RFC Europe Wonders

[3Miro]

Make them Copernicus' Observatory and Mozart's Opera House, i.e. associate them with buildings, because otherwise we will have to make them Projects.

 

[3Miro]

Right, but remember, we already have Leonardo's Inventions and Marco Polo's Embassy. Another People wonder we could put in is Columbus's voyage, provides a free colony?

Also Magellan's Voyage.

If we make Columbus' Voyage, then it will provide South (and maybe North) America Access. That is a cheap early project that would give no real resources, but make building American colonies easier.

 

[mitsho]

Still don't have one for Austria, so unless you want to make a super opera house a wonder, Mozart seems a good choice.

Yes, what speaks against having Mozart's Opera House or Mozart's Music. ;-) (he's not too late for the mod, right?).

Otherwise I would suggest something to do with crypts? As I remember from my Vienna visit, the Habsburgs were famous for their crypts. Something would be possible connected to the plague (black death) as there are rooms filled with bones down there ;-) Or a so called Pestsäule (plagues column) which were most common throughout Austria (it seems). They commemorate the victory over the plague as well as over the protestants ;-)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pestsäule#.C3.96sterreich (German)

Going on, why not the Stephansdom in Vienna? It's a huge dome, it has the graves of nearly half of the Habsburgs in it and it's a landmark cathedral. I got to think of it as in my city there's still the grave (emptied as we are protestant) of the Mother of the Habsburg clan (Anna, died 1281) here which is quite iconic.
Plus, wikipedia says, the Stephansdom has been used as a "fire station" since 15something. But of course you'd need to find a model first...

Oh, and if not, there is a range of catholic monasteries to chose from ;-).

m

 

[Michael Vick]

Also Magellan's Voyage.

If we make Columbus' Voyage, then it will provide South (and maybe North) America Access. That is a cheap early project that would give no real resources, but make building American colonies easier.

Christopher Columbus founded Isabella on Hispaniola, the first European colony in America on his first voyage. He later came back and founded what is now Santo Domingo. So in a sense, the voyage is creating a colony. Whoever builds it could choose between several of the earliest colonies; Hispaniola, Cuba, Jamaica, etc. And then maybe that would provide NA access, I'm not sure why it would be SA access.

 

[3Miro]

Christopher Columbus founded Isabella on Hispaniola, the first European colony in America on his first voyage. He later came back and founded what is now Santo Domingo. So in a sense, the voyage is creating a colony. Whoever builds it could choose between several of the earliest colonies; Hispaniola, Cuba, Jamaica, etc. And then maybe that would provide NA access, I'm not sure why it would be SA access.

Caribbean sea and central America is considered part of SA in the mod.

Colonies give resources and in Columbus times those did not provide much. That is why I wanted to give a bonus on consequent colonies. That is Columbus makes some settlements and then they grow into the corresponding colonies.

 

[Michael Vick]

Oh ok, I didn't know that. If it were me I would made Caribbean Access, with Mexico corresponding to NA.
But this is good, the sooner the wonders get made the better.

 

[eris23]

those artists (mozart, bach, wagner et al.) could be projects which can be hurried by a great artist and generate hitsongs and movies (classical music and opera...or something), gives boni with theater (especially opera house i d say)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, Wagner's a wee bit late. And while the Marriage of Figaro might be a hit, the concept of hitsongs is rather 20th century. I certainly wouldn't call Bach's Brandenburg Concerti a hit.

Which brings me to a point about great artists in RFCE. They can't found corporations, and by the time you spawn them (with drama being so late), you can't really change the political map. The only possible great artist that can be generated early is with the Heroic Epic, and usually you drown it out with other specialists. So I suggest maybe being able to hire artists earlier, maybe with weavers you can hire an artist. (e.g. Bayeux Tapestry, Arras tapestry)

Also, with Music being prediscovered by the Byzantines, maybe make the free great artist be available with Drama.

 

[eris23]

how about generate +1 happiness in your realm and another with theatre. or add culture to all your cities...or both.

 

[Michael Vick]

We need more Cathedral Type Wonders, I feel that there isn't enough religious construction going on in the game.

Other Suggestions

La Torre del Oro: (Seville)
Allowed by Arabic Knowledge
x hammers, double production speed with stone
+4 culture, +4 gold for every colony/ +50% defense for cities on river tiles.
(When it was first built, there was another tower on the other side of the Guadalquivir, when the Christians invaded, a chain was stretched from each tower to defend Seville from any navy sailing up the river. Although the city was taken, the moors successfully kept out the Spanish navy. In Spanish times, it was used to store gold coming from the New World.)
The benefit provided would depend on wether you'd want the wonder to be intended for Cordoba in the early game or the Spanish in the mid-game.

Amalienborg: (Copenhagen)
Allowed by a late tech of some sort
x hammers, double production speed with stone or marble
+8 culture, no stability penalty for losing cities
(Became the Danish Royal Residence after the Christiansborg palace was burnt down, symbolizing the stability after losing the original capitol building or something like that. It was built in 1750, maybe a tad too late, but the Norse are a bit short on wonders)

Mosteiro dos Jeronimos: (Lisbon)
Allowed by Astronomy
x hammers
+6 culture, +4 experience for all naval units or free strength 2 promotions
(Built in 1502 after the success of Vasco de Gama's expedition, it was dedicated to sailors and navigators of Portugal who often came there to pray before departing on their voyage)

Some church suggestions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Seville
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachen_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminister_Abbey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Ahmed_Mosque

And:
Columbus's Voyage
The Louvre (The earlier palace)

 

[jessiecat]

And:
Columbus's Voyage
The Louvre (The earlier palace)

I've already replied to the post you quote. I don't know why you think we need even more religious wonders. You seem to be the only one. Out of the 35 or so World Wonders, 12 of them are religious ones, almost all cathedrals, churches or mosques. Columbus's Voyage was not really unique or even the first to "discover" N. America and isn't of much use a wonder. Maybe a project to enable Atlantic Access but hardly a wonder. We've already got Magellans Voyage anyway.
The Louvre would be OK though, either as a Palace or later as an art museum. Although France already has more wonders than any other civ while most others like England only have one.

 

[Michael Vick]

Ok, you're right about the religious wonders, I just feel that there aren't enough cathedrals being built. Maybe these faith points could encourage more... idk. What do other people think of the other three?
Torre del Oro, Monastery of the Hieronymites, Amalienborg

 

[sedna17]

I had a look at the new colonies and made a little chart to sort them out in my brain (and for the manual eventually). I think I discovered two small mistakes: Louisiana is currently the only colony that doesn't require Atlantic Access and the Philippines has an extra "L" in the name.

Anyway, here's the structure of the colonies as I see it.

 

[jessiecat]

Interesting seeing it displayed like that. I agree about Louisiana. And it should require
N. Atlantic Access not S. America.

 

[jessiecat]

Interesting seeing it displayed like that. I agree about Louisiana. And it should require N. America Access
not S. America.

 

[3Miro]

Interesting seeing it displayed like that. I agree about Louisiana. And it should require N. America Access
not S. America.

Louisiana not requiring AA is a bug.

Philippines is a typo.

Louisiana + SA or NA, I though about it as Louisiana can be colonized from the Caribbean sea, which counts as SA. Anyway, I will change it to NA to better balance the two.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Just a thought: would it be fair to say that we should require only coastal cities to build colonial projects? The reason is that for gameplay, England, France and Spain all have excellent production in their noncoastal cities, and later civs like the Dutch and Portugal have rather sucky production, and only a few good cities to get these many projects done. If only coastal (i.e. less productive) cities are allowed to build colonial projects it might give them a chance to get some UHVs done (for the AI, of course), otherwise it's just all French and Spanish in all my games so far.
The Trading Companies should be allowed anywhere.

 

[3Miro]

Just a thought: would it be fair to say that we should require only coastal cities to build colonial projects? The reason is that for gameplay, England, France and Spain all have excellent production in their noncoastal cities, and later civs like the Dutch and Portugal have rather sucky production, and only a few good cities to get these many projects done. If only coastal (i.e. less productive) cities are allowed to build colonial projects it might give them a chance to get some UHVs done (for the AI, of course), otherwise it's just all French and Spanish in all my games so far.
The Trading Companies should be allowed anywhere.

Unlike regular wonders, Projects are not buildings. They do not physically exist in any individual city. Restrictions on where they can be build makes little sense. I believe London contributed to the Colonization at least as much as Plymouth, so building a project inland is not unrealistic, it isn't really being "build" in any single city.

The coastal city requirement has to do with the AA. You cannot have AA without a good port or two.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, can we at least make it doubly costly for inland cities to build them? (Isn't London on the coast in RFCE)

 

[3Miro]

Well, can we at least make it doubly costly for inland cities to build them? (Isn't London on the coast in RFCE)

No. It is easier to force then in individual cities (however, it is far from easy).