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RFC:I Civics

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by kairob, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,718
    So you want another Monarchy civic that gives 3 more bonuses from HR but just doesn't combine very well with the Socialist civic?
    I don't think it'll work.
    For now we shouldn't think of the bonuses each civic gives but think of which of them are more appropriate (for example before thinking of a bonus for Theocracy civic we should think if it's appropriate for this mod in terms of how it was used in history and by who).
    So while I agree there are 2 different kinds of Monarchy systems used in the first half of this mod (1500-1750), Which are Absolute Monarchy and Constitutional Monarchy (for example France and England), I think we should just get 1 civic from these and call it "Monarchy" (or HR as it's already called like that in CIV and RFC) which will be like a middle of these two (as in there is no Parlament (sp?) that the monarch has to consult with and which restricts his power, but the Monarch isn't an all-powerfull dictator who can do as he pleases. In this case England (gameplay-speaking) would switch to Representation rather early and would be classified as a democratic civ like any other, while France and Spain stick to HR until late, France would face many stability issues from this and by the end of the 18th century it would have to switch to a Republic (US) or face total collapse.
    Now to repeat my previous post, this leaves room for 2 more civic options, the 1st will obviously be a Dictatorship government (PS) and the 2nd could be something totally different from the other civics (Theocracy?).
     
  2. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    How about changing Representation to Oligarchy and Universal Suffrage to Democracy with the same effects.

    The logic of this is to broaden the states covered by the category as Oligarchy could cover almost all states that representation covered as well as some it didn't.

    Democracy would be a more accurate term for universal suffrage (as no country that I know of actually has universal suffrage).

    Would these names make more sense than the old names? If so we should probably change the name of Hereditary rule to Monarchy so it is presented in the same form as the other names.

    -------------------

    Following this I see several options for another governmental civic.

    Splitting Democracy into Presidential and Parliamentary Democracies.
    Adding Theocracy
    Adding Federal Democracy.
    Adding a Constitutional Monarchy
    Adding a 'Machine Rule' civic for very very late game
    Adding Oligarchy in addition to Representation

    Unfortunately I do not actually think that any of these option are that good.
     
  3. Panopticon

    Panopticon Utilitarian

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    Ireland
    I agree. 1 is indistinct, 2 isn't very common, 3 and 4 don't add all that much, 5 is a bit odd.

    It may sound odd, but Despotism is probably not a bad option for the extra government civic. It's what the game Victoria calls a "Presidential Dictatorship" - it's the difference between Napoleon and Stalin, say, and it was common during Central and South American history also. Oligarchy is another option.
     
  4. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    So the list would look like this;
    Monarchy
    Oligarchy
    Despotism
    Police State
    Democracy
     
  5. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2008
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    Finland
    Now regarding the effects of Democracy; if it's going to be Universal Suffrage with a different name, I'd like to point out some flaw that I think is in the game by default.

    Universal Suffrage's +1:hammers: from Town. In a Cottage Economy, there's no reason anyone would prefer Police State to US. This is why I think the :hammers: bonus needs to be moved elsewhere, be it a Technology or Civic, to give a little edge to Fascism. If you must, you could consider +1:commerce: modifier in Democracy, although it can be a little hard to balance in late game.
    I also think there's a need for Civic Percent Anger modifier to be included in Democracy, since it's the only one form of democracy available.

    And regarding Theocracies - on governmental level, aren't they all fundamental oligarchies?
     

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