gunpowder above... that is not "nonsense", as you wrote, but it makes no sense... The angular walls were better against everything, not only cannons. They withstood everything up to cannons, because everything less than cannons was weaker by that point anyhow... this is just semantics though, not really a debate.
As for the art, I haven't seen it yet, so I cannot comment on that, but it's not exactly easy to create that stuff.
Old city walls should generally disappear when star forts are made... however, star forts generally didn't encompass the entire city, but the most important areas of the city (government quarter)... so old city walls were often still in place, but just as often left to fall into disrepair, no longer fixed, etc. They were basically obsolete, BUT, still provided some level of protection.

 

[Ambreville]

Not to beat a dead horse, but you said it should only get the bonus against gunpowder above... that is not "nonsense", as you wrote, but it makes no sense... The angular walls were better against everything, not only cannons. They withstood everything up to cannons, because everything less than cannons was weaker by that point anyhow... this is just semantics though, not really a debate.
As for the art, I haven't seen it yet, so I cannot comment on that, but it's not exactly easy to create that stuff.
Old city walls should generally disappear when star forts are made... however, star forts generally didn't encompass the entire city, but the most important areas of the city (government quarter)... so old city walls were often still in place, but just as often left to fall into disrepair, no longer fixed, etc. They were basically obsolete, BUT, still provided some level of protection.

You ARE beating a dead horse.

 

[kochman]

Hence the caveat...

 

[AOS9001]

They were basically obsolete, BUT, still provided some level of protection.

I'd figure the rubble from the walls would work better than the walls themselves against cannons, like at Constantinople, 1453.

 

[kochman]

In the case of Monte Cassino, in 1943-44, the rumble was superior, that's for sure!

 

[Ambreville]

I noticed that the Protestantism feature does not appear to be working any longer. Twice now I've gotten Printing Press, but after accepting the new religion, I only get the "Holy City/Religious Center" and another city's conversion. It used to be that my civ would change religion as well, and all its cities would get Protestantism straight away. Was that changed from the previous version?

I'm currently running the Hungarians.

 

[ezzlar]

Some cities (sometimes all) and some building convert IIRC!

 

[Taijian]

Trying out beta3 as Venice, I conquered Constantinople around 1150. I then waited until 1203 for the game to acknowledge my conquest, but it didn't

Since I do have an autosave, could someone tell me what to change in the py so that I can complete the game?

Thank you very much!

 

[Ambreville]

Trying out beta3 as Venice, I conquered Constantinople around 1150. I then waited until 1203 for the game to acknowledge my conquest, but it didn't

Since I do have an autosave, could someone tell me what to change in the py so that I can complete the game?

Thank you very much!

Are you certain there isn't a surviving Venetian city tucked away somewhere in the Orient?

 

[Zipzapzup]

For now the easiest is instead of:
if (iGameTurn <= i1200AD and self.getGoal( iVenecia, 0) == -1 ):

if (iGameTurn == i1200AD and self.getGoal( iVenecia, 0) == -1 ):

This is my fault, because i didn't test it.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

Just played the new Cordoban UHVs, and I have to say it was a very nice game. More barbs in Iberia in the beginning and the tight timeline make the game much more challenging and interesting. I like UHVs where u have to focus everything on a goal instead of just playing around (In the case of Cordoba, beeline to Drama and build lots of culture). Hope to see more of these UHVs.

First Venecia UHV was checked "NO" already in the beginning for me, seems to be a bug....

 

[yogiebere]

I tried the Kievan Russ and had a blast! Granted, getting rid of the Mongols was tough, and I ended up sending squads of knights after them. Very doable... if painfully bloody.

So far, the two I had the most fun with were the Kievans and the Genoans. Hated running the Bulgarians (frustrating) and the Austrians (blah...)

I totally agree, Genoa is a ton of fun, and so is Kiev except for Mongols

 

[The Hyper Duck]

I noticed that the Protestantism feature does not appear to be working any longer. Twice now I've gotten Printing Press, but after accepting the new religion, I only get the "Holy City/Religious Center" and another city's conversion. It used to be that my civ would change religion as well, and all its cities would get Protestantism straight away. Was that changed from the previous version?

I'm currently running the Hungarians.

I have noticed this as well. In two separate games I researched Printing Press and founded Protestantism (as the Genoese and then the Norse), and both times I decided to convert for the heck of it (I had to convert manually by going to the religion advisor screen and starting a revolution). The religion is founded in a random city and usually spreads to one other city on the same turn, but all the catholic buildings remain catholic and the rest of my cities remain completely Catholic.

As it stands now, there's no reason at all to go for Printing Press or convert to Protestantism. All it does is take your stability out at the knees and ruin your relations with most of Western Europe. You can train missionaries and spread it to your other cities (and train prosecutors to get rid of the Catholics if that's your thing), but this just leads to more instability. I just started playing this mod a few days ago and I love it, but I can't imagine that the whole reformation mechanic is supposed to work this way.

 

[sedna17]

I have noticed this as well. In two separate games I researched Printing Press and founded Protestantism (as the Genoese and then the Norse), and both times I decided to convert for the heck of it (I had to convert manually by going to the religion advisor screen and starting a revolution). The religion is founded in a random city and usually spreads to one other city on the same turn, but all the catholic buildings remain catholic and the rest of my cities remain completely Catholic.

As it stands now, there's no reason at all to go for Printing Press or convert to Protestantism. All it does is take your stability out at the knees and ruin your relations with most of Western Europe. You can train missionaries and spread it to your other cities (and train prosecutors to get rid of the Catholics if that's your thing), but this just leads to more instability. I just started playing this mod a few days ago and I love it, but I can't imagine that the whole reformation mechanic is supposed to work this way.

Yes, this behavior is definitely a bug. I'm pretty sure that switching to protestantism was working well at some point in the past, so some introduced change must have broken it. We'll fix it.

 

[merijn_v1]

@ Sedna

Who does Abu Yusuf Yakub represent? (I need this because I translate the leadernames into the 5 standard languages)

The scholar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Yusuf_Ya'qub

or

The second Almohad Amir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Yaqub_Yusuf

(I think the last)