One postnote - my biggest city was in the middle of the empire, if you get a city on the edge of your empire to size 14 instead it will have marginally more benefit as the distance limitation will apply to fewer cities.
Which will become relevant for this walk-through; Rhino's got a city on an island at the outskirts of his land with two fishies and room for another city that can share a fishy and has one all of its own. I think that it should be a simple matter to grow them to size 14 or larger.
I never realized how easy it was to get so much commerce; they're almost like shrines or something
I was on a small map and the two cities were exactly 11 squares east/west from each other when they trade base value maxed out at 1.32. Assuming this is a normal sized map then I reckon you'd need to be at least 13 squares away to be in with a chance of the 3 commerce (though I seem to remember reading that each one diagonal counts as 1.5 or something, not 1 like you might expect).
Failgold for the Win (Turns 445-476, Years 725-880 AD)
The turnset begins with Louis demanding 290 gold. He could cause problems if he could reach me, but he can't yet, and I'm not about to speed up his tech rate. I decline, but wrote it up so that if he researches astronomy and crushes me, you can all laugh.
I do buy a map from him for 90 G. His cities:
Spoiler:
And the Byzantine Empire to his South:
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And wonders:
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Louis has the Great Lighthouse, the Colossus, and the Sistine Chapel. Now we know how he's called so much commerce out of eight cities.
And the scary part? Louis is only #2 in techs. (I'm #3).
Spoiler:
755: I get another great scientist. Both Babricate and Oporto have academies, so I settle him in Oporto.
Spoiler:
Thought about saving him to bulb Education, but I have more GP coming, and there's no rush on Edu. (Oporto has other stuff to build before we can worry about Oxford).
825: Feudalism completes. On to civil service. It saves me about five turns (from a 29 down to 24, at 20% research). And the feudalism civic saves me a few GPT, too. Still not sure if straight to civil service would have been better, though.
860: 1,000 failed gold from the Moai Statues. Civil service in 5. There was no need for a beeline, and I'm glad to have Feudalism for later.
Spoiler:
875: I steal engineering. Castles will be nice (+2 CPT for 150 hammers, or 225 in cities without walls, plus an EP bump). But the real point is that I'm one tech closer to finishing off Joao.
Spoiler:
880: Civil service completes. Oporto is about 25 turns from the palace, and Elephanto has started the forbidden palace. For now, I'll have Babricate churn out settlers, since I can finally irrigate those last few cities.
Next tech, I think, is Guilds-->Banking for mercantilism. Banks will be nice too, to make a couple merchant cities. Maybe Babricate will go merchants, since it will need a market and a grocer to support its population.
Also on my mind is Nationalism, Education, Liberalism, and taking Constitution. Representation would give my economy and nice shot in the arm. But banking is a much shorter walk.
Also in 880, my next great person is born. A great spy. I would've loved this guy a few turnsets ago, but now I'm not sure what to do with him. Save for a Golden age? Settle in Oporto? Scotland Yard in Oporto? I'll figure it out next turnset. Any thoughts?
Spoiler:
So, my goal was to peacefully tech, and it worked pretty well. With the failgold, I was able to get civil service quickly enough. My workers have been killing time with roads for 10-15 turns, but nothing bad. We're right on track to get a lot of great people.
Next turnset, I'll steal Optics, meet the other AIs, and finish off Joao. (At least, wipe him off my island).
Next time if you've got workers with nothing to do, pillage everything non-essential when a city is still resisting and then just rebuild it yourself.
France must be running Free Religion with ShP? If you can spy them into one of their religions through a civic change it would create friction with Justinian. My guess would be the Byzantines are #1, unless you've seen a lot of great generals born in distant lands and another AI is huge. More likely that the next 3 will be one big Hindu lovefest, and then one of them will build the AP.
Got any longterm plans yet? Their continent would make a lovely vassal. Depending mostly on what type of victory you're leaning towards you might consider infiltrating the tech leader with your Gspy.
Golden Age right now is meh as he is just building brand new cities. Saving him for later is meh, because by them you'll have generated more great people and the GSpy could have been working the whole time. Without a lot of cottages, financial, MoM, National Epic, Celts are spiritual anyways... you can't get the full benefit. Though a GA would help to finish off the Palace a bit... it's Rhino, he's not just gonna stop spying. : P
Scotland Yard in Oporto will be effective if you think you'll be using the espionage slider, otherwise settle the first Gspy there and Scotland Yard with a 2nd for a long term benefit. Settle/Scotland Yard would net Optics faster, and still be useful against whoever is next.
Infiltration (presumably against the Byzantines) might net you techs like Guilds/Nationalism/Astronomy and can later be used for city revolts to take them out.
200 Years of Growth (Turns 476-520, Years 880-1100 AD)
It's time to let all my cities mature. This turnset will be about growing Ragnar's cities and building infrastructure. I start with civics:
Spoiler:
Bureaucracy, serfdom and organized religion. I know there are a lot of serfdom-haters out there, but it really is excellent right after you get civil service. I have probably 40 farms to make, and maybe 15 workers. The 50% productivity bump is really nice.
I also pick techs. I'd love to go for Constitution, but at breakeven research, it'll take roughly forever:
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But I can get banking in about 50 turns:
Spoiler:
So that's what I'll do.
I save the Great Spy for a Golden Age later, after my cities are up to size. (I got the Mausoleum from Joao.) I'll have plenty of EPs just from courthouses and spy specialists, at least to get research vision. Scotland Yard and spying on Louis might be stronger, but that requires so much micro, I'd rather self-tech after clearing Joao. (Thanks for the discussion, Keilah and plastique).
Quick shot of my cities in 880, for comparison later:
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And we're off. Most of this turnset is managing workers and placing new citizens. I'll just give you the highlights.
950: My first castles are coming online, and it's time to found a third island city:
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I swap to caste system for five turns to pop the borders, and turn the forest into a workshop.
965: I steal optics, and build a carvel to go meet the neighbors. Joao is on borrowed time now, but I'm focused on infrastructure, not conquest. So I leave him for now.
Spoiler:
970: Inner spice founded. We're getting closer to a full island.
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975: Oporto is my new capital. A nice bump to commerce already. More when I clear Joao's culture.
Spoiler:
Elephanto finished the forbidden palace a couple turns ago. (Tip: Always try to finish the forbidden palace before moving your capital to the edge of your empire, or your costs go through the roof).
985: Someone lands liberalism. I'm a bit afraid.
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1020: I meet Justinian. He has astronomy, and we trade some resources. This might be dumb, since I'm strengthening the strongest AI. But I have more cities, so the resources should help me more.
Spoiler:
And, surprisingly, everyone likes each other:
Spoiler:
Justinian has the most population, but I have more land than him. Long-term, that should work in my favor, especially if I can conquer Joao.
Spoiler:
My main concern now is that Joao could vassal to Justinian, which would be ugly.
A few turns later, I get stats vision on Justinian. He's killing me in research, and about even in production:
Spoiler:
Really, the only thing I have going for me is more land. Fortunately, land is everything in this game.
1045: Guilds completes. I make a few workshops, particularly for my island cities.
1055: I find the other continent. Gilgamesh, with Hammurabi as his vassal. They don't even have a code of laws or optics, though, so I'm not worried. Maybe a good target after Joao?
A few turns later, I meet Zara Yaqob, also on that continent. He's also backwards technologically.
A little more testing on city size and trade routes. It seems that the base value of the route does go up when the other city which is size 11, but not if the cities are too close together:
Spoiler:
Island Fish is right by Babricate.
A bit later, I notice a problem: I'm Justinian's worst enemy. I think I need to plan on him declaring on me. That's next turnset. (Preparing. No idea if he'll declare).
Spoiler:
So, how did my 200 years of growth go? Here's the shots:
Spoiler:
Start of turnset:
End of turnset:
Ragnar's cities have roughly doubled in size. Some of my older cities are only just now getting irrigation, so they'll grow nicely next turnset. And two of my island cities are size 10+ now, and still growing.
I'm working on a few more units to conquer Joao. (I'd rather go sooner than later. Justinian is ahead in techs, and if he's going to jump in, I'd rather he do it before gunpowder.) I'll also get a longbow in every city Justinian might target, a few maces and pikes playing zone defense, and a stack of knights as a strike force. I can't match him on the sea, but I can sure as heck defend my island.
And one more test: If you create a vassal, can each of your cities trade with theirs? The answer: No. You get one trade route total with each of their cities:
Spoiler:
Before:
After:
(I did that as a test, after saving at the end of the turnset. It's not part of the game).
Also, I just noticed that Louis and Justinian are no longer in Mercantilism. I'll close borders with them right away.
Next turnset: Conquering Joao (hopefully).
By the way, in terms of long-term plans, I pretty much always play for conquest / domination. I'll probably conquer Gilgamesh's island before going after Justinian.
Banking completes in 1125. With a Great Spy burning a hole in my pocket, and most cities at a respectable size, this seems like a great time and for a Golden Age.
Civics:
Spoiler:
Caste system / mercantilism / pacifism.
My cities, maxed out on specialists:
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I tweak the numbers in 20 turns, adding or subtracting a specialist to bring each city to the brink of starvation at the end of the GA.
And one more city, grabbing a clams:
Spoiler:
(It's worth it with the free specialist.)
Next, techs. I think about gunpowder, which would be great protection if Justinian attacks me, but that's a short-term solution to what's fundamentally an economic problem. No, what I need is representation:
Spoiler:
30 turns. Between stealing gold from Joao and some failgold, I get it in 23, with one turn left in the GA.
1165: Great Scientist born in Babricate. If I research gunpowder, I think he'll bulb chemistry. No one has gunpowder yet, so being on the fast track to Steel and Frigates is a big deal.
1170: I grab the last seafood city.
Spoiler:
There's space for one more by the iron in Ragnar's former lands, too. But I'm waiting on Representation for that.
1180: Nationalism completes. Justinian and Louis have had Nationalism for a little while, but Taj is still available, and Justinian will trade me marble for stone. I starve Elephanto to make it in 20 turns:
Spoiler:
Nationalism also opens up nationhood. The spy points aren't really important, but I'm paying 35 GPT for Bureaucracy, which is basically breakeven:
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So I swap, bump the slider up one, and shave a turn off Constitution.
Also, a little AI comedy for you. Joao destroys the walls in a city that already has a castle. And he pays handsomely to do it:
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1215: Another Great Spy. I'll save him for a Golden Age after conquering Joao.
Also, Justinian completes Taj. I was around halfway done. But the failed gold is really helpful, and lets me run 100% research.
Spoiler:
1235: Constitution completes. Without Rep, 100% research was bringing in 832 BPT. With Rep, it jumps to 1244. Now, that's in a golden age, and starving my cities to maximize GPP, but it still feels good.
Also, Joao finally made himself useful again. He researched aesthetics, and I steal it for less than half price.
Spoiler:
Next turnset, I'll swap back to production, conquer Joao, then pop another golden age.
Louis is doing well, too. He's up Military Tradition and Astro. Here's a shot of the tech screen from last turnset (I take lots more shots than I typically use):
Spoiler:
But I'm blowing the other continent away. One thing on my mind is the order of conquest. Do I pick off easier targets like Gilgamesh, or just go for Justinian straight away? Because if I'm focused on G, and J declares on me, it could be ugly. But I don't have to decide that until after Joao.
Don't Capitulate Yet! (Turns 547-560, Years 1235-1300 AD)
The turnset starts with the last couple turns of golden age. I get another Great Scientist, and a good start to Gunpowder. At the end of it, I leave the civics because (1) these zero-cost civics are actually great for a large empire, and (2) I have a few cities that almost got to the next GP, and I want to let them finish up before putting them back on production.
1255: I am, indeed, the largest empire. Comforting to know, since I'm definitely not the most advanced. (See my reply to coanda, above.)
Spoiler:
1275: Gunpowder completes. I bulb 3/4 of chemistry, and it will complete and five more turns.
1285: My spy is ready to go in Joao's city. I declare war.
Spoiler:
I don't have a Navy that can stop Justinian, but I put my carvels between us so at least I'll get a warning and draft some muskets.
Spoiler:
1295: Chemistry completes. Right now, it just improves workshops. But astronomy is next, after a side trip to theocracy (4 turns).
My stack arrives at Joao's city. Between when I declared and now, it's popped its borders again, crushing Oporto. (You can see it at the bottom of the screenshot below). I'm glad I was prepared for this war, because I would've had to have it anyway.
I send the city into revolt, lose a treb and two cats, and the problem is solved:
Spoiler:
See how Oporto is culture crushed, at the bottom of that shot.
It's fairly nice. 10 people, an Academy, and a couple other buildings.
Spoiler:
I'd rather it was 1N, but not worth razing. I keep it.
The really important part is Oporto, though:
Spoiler:
My bureaucratic capital is finally good.
Also in 1295, Louis demands 80 gold. Easiest +1 diplo I ever got.
1300: Joao will capitulate. He wouldn't last turn. Between turns, he attacked me with a pike. Was that really what he was waiting on?
But I have a problem. I haven't cleared enough cities. His culture will keep Navajo constantly revolting:
Spoiler:
I can't give it back, because then Oporto will start revolting.
But I also don't want Joao dragging Justinian into this.
I'm not hugely afraid, because I'm the only one with guns. Most likely scenario is, I finished off Joao, kill one landing party, and make peace. And I'd really like to finish off Joao. But it just feels smarter to avoid the war until I have Astronomy. What do you think?
Joao just got Drama, plus there's no tech trades. But he can become Justinian's vassal, which would make Justinian declare on me. That's what I'm worried about.
(When a guy will capitulate to you, he'll generally also vassal to someone else.)
But I think I'll keep the war going. Justinian's navy beats mine, but my land troops beat his. So he can kill some work boats, land a stack and get slaughtered, then we'll make peace and all be happy. That's the plan, anyway.
Claiming My Island (Turns 560-571, Years 1300-1352 AD)
I decide to finish conquering Joao, and risk him vassaling to Justinian. I have guns, and Justinian doesn't:
Spoiler:
When I get research vision again, it turns out Justinian is researching Communism.
Sure, he has naval superiority, and a good human could leverage that to do hit and run attacks, avoiding my forces and razing coastal cities. But the AI isn't that good. All he'll do is kill some fishing boats, land in the most obvious place and get crushed by my stack of whipped knights and draft muskets.
I end the turn, holding my breath. No war horn. No one coming to Joao's rescue. I'm safe to finish him off.
1310: Theology completes. No need to swap yet, but now I can make a 4-exp, 2-upgrade navy.
And I take Evora. Same deal: Revolt the city, lose a couple siege, conquer.
Spoiler:
This was an iceball to get horses. Raze.
(You can see the BFC of Joao's other cities in that shot, to the NE and SW. The city to the SE is the one I took last turnset.)
At this point, I consider taking Joao as a vassal, because his other cities are far enough out of the way that they won't flip anything. But I'm worried that he'll drop a city where Evora used to be, and it'll cause trouble when it reaches the 2nd border pop (which is pretty easy this late in the game).
Now that Joao is out of the area, I found another city on the desert iron:
Spoiler:
This picks up a floodplains, 2 grasslands, and some scrub. With food for 2 specialists and an extra one from Mercantilism, that's 18 CPT. With trade routes, that's around 25. We're into the stage of the game where just a few farms make a city viable.
Why settle on the iron? Well, a 4H tile is no big deal at this point, but an extra hammer from the center tile is nice.
1325: Next is Lagos, the iceball with the fish and furs.
Spoiler:
I don't think I'm ruining anyone's suspense by showing you that I did, indeed, capture it. Also, dude built a forge and collosseum here. Wat?
This was once a good National Park city, but Joao chopped all the tundra forests. Whatever. It's good enough with just the fish.
On this one, I don't have a spy, and I don't want to wait for my 2 siege to bombard it down. So I just attack. More losses than usual, but it's all obsolete stuff anyway.
Spoiler:
I settle the Great General in SE Horse. There's no one city cranking out super-high-exp units, but I have two coastal cities with +2 exp each, which lets me get 2 upgrade ships with just Theocracy, 3 with drydocks.
Also around now, I steal Drama from Joao's last city, then march down there.
I think about taking him as a vassal and just stealing his gold every few turns, but he'll hate me forever, which means constant spy headaches, and he could still re-settle Evora. Plus, wiping him out will get all his former cities some more happiness, and since Oporto is my bureaucratic capital, that's worth quite a bit.
1345: Next Great Scientist born in Hettite. Save him for a bulb, and shuffle around specialists. Hettite turns off specialists, and the next 2 cities with GP coming out turn a couple more on.
1352: The final showdown with Joao. Which sounds much more dramatic than it is.
Spoiler:
I don't have quite enough EPs to revolt his city, so I just attack. The losses aren't even that bad.
Spoiler:
Lots of infrastructure and a settled Great General. Nice.
The Portugese are no more. My people no longer yearn for their homeland.
By the way, for anyone considering using tiny islands to drive trade while running Mercantilism, here's my trade routes:
Spoiler:
They're inching toward 3 CPT. The key is to focus your island cities on growth, rather than specialists, so they get past size 10 and make strong routes. I may even keep Merc long-term, since it's bringing in 6 BPT x 25 cities = 150 BPT (187 BPT with libraries), plus some GPP.
Next turnset, I'll build a navy, then pop a second Golden Age and try for tech superiority.
I Love Golden Ages (Turns 571-598, Years 1352-1406 AD)
1358: A brief scare when I see Justinian's stacks with some galleons.
Spoiler:
I sat a few cities to military and prepare to draft, but his stack doesn't go anywhere. It's good to have another couple knights lying around, anyway.
I'm also thinking about corporations. Sid's sushi would be really good.
Spoiler:
Normally, I'm not a fan of corps. Too much micro. Still, good to keep in mind. I'll see about landing a great merchant.
1362: My 25th city. I think the island is full now.
Spoiler:
It gets some of the grass farms overlapping with Banana.
Also, astronomy finishes, and I spend one turn on literature for the epics. (I'll have marble once the borders of Joao's last city pop.)
I take a break, to think about my next move. I've had this great spy sitting around, waiting to start another golden age. But I'm not sure what to do with the GA. Mostly, I use golden ages for great people, usually great scientists. But what to do with great scientists at this point?
Spoiler:
I don't want education. Not that it's bad, but I don't have a lot of cities dying for universities, and I'd rather put the hammers into either troops or wealth. And I plan to stick with mercantilism, so none of the techs after education matter, either, until I'm ready for assembly line (which is a long way off). Basically, I'd rather save the beakers.
Here's the plan I come up with: Tech paper and printing press. Double-bulb scientific method, then tech biology. Triple bulb physics. (Not that I really want it, but it gives the scientists something to do, at least). At that point, education will be next bulb, but that's a lot of great people from now.
1364: My Golden age starts. It costs the great spy and a great scientist. Cities halfway to a great person run extra specialists. Other cities just do what they've been doing.
Spoiler:
Paper in 2.
On civics, I've been staying in nationhood and pacifism. Swapping to bureaucracy costs 50 GPT in civic upkeep, which eats all the profits. And, with 25 cities, I can support a reasonable military at very little cost under pacifism. I used to love organized. Now I just love zero upkeep civics.
1368: Another great scientist. That makes two, for scientific method.
Spoiler:
The bulb is worth 6500. Not quite enough for Education. Once I research Printing Press, he'll work with another GS to bulb Scientific Method.
SE Horse returns to production.
1370: A barb galley in the North. What kind of BS is this? There's no fogged tiles.
Spoiler:
It takes out the fishes before I can get there. Sucks.
1380: Printing press finishes. Double bulb scientific method. Biology in 14. I'm loving the bulbing, and golden ages.
I've also been screwing around with privateers. I sink a few carvels, and pillage a few seafood, but don't really do very much. There are enough carvels to sink solo privateers, and even pairs of them, and no island cities scream out for blockade. Mostly, I wind up going after Louis, since he has Colossus. Seems like a good guy to blockade, but really, I don't think the privateers pay off.
Anyway, around now, I switch to frigates and galleons. I want to conquer people, not annoy them.
1388: Great artist born in Lisbon. At the time I was all WTH. But now, I notice it was around a 50% chance, due to Joao's wonders. And I need music to get military tradition. So maybe this guy's useful, after all.
1402: Another great scientist. If I get a great merchant next, I can pop another golden age.
1406: Biology. I now have all the techs for a killer specialist economy. Oporto, which I planned as my bureaucracy cap, hasn't really done anything. No point in farming it now, though I do kind of wish I'd pillaged and farmed when I took it.
Next, I'm thinking steel and military tradition. Which will give me the most advanced land forces, along with the most advanced Navy. Justinian can have democracy and communism, I'll show him that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
If I were playing for longer-term economic advantages, I'd take Gilgamesh and Zara as vassals. In Mercantilism, you still get trade routes with vassals.
But here, I'm thinking to attack Justinian first. His techs give him a long-term research advantage. My military techs give me a temporary advantage, and I intend to use it. But I'll check the diplo screen next turnset, make sure he didn't research guns while I wasn't looking.
Wth? I don't know where that barb galley could've come from.
If you're still thinking about going for corps (which I assume means Sushi), you might want to starve your cities to get there. Once you get the corp, you should grow back really quickly anyway.
just remember you will go against airships without beachhead, imo you need SP if you really want to go with warfare and I would maybe wait for better military tech now (tanks come to mind)...
you have 25 cities, it's enough to cheese space ship especially when AI's can't trade techs and thus vassals have only military value.
If you want to attack Justinian now, you could start by taking Louis' cities. This would look like an easier way to establish a beachhead then attacking Justinian first.
Thanks guys. I have open borders with Louis, so the beachhead isn't a problem. (I re-opened with him and Justinian after swapping to Mercantilism, for the +1 diplo.)
I thought about going for spaceship, actually. Might try it, for a change of pace. Not wild about getting into the time when corps are basically required, but it could be safer than conquest.
Today I'm thinking about the plan. Because I don't see a clear path to victory. Not that I think I'll lose -- I'm in the best position, I just don't see the path yet.
Tech screen:
Spoiler:
And the map:
Spoiler:
Louis and Justinian are to the west, Gilgamesh, Hammurabi and Zara to the southeast.
Justinian is significantly up. He's still missing Chemistry (and Bio), but he's got guns, airships, and can tech rifles. Not suicide by any means, but not an easy victory.
I'm slightly ahead of Louis, but he has Military Tradition and can research gunpowder to put up a good fight. Not a difficult war, but he's got great relations with Justinian, and I don't want to get double-teamed.
The other island is horribly behind. They have Astro, and can research guns, but it'll be my cannons + frigates vs their muskets + galleons. Easy.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Make a medium stack. 7 cannon, 15 muskets, plus the garbage I have lying around (knights, elephants, etc). And 5 galleons and a few frigates. Send them to conquer the weak continent.
Hammurabi (Gilgamesh's vassal) has a few cities on an island. Wipe him out, then grant his island independence as a new vassal that loves me and has all my techs. Vassal Gilgamesh normally, then gift back his cities. I'm not looking for cities with colonial expenses, I'm looking for trading partners and military allies.
March that stack through Zara. Same deal as Gilgamesh -- I'm looking for allies, not cities. My population advantage should keep them vassalled easily.
While that's happening, make a stack to conquer Louis. 10 cannon, 20 muskets, 10 cuirassairs, something like that. I have open borders with Justinian, so the beachhead is no problem.
If Justinian declares on me at any point in here, my navy should kill half his troops in transit, and cannon + knights / cuirs will take care of his landing party. Then he'll probably make peace. Really, we're both strong enough that we can defend our islands, but not easily attack the other. If he declares, I'll lose open borders, but I can make a beachhead against Louis any time I want.
And if Justinian doesn't declare on me? Then it's the whole world against him. Sure, him vs me is a bloody war, but him vs me + 4 allies? Sounds pretty easy.
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