RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[3Miro]

Also I've been having another problem (yes I'm walking down to the Crimea ), but my weirder problem is that I captured Jorvik (Nottingham, I think it was), but at -2 or -3 stability it immediately declared independence. And when I recaptured it, and my stability dropped once more, AGAIN it declared independence! Can you check up on that, please. Thanks

Post a safegame form right before the first and perhaps the second capture.

 

[The Turk]

Post a safegame form right before the first and perhaps the second capture.

I quit the games -_____-"

 

[kochman]

@The Turk

Spoiler :

Oh, so basically you can just tell me anything off-topic you want, in spoilers and you can get away with it?

Basically, you are correct...
Moderator Action: No, he isn't.

 

[3Miro]

I quite the games -_____-"

Without a savegame that I can use to follow step-by-step everything that is happening in the code I cannot do anything.

EVERYONE: if you want to help, keep your savegames.

 

[Allan79]

Also I've been having another problem (yes I'm walking down to the Crimea ), but my weirder problem is that I captured Jorvik (Nottingham, I think it was), but at -2 or -3 stability it immediately declared independence. And when I recaptured it, and my stability dropped once more, AGAIN it declared independence! Can you check up on that, please. Thanks

When playing the Norse your first and most important job is keep your stability above 0. Otherwise your cities start to declare independence. Until your have a descent sized empire. I have tried even tonsberg declare independence.

I have managed to have stable empire controlling denmark, norway, sweden, england, scotland and ireland. So it is possible.

 

[The Turk]

When playing the Norse your first and most important job is keep your stability above 0. Otherwise your cities start to declare independence. Until your have a descent sized empire. I have tried even tonsberg declare independence.

I have managed to have stable empire controlling denmark, norway, sweden, england, scotland and ireland. So it is possible.

YA! Thats what happened to me as well! You just dip a bit under and instantly some of your cities declare independence! Was that expected? Because I've played other games where you really need to get into the -10 to -20's for your cities to start declaring independence.

@3Miro
I don't think you'll even need to have a savegame, just try it out yourself, as something fishy is going on

 

[3Miro]

@3Miro
I don't think you'll even need to have a savegame, just try it out yourself, as something fishy is going on

For the past three months, I have played no more than 3 full games This is the price I have to pay for doing the mod, when you spend so much time coding, you code and test, but never play.

Next time I get a chance to play, I will try out the Norse.

 

[Veshta]

The sacrifices we make for our one true love, eh Miro?

Norse are doable, but it is a very single minded endeavour with first build always being manors and getting to courthouses as fast as possible.
It is a very aggressive expansion that is needed, and the new system penalises that sort of land grab quite severely.
There is no easy fix that I can think of, at least not without making the AI godlike, only one that comes to mind is pushing UHV outwards by a number of years to allow for a smoother expansion.
@Allan: The initial cities are easy peasy, now add Iceland, Sicily and Crimea before UHV expires .. that is where the problem lies.

PS: Three extra galleys are truly divine intervention, but excessive. Two or even just one would suffice I think. There is a lot of ferrying going on so throwing a boat into the unknown once in a while is not a huge hit .. if only that delicious Trading Post was a little faster to build

By the way, how long is the revolt grace period after a civ spawns? I have been dabbling with Portuguese and have no problems going -10 or lower for an extended period in the opening phase .. seen the same behaviour playing the English.

 

[The Turk]

I think the bigger problem lays with grabbing the Crimea, getting Ireland isn't' that bad. In fact I'm usually able to grab the British Isles pretty fast, its just Sicily and attacking France can take a while.

Also I would review you're spreading of Islam. Have Islam spread in Anatolia (to Byzantine cities) when the Seljuks invade. The Seljuk invasion needs to be bigger, they should hollow out the interior of Anatolia.

Also shouldn't North African cities have Orthodox christianity? Or were they Catholic (ie. In Communion with the Pope?)

Also the Bulgarians should be Orthodox Christian, perhaps having a scripted spread of Orthodox Christianity to their cities would be a good idea.

Also any ideas for having a unique background and title for this mod? It would really add to the flavour of the mod

 

[3Miro]

I think the bigger problem lays with grabbing the Crimea, getting Ireland isn't' that bad. In fact I'm usually able to grab the British Isles pretty fast, its just Sicily and attacking France can take a while.

Also I would review you're spreading of Islam. Have Islam spread in Anatolia (to Byzantine cities) when the Seljuks invade. The Seljuk invasion needs to be bigger, they should hollow out the interior of Anatolia.

Also shouldn't North African cities have Orthodox christianity? Or were they Catholic (ie. In Communion with the Pope?)

Also the Bulgarians should be Orthodox Christian, perhaps having a scripted spread of Orthodox Christianity to their cities would be a good idea.

Also any ideas for having a unique background and title for this mod? It would really add to the flavour of the mod

- Stability for the Norse has been improved since Beta 8.
- The Seljuk invasion currently consists of 5 units every turn. The problem is that the Byz are strong enough to withstand and even if they lose a city, they have plenty of time to Prosecute.
- North Africa was conquered by the Arabs while there was still not a good distinction between Orthodox and Catholic.
- What do you mean by Unique Background, we do have unique loading screen and we do have a good name.

 

[FakeShady]

Also I would review you're spreading of Islam. Have Islam spread in Anatolia (to Byzantine cities) when the Seljuks invade. The Seljuk invasion needs to be bigger, they should hollow out the interior of Anatolia.

Agreed. We have know the Battle of Manzikert was such an easy battle for the Seljuks, the Byzantines had no chance at all. In fact, i suggest a feature that makes Byzantium lose all their cities in Anatolia instantly once the Seljuks appear.
Here's the historical proof, quoted from wikipedia:
"During this time, the Sultan allowed Romanos to eat at his table whilst concessions were agreed upon; Antioch, Edessa, Hierapolis and Manzikert were to be surrendered.[8] This would have left the vital core of Anatolia untouched"

Anatolia, all the way to Antioch, should be instantly surrendered to the Seljuks. This will make a more historical game

 

[The Turk]

- Stability for the Norse has been improved since Beta 8.
- The Seljuk invasion currently consists of 5 units every turn. The problem is that the Byz are strong enough to withstand and even if they lose a city, they have plenty of time to Prosecute.
- North Africa was conquered by the Arabs while there was still not a good distinction between Orthodox and Catholic.
- What do you mean by Unique Background, we do have unique loading screen and we do have a good name.

- The Seljuk invasion probably needs to be strengthened. Its fine for the Byzantine AI to recapture those cities, but not that fast nor that easily. Perhaps 7 Seljuks per turn? And perhaps more diversified units as well for them?
- Ah... Good point, I would recommend though having them all Orthodox Christian, due to the fact that current Christian communities in these places are more related to Eastern Orthodox Christianity rather than to Catholicism. So thats my opinion, if someone has "historical" references to this, please share them, but overall it makes more sense if they are Orthodox Christian (up to Spain)
- Unique Background as in, the title page. For example SoI and RFC Asia (is that mod still in progress ), all have their own unique title backgrounds and font title (heading), it would be cool if you could have a European thematic one.

 

[FakeShady]

Eastern North Africa is mostly Orthodox,(Coptic) while Western North Africa has Catholic communities, though they are mostly foreign and only there after quite some time. Overall, they should all end up Muslim in the end.

 

[J. pride]

Eastern North Africa is mostly Orthodox,(Coptic) while Western North Africa has Catholic communities, though they are mostly foreign and only there after quite some time. Overall, they should all end up Muslim in the end.

Yeah that would be correct! Im sure that there are/were some christian communities in North Africa but they are too small to represent (the only exception is the orthodox presence in Alexandria). Its just like the Byzantine, they probably had a small muslim community before the seljuks but it is too small to represent

 

[civ_king]

Western North Africa was Catholic and Eastern North Africa was Orthodox

 

[Olaf_The_Great]

*In nearly all my games Sicily is never colonized , not even by the Byzantines ,Venetians, and Genoans. Perhaps a Kingdom of Sicily? Would also solve the empty North Africa
*Scotland feels underrepresented, shouldn't it be it's own country/ I don't know if there's enough space for it but it should be parallel to England
*The Ottomans almost always convert to Orthodoxy when they spawn. It might be necessary to give them the same power as the Arabs.
*I think paganism(put norse and Lithuanian together) should be it's own religion with temples and wonders rather than a "no state religion' affair. It would be rather neat to remain pagan in the face of adversity.
*Something seems to be wrong with the last UHV for Cordoba. I had every single inch of Spain coverted to Islam and I failed the last part.
*The Byzantine UHV bugged(one time apparently) where I was rewarded for having the highest culture in 1000 in the year 700 or so, and I failed the last two UHV's by 848.
*It might not be geographically accurate, but Iceland should be moved southeast and given more land. The southeast portion of Iceland is virtually uninhabitable even today, it was the west of Iceland that was fertile and full of fish. It would be mostly treeless plains with fish resources and atleast 2 whale. Iceland does not naturally have trees.
*I know this will never happen, but Byzantines should be Romans. They also seem to be unable to settle stable in areas historically owned by them at the start (Northwest Africa, Sicily, Southern Italy, Rhodes, Crete, Cyprus, Crimera). Thankfully the Imperialism civic is awesome.
*Occupation seems to have the opposite effect, my stability went down by 3 every time I attacked a settlement, whereas it stayed the same with Imperialism.
*Viking UHV is apparently bugged, even at 1 stability Dublin goes independent every other turn, even if I worldbuilder it to me.
*Byzantines should start with Divine Monarchy and over civics enabled at start(think Egypt in the original) this is more useful than the current UHV, imo.
*While playing as Cordoba, every time Spain, Portugal, France or whatever wanted to be independent I could bribe them to not steal my cities. If I do the same with Byzanitum, it bugs out and the cities get stolen anyway.

 

[FakeShady]

*Byzantines should start with Divine Monarchy and over civics enabled at start(think Egypt in the original) this is more useful than the current UHV, imo.
*While playing as Cordoba, every time Spain, Portugal, France or whatever wanted to be independent I could bribe them to not steal my cities. If I do the same with Byzanitum, it bugs out and the cities get stolen anyway.

Not gonna happen in a million years

 

[AbsintheRed]

Don't strengthen the seljuk invasion, 5 units/turn are more than enough
First we should run a few test games after I uploaded the map changes to Anatolia
Also, we can still move the seljuk's spawn position a few tiles west if they are going against the levant instead of east anatolia (which I experienced in some of my games)

But I agree with FakeShady too, we shouldn't go overboard with this. If the byzantine AI lose 2-3 cities to the seljuks I think it's enough

 

[3Miro]

*Something seems to be wrong with the last UHV for Cordoba. I had every single inch of Spain coverted to Islam and I failed the last part.
*The Byzantine UHV bugged(one time apparently) where I was rewarded for having the highest culture in 1000 in the year 700 or so, and I failed the last two UHV's by 848.

Do you have a savegame from right bore this happens.

 

[FakeShady]

But I agree with FakeShady too, we shouldn't go overboard with this. If the byzantine AI lose 2-3 cities to the seljuks I think it's enough

Excuse me? When did i say that? I said, Byzantium should lose ALL their cities in Anatolia. They shouldnt even have A CHANCE to keep any of them. In fact, to be more historically accurate, i even suggested that those cities be unconditionally surrendered to the Seljuks once the Seljuks appear.

To ensure historical accuracy, because its SO important, i would also like to suggest that everytime the Bulgarians lose a unit to Byzantium, a "blind unit" will appear in Bulgaria. These "blind units" cannot do battle or do anything, but they will consume 1 food. Essentially they will become a liability to the Bulgarians, but that was the idea after all, to represent the blinding of the Bulgarians done by the Byzantines. It might not sound like a great idea, but hey, its just more historical like that. Moderator Action: Stop the trolling.

As of now Seljuks are way too weak, and Byzantium is way too strong. Ottoman has far too little units upon spawn. At the current rate there is no way the Ottoman AI can capture Vienna by the time stated. I suggest the Ottoman UP to be changed to

"Power of Janissaries: +10 Jannisaries for every city captured"

This can replace the needless drafting ability, which is wayyy too useless