RFC Europe UHV

[merijn_v1]

I'm starting this thread so you can post some ideas for the last UHVs of some Civs.

These Civs need a last UHV:
The Burgundians: currently resources
The Dutch: currently colonial
The English: currently colonial
The Franks: currently colonial
The Kievans: currently resources
The Moscowans: currently 2 vassals
The Portuguese: currently colonial
The Spanish: currently colonial
The Venetians: currently resources

 

[merijn_v1]

For the Dutch, English, Franks, Portuguese and the Spanish we could do something with Colonies.
The Dutch can be the richest Civ in X-AD or have X gold in X-AD.
The Venetians the same as teh Dutch. Or have 10 OBs in X-AD.
The Portuguese could colonize that little isles (like Ponta Delgada).

All these are just my ideas.

 

[BurnEmDown]

How about for Portuguese colonize Ponta Delgada and 2 other islands, and finish 1 colony project by X-AD.

 

[3Miro]

Dutch, English, Spanish, Portuguese and Franks were initially decided to have colonial projects as UHV. They could not coded until the colonies were in.

Kiev, Venice and Burgundy had resource requirements, those could not be coded until the resources were in.

The only one that has not been agreed upon is the Moscowan.

We could change those of course, but I think they make sense. Check the wiki for details.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Also Portuguese UP could be +25% on colonial project hammers.

 

[jessiecat]

Dutch, English, Spanish, Portuguese and Franks were initially decided to have colonial projects as UHV. They could not coded until the colonies were in.

Kiev, Venice and Burgundy had resource requirements, those could not be coded until the resources were in.

The only one that has not been agreed upon is the Moscowan.

We could change those of course, but I think they make sense. Check the wiki for details.

What was suggested for Moscow was 3) Control 3 vassals by 1600AD. This and other suggestions incl. tweaks to existing conditions are all included in bold in the civ UHV lists in the wiki.

 

[rob-art1985]

Yesterday I finished the Venetian UHV in 1350. And with some more strengh of purpose, it could have been 1280-1300.
In Standard-RFC there are UHVs, which are not quite historical. So Germany never conquered England, the Ethiopians could not hold the Europeans out of South and East Africa and the Maya couldnt survive till 1745!
Maybe the UHVs in RFC-Europe should be handicapped. For example, the Venetians UHV could be, to control the Turkish Riviera and Sicilly with 2 cities each. (Conqering Rhode can only be a joke not?)
Same suggestions for some more Civs. To be discussed...

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yes I think in RFC each civ has 1 UHV which didn't really happen, but if it would then the civ would have been much stronger in RL, like Rome not losing any cities to barbarians until 1000 AD or the Greeks circumnavigating the world (maybe it wouldn't have help them very much but it would have contributed to science by a very large amount), Germany winning WW2 and so on.

 

[Verily]

Yes I think in RFC each civ has 1 UHV which didn't really happen, but if it would then the civ would have been much stronger in RL, like Rome not losing any cities to barbarians until 1000 AD or the Greeks circumnavigating the world (maybe it wouldn't have help them very much but it would have contributed to science by a very large amount), Germany winning WW2 and so on.

Yes; this is what I've been pushing for in some redesigned UHVs such as the English and Burgundian ones. A lot of the UHVs still need major work. Some civilizations such as the Venetians and Genovese still have a very easy time of it, at least in the hands of the human players.

 

[3Miro]

Yes; this is what I've been pushing for in some redesigned UHVs such as the English and Burgundian ones. A lot of the UHVs still need major work. Some civilizations such as the Venetians and Genovese still have a very easy time of it, at least in the hands of the human players.

We try to give all civs a a-historical UHV. Also, we are still working on the balance. Do you have any specific suggestions.

 

[rob-art1985]

I think the Venetians and Genoans should expand more into the Mediterranean!

The second Venetian UHV - to conquer Rhodes - is much too easy, maybe it could be to conquer Constantinople, like Eric Dandolo did. In SP it is manageable, I think.

The first Genoan UHV - to controll Milano, Marseilles, Sardinia, Crete and Cyprus in 1540 could be added by Sicilly, Corsica and one City in Spain (maybe Barcelona or Valencia). I tried this in my last Game, it was no problem. But I cheated a bit. When Genoa spawned, I opened the WB and moved a Settler one tile to the East. It's a much better staring-position. Maybe you should think about it.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

You see, the beauty of the UHV system is not to spell everything out for the player to achieve. If you've ever seen the show Blue's Clues, it's fun for the children (and I consider all RFC players children, myself included) to guess the 3 clues so that the "aha!" moment actually comes to them. It doesn't get boring after the first run (in fact, the show ran 5 days a week with the same episode).

So for example, Genoa's UHV says to control its areas but specifically without Sicily mentioned. Well, normally a player would go settle in Sardinia and get it over with. Wrong! Sicily is the best closest land mass for Genoa and has plenty of resources, and grows much quicker than Sardinia. What would be the fun in telling the player to go settle Sicily specifically, rather than letting them figure it out for themselves the second time around? (hint for the Norse)

And the point about settling Genoa 1E, yes, that is the most logical move, and it's up to the player to do it. (I actually think that the reason Genoa spawns on top of the iron is that sometimes the AI doesn't improve tiles that are too close to the border, and making the AI build on top of the iron will guarantee them iron.)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Yes; this is what I've been pushing for in some redesigned UHVs such as the English and Burgundian ones. A lot of the UHVs still need major work. Some civilizations such as the Venetians and Genovese still have a very easy time of it, at least in the hands of the human players.

Whatever you do, please make it possible for the emperor UHV to be achievable. Making the Genovese harder is fine but make sure it's possible.

 

[rob-art1985]

You see, the beauty of the UHV system is not to spell everything out for the player to achieve. If you've ever seen the show Blue's Clues, it's fun for the children (and I consider all RFC players children, myself included) to guess the 3 clues so that the "aha!" moment actually comes to them. It doesn't get boring after the first run (in fact, the show ran 5 days a week with the same episode).

So for example, Genoa's UHV says to control its areas but specifically without Sicily mentioned. Well, normally a player would go settle in Sardinia and get it over with. Wrong! Sicily is the best closest land mass for Genoa and has plenty of resources, and grows much quicker than Sardinia. What would be the fun in telling the player to go settle Sicily specifically, rather than letting them figure it out for themselves the second time around? (hint for the Norse)

And the point about settling Genoa 1E, yes, that is the most logical move, and it's up to the player to do it. (I actually think that the reason Genoa spawns on top of the iron is that sometimes the AI doesn't improve tiles that are too close to the border, and making the AI build on top of the iron will guarantee them iron.)

Okay, thats good argumentation about Sicilly, but what do you think about Valencia/Barcelona? At least, this game gives you a lot of time to complete the UHVs, so it can be more difficult, not?

The problem of moving the Genoan Settler 1E is, that it takes one turn. So you run in danger, not to get the 2 or 3 Builders in the beginning. Some Civs take one, others two turns till they get them. Maybe you should check this. If I would have two turns for it assured, I wouldn't open the WB

 

[merijn_v1]

Allmost everyone says the Venetian UHV is too easy. So I propose to change the 2nd UHV. Instead of conquer Rhodos, conquer Rhodos and Constantinople.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I like the conquer Constantinople part, but it might be too hard for emperor (since the AI builds tons of guisarmes roaming the country--it's not impossible, just need a surprise attack). How about conquering Rhodes, Athens, Cyprus and Naples (also part of the Venetian empire at one point or another)?

 

[3Miro]

I like the conquer Constantinople part, but it might be too hard for emperor (since the AI builds tons of guisarmes roaming the country--it's not impossible, just need a surprise attack). How about conquering Rhodes, Athens, Cyprus and Naples (also part of the Venetian empire at one point or another)?

Try it with a Crusade.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Can the Austrian UHV be changed so that if you or your vassals own cities in the Carpathian basin that will count? It was the Austrian-Hungarian empire, after all. That way, you can either capture Pest or try to win Hungary over diplomatically.

 

[operafantom]

I think that also, in fact Hungary was not on the same level as the Austrian parts of the Empire, the Habsburgs were crowned as Hungarian kings. The Hungarian nobles gave up their right to elect the king only in 1687. But it wasn't the Austrian-Hungarian Empire: it existed only from 1867.

 

[Myri]

All the build / found uhvs always need some luck at emporer, maybe change to "or conquer" so you can actually do something if the ai chooses your techs, because there is really no way you can be faster with techs for the first few hundered turns.

Maybe you can't be faster forever, seems the ai gets faster with techs when i do good. Playing a later nation the ai lacks a lot of techs they have at that time when i play an earlier nation. Maybe it's because i avoid to hurt the ai, i really hate when everything that could be a threat collapses.

bye Myri