RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[micbic]

I will test Spain. If I carry out the territorial UHV, Spain is overpowered

 

[jessiecat]

People were complaining the condition was way too easy before (and I agreed after one test game). I mean, the Cordoban AI is never going to conquer Spain, but...

The first two conditions as Cordoba are pretty easy. It's the 3rd. that can be really tough because while your doing all that conquering before 1500 your research really doesn't keep up. I've done it again recently but was nearly out-teched by Venice and England. Which is what usually happens. I'd like to see a bit more incentive for them to settle N. Africa though. Actually I have seen the AI conquer all of Iberia once but they're usually too interested in grabbing most of France and the Low Countries instead, for some odd reason. Maybe there should be expansion penalties against that.

EDIT Just downloaded the latest version. What's up with rapidshare? Normally it takes 2-3 minutes. This time it was about 45 minutes.

 

[sedna17]

Rapidshare is being funny. For me, it uploads MUCH faster than FileFront, but downloads really slowly. Anyhow, that's why I put up both options.

 

[merijn_v1]

EDIT Just downloaded the latest version. What's up with rapidshare? Normally it takes 2-3 minutes. This time it was about 45 minutes.

I had it to. But I did it in about 25 minutes. But the download screen said it would take over 45 minutes.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I just started a game as Germany and... What the hell is up with those colors? Germany is YELLOW? I really hope this is a bug which will be fixed soon :S.

 

[merijn_v1]

If you had read what has changed you saw that most Civs have new colors. So Germany is turn into yellow. The colors are also changed that you can see more easy what is your terretory. So it really isn't a bug.
BTW, the Holy Roman Empire is yellow in the normal game, so IMO its logical that Germany is yellow.

 

[jessiecat]

I guess the colours are a bit strange at first but we'll get used to them. One problem I do have to report however concerns the new GP names. The new ones come up fine though all in capital letters but now they're preceeded by the line "TEXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON" etc. as you can see in the screenshot. This always happens with messages like the people of X city love their "TEXT_KEY_CIVIC" also. Another little bug for sedna 17 to fix I think.

 

[sedna17]

I do want feedback on color suggestions -- these are by no means final and some of them are random/poorly motivated. However, as merjin points out, yellow for the HRE is one of the most apt color assignments. The secondary color should be black, not red, I will change that.

I think I know what is wrong with the Great Person names.

 

[micbic]

How do you have that high research rate? I am at 1400 AD with the Spanish, have partially captured the Andalus (Cordoba-Valencia) and have a mere 20%-30% research rate (something like 40-50 bulbs per turn). To understand, I am currently researching Chivalry
Other observations, bugs and non-bugs
1) Burgundy first time builds Grenoble and Arles
2) Can anybody explain me how the respawn thing works? In my game when Burgundy respawned, it didn't took all city originally built by them, and took a city (Verdun) which was built by the French!!!
3) Surprisingly good is Germany
4) Surprisingly bad is Muscowy
5) I don't think that the Kumans/Avars/Mayars/Pechenegs were put to make the Bulgarian timespawn such short... (screenies 3-4)
6) Is the Krak des Chevaliers supposed to keep the defense bonus of a city the same, regardless of the amount of the siege? (screenie 2)
7) Am I the only one to have the tech advisor bug? Same for resource infos
8) Can the indies build wonders (screenie 1)?

EDIT: @sedna: It would be fine to me if we could adapt Europa Universalis colors to civs. So, I propose
Byzantines: The vanilla BTS grey suits me fine
Franks: no change
Burgundians: The Chinese would suit better
Bulgarians: No idea
Arabs: The first green was better
Venice: Persian from BTS
Norse: OK
Cordobans: Mali from BTS
Spanish: Keep it as it is
Hungarians: The first choice was better
Germans: Absolutely no idea
Polish: The indian from BTS
Genoans: The yellow currently in Germany
Portugal: The old one suit to me
England: Better as right now
Ottomans: Cordoban now light green
Kievan: Any idea
Muscowans: same as above
Dutch: A purple variant, the orange suits me too
Swedes: a blue

 

[Wessel V1]

How do you have that high research rate? I am at 1400 AD with the Spanish, have partially captured the Andalus (Cordoba-Valencia) and have a mere 20%-30% research rate (something like 40-50 bulbs per turn). To understand, I am currently researching Chivalry
Other observations, bugs and non-bugs
1) Burgundy first time builds Grenoble and Arles
2) Can anybody explain me how the respawn thing works? In my game when Burgundy respawned, it didn't took all city originally built by them, and took a city (Verdun) which was built by the French!!!
3) Surprisingly good is Germany
4) Surprisingly bad is Muscowy
5) I don't think that the Kumans/Avars/Mayars/Pechenegs were put to make the Bulgarian timespawn such short... (screenies 3-4)
6) Is the Krak des Chevaliers supposed to keep the defense bonus of a city the same, regardless of the amount of the siege? (screenie 2)
7) Am I the only one to have the tech advisor bug? Same for resource infos
8) Can the indies build wonders (screenie 1)?

1) Seen that before, but I agree that it's always nice to see new cities appear.
2) Not clear to me either, but I think it should be reworked a little since in my game Burgundy collapsed one turn after they respawned without any negative events.
6) I've seen it somewhere (RFRE I think), where certain cities had pre-built castles with 700% defense bonus. I think it's a placeholder.
8) They can, at a slower pace.

Some notes on Cordoba (earlier version)

- Poland is doing worse than before. The indies seem to be stronger, and they have a hard job in defending theirselves.
- Burgundy is sometimes stable and surviving, but I think their upkeep prevents them to being able to survive until the Renaissance.
- I'm not going to complain about Cordoba, since it's fixed. I was doing so well... Really, Cordoba >> America.
- Kiev doesn't have any chance against the Mongols.
- Florence should have a lower chance to flip to Venice, just like Hamburg to the Dutch in RFC. Currently, it flips to Venice around 1200, maybe 1300. Venice gets very powerful afterwards.
- Corporations are a little useless IMO. Of course having them is better than not having them since the headquarters give so much money, but otherwise they only make a real difference to new cities. The only 2 exceptions are the Bank of St. George (espionage) and the Hanseatic League (food). However, the Bank of St. George competes with 3 corporations, so I'd rather build the others, to have as many as possible. The Hanseatic League doesn't compete with any corporation (might be fixed in the new version, haven't checked it), and combined with the large food bonus, it's overpowered.
Also, the corporations come quite early. All corporations have been built by 1242 AD, Byzantium even constructed Knights Hospitaller in 927 AD.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I'd really like Germans to have the white-ish gray color from BTS, I think that suits them the most, yellow is just too... Out there, know what I mean?

 

[Verily]

Papacy: White
Byzantines: Purple or dark red, as in Civ3 Conquests
Franks: As currently
Burgundy: How about burgundy? (Deep purplish-red)
Bulgaria: Orange-brown
Arabia: Bright green
Venice: Powder blue
Norse: As currently
Cordoba: Pale green
Spain: Yellow or gold
Hungary: Red
Germany: Grey
Poland: Not sure…
Genoa: White if not used for the Papacy, or yellow or gold
Portugal: As in vanilla BtS
England: Blue, red or white
Ottomans: Brown
Kiev: Dark blue, maybe? Purple if not used for Byzantium?
Moscow: No idea
Dutch: Orange
Sweden: Medium blue

 

[pan-slavist]

My feedback on playing as Kiev and Poland - Yurij Dolgorukij is still not changed for Yaroslav the Wise, i thought it was an agreement among everbody. Byzantines and Franks are wishing to trade everything for just one tech, the Polish spearman picture is flashing - sometimes its right and sometimes it looks like a hoplite (usually when stationary). Another thing is that as Kiev i keep founding cities that Ive never heard of, and im a student of russian history. thats for now

 

[jessiecat]

I do want feedback on color suggestions -- these are by no means final and some of them are random/poorly motivated. However, as merjin points out, yellow for the HRE is one of the most apt color assignments. The secondary color should be black, not red, I will change that.

I think I know what is wrong with the Great Person names.

I'm fine with the colours but with one or 2 exceptions. Poland and Moscow seem to have 2 shades of red. I think it would be better to swap Poland and the Papal State. I'm not keen on the Norse and Sweden being so alike either but most of the colour changes make sense esp. in W. Europe and look about right historically. As for the rest, I don't really care what they were like in RFC or BTS. Whatever they are now, we'll just get used to them. As we've always done before.

 

[micbic]

My feedback on playing as Kiev and Poland - Yurij Dolgorukij is still not changed for Yaroslav the Wise, i thought it was an agreement among everbody. Byzantines and Franks are wishing to trade everything for just one tech, the Polish spearman picture is flashing - sometimes its right and sometimes it looks like a hoplite (usually when stationary). Another thing is that as Kiev i keep founding cities that Ive never heard of, and im a student of russian history. thats for now

Please give names and locations if possible

 

[pan-slavist]

Papacy: White or Grey
Byzantines: Purple as China in Bts
Franks: As currently
Burgundy: Purple Like India in Warlords
Bulgaria: Brown as mongolia
Arabia: Bright green
Venice: Powder blue - dont know what it is but can be
Norse: As currently
Cordoba: Light blue as persia- cordobans were obsessed with water
Spain: Pink or some kind of unused red
Hungary: Dark green or Brown as Mali
Holy Roman: Yellow
Poland: Grey or White if papal is grey
Genoa: Blue as America
Portugal: Green as in Bts
England: Red
Ottomans: Orange-brown
Kiev: Dark Blue or light orange as carthage in warlords
Moscow: Dark red
Dutch: Dark orange as dutch
Sweden: Golden

Maybe i made some mistakes... if you insist on grey HRE, then this list is useless and i should make a new one...

 

[pan-slavist]

The unknown Kievan cities - Mazir or st like that, Piazan or st like that, also Kharkiv is too to the north.

 

[micbic]

I think Mazir stands for Mozyr in Belarus. I found no city named Piazan on the city name map (and I am sure you don't mean Ryazan).

 

[sedna17]

People posting color lists -- if you have historical reasons for have a certain color for a certain civ, list it. This sort of thing is good, because I can see your reasoning and sort of rate how important it is to have this color:

Cordoba: Light blue as persia- cordobans were obsessed with water

2) Can anybody explain me how the respawn thing works? In my game when Burgundy respawned, it didn't took all city originally built by them, and took a city (Verdun) which was built by the French!!!

Re-spawns occur (currently) in the same area as the initial spawn. There may be some modifier on culture, not sure. So if the French build a city inside Burgundy's spawn zone it will tend to flip on respawn.

- Corporations are a little useless IMO. Of course having them is better than not having them since the headquarters give so much money, but otherwise they only make a real difference to new cities. The only 2 exceptions are the Bank of St. George (espionage) and the Hanseatic League (food). However, the Bank of St. George competes with 3 corporations, so I'd rather build the others, to have as many as possible. The Hanseatic League doesn't compete with any corporation (might be fixed in the new version, haven't checked it), and combined with the large food bonus, it's overpowered.
Also, the corporations come quite early. All corporations have been built by 1242 AD, Byzantium even constructed Knights Hospitaller in 927 AD.

I didn't think that the military orders should be game-changers -- just a little flavor and some monetary payback. The later banks I would like to be more powerful, so I'm open to boosting their benefit. The AI is terrible with corporations though, so that's something to keep in mind.

I think you're right that Hanseatic league should probably compete with something. You're right that things are getting built a bit too early. I'll shift them back a tech level or so.

 

[jessiecat]

I agree the corporations are coming too early. But I have noticed the AI really loves to build them esp. the military orders.

People talk about respawned civs. I've never seen one. Not in the latest test versions.

BTW I've posted an updated corrected GP list in the wonders thread. You might want to use that to fix the text errors.