Rhye of Imperialism

[Steb]

I still think 1901 would be better. And I think it should spawn after Canada: Australia is much younger. But 1858 is all right, I guess. The thing is, Britain won't hold the territory for very long, if the cities are built about their historical time (Melbourne 1835, Brisbane 1824, Perth 1829 etc. only Sydney is decently early in 1788).

Edit: oops while I was slowly writing you guys discussed a lot about it. That's right, ask an Australian.

 

[Lean]

What about the Irish lads? What about them!

 

[JiimBV]

I don't like the idea of multiple UU's. It usually starts out well then swells to ridiculous standards IMO.

Fair enough.

This is really broken. I'd go for the +1 movement only in your lands though.

Really broken? How'd you mean? And sure, that works. I wasn't too crazy about the idea in the first place, but whatever works with people.[/QUOTE]

I don't really see the point of this one. I would never build it because it seems like a waste.

Yeah, but someone going for a diplomatic victory might..

I like it. You can turn a little crap city into something awesome(like a 1 hill tile city surrounded by mountains on the east and water on the west) with this and Moai Statues. Or I would just use this on Salt Lake City.

That's what I was thinking. Turning a useless Peruvian city into something worthwhile.

Really powerful...might be too much.

Err.. +25% in every city on this continent with power? Much less useful for colonial European countries, but huge usefulness for single-continent empires like Russia, China and the U.S.

Again, seems pointless. Give it a Topkapi Palace effect and I'd love it.

That palace in Istanbul? What effect does that have? Err... how 'bout something like.. Vassals are free, and will give you anything you want from them without question (techs, money, cities, etc.)? Makes vassals of European powers worthwhile, rather than draining your economy.

Good stuff.

Thank you.

I can see this being great for crap cities like Siberia and northern Canada.

Thanks again!

Is there nothing like this yet? I like it.

!!!

We don't need 4 >.>

I know, but I wrote in Buckingham Palace, but couldn't think of anything for it. So I just gave it that.

I don't see this working out well.

How do ya mean? And same as Buckingham Palace, couldn't think of anything for it.

 

[dagriggstar]

Well we were still pretty divided in the 1850's...here's a rough timeline how federation happenned

- 1880's at this point there's some very basic ideas, including Australia being composed of Australia, New Zealand and Fiji (But not Western Australia ie Perth)
- 1890's we realise "oh crap its almost the start of the 1900's we should get this thing done before then because its a big and scary event. Fiji already pulled out
- At federation - New Zealand pulls out at the last hour (we no literally but you get the idea) while Western Australia joins in the last second.
- 1920's/30's Western Australia decides to unjoin (This lasted like a month somewhere in that time period...) and become a seperate nation. Make their own flag then the rest of the states look at them as if to say "you look ridiculous, what the hell are you doing" and they get all self-concious and are like "nothing" and decide not to leave the country...

But the point is - Federation only really kicked off in the 1890's. What you could foreseeably do is...
UP - The power of mateship (Australia can ask for more than one city at congresses and other civs are more likely to give them cities)
Then
1899 - Spawn Australia in Canberra (sinice that is the capital of Australia...even though it didn't get founded until later because Melbourne and Sydney were having a hissy fit over which city should be the new capital)
1901 - World congress. (1 turn to try to sure up relations) The Australian civ can ask for however many cities there are on its own continent. (So in theory you could simulate if WA didn't join straight away (though Perth doesn't get founded an awful lot in my experience), Aus/NZ commonwealth etc.). This also means that if Australia isn't wholey British (should be a chance of this happenning, not only Dutch chance but also French (primary threat to British colonisation) and German (Well, I know in my own city of Adelaide there was a signifigant German presence.) chances

From there you play as a vassal of Britain. With the statute of Westminster (Same act that would give Canada and South Africa independence in the game) we were given the oppurtunity to become independent but didn't ratify until during WWII (during WWII we really just switched from UK vassal to US vassal if you like )

 

[Mekajiki]

I'm not going to bother with this quoting mess that I started anymore. I'll just address a few things.

Golden Gate Bridge: Double movement for roads/rails makes it possible to travel ridiculous distances in a single turn. It's just too powerful. The +1 movement is also really powerful if you can use it outside of your own territory because it gives Tanks and Cavalry 3 movement points, enough to move between many cities in Europe in a single turn, and would obsolete the Musketeer completely as any Musketman in the land owning this wonder would be the same as a Musketeer. +1 movement in your own lands is strong, but I don't think it's stronger than a wonder necessarily can be.

CN Tower: I hadn't thought of Diplomatic Victories. I guess it would be rather useful there, but maybe too powerful. I don't think someone going for a diplo victory would be at war with too many civs, which would bump everyone to friendly and create an auto-win.

Itaipu Dam: I was thinking of the US when typing most of my responses. 25% hammers isn't too bad really, it's just that a country like the US has all of it's land on one continent and that's a literal 50% boost to all of their hammers. It's just too strong really, 25% would probably work though it would have to be debated further.

Empire State Building: The Topkapi Palace allows you to build the unique units of your vassals. Most mods include it as a percent chance such that if you are England and have France as a vassal, you can build Musketman and there's x% chance that it will turn into a Musketeer when built. It is a different percent in many mods and I believe in RFC:E it's a 100% chance. I like this and I feel it really makes vassals useful. If you vassalize someone with a really strong UU, you can really benefit from it.

Buckingham Palace: I don't think we should be adding wonders for the sake of adding wonders. If we don't have a really good effect for it, I don't think we should include it. If someone can come up with a good effect, I don't think it would be terrible to include. We could also consider going the way of RFC:E and taking out some wonders that don't fit(Stonehenge, Hanging Gardens, Pyramids, etc) and giving their effects to newer wonders.

Big Ben: I don't think this would be easy to code and just like Buckingham Palace it seems that it's being thrown in for the sake of having it. It needs a much better effect to be considered IMO.

 

[kairob]

Again, wonders arrn't going to be added until later, the isnt much point discussing them at the moment.

About Australia, we can't make it too complicated, isn't the a simpler method then asking for loads of cities at a congress?

 

[Mekajiki]

Yeah, I really don't see any reason whatsoever that Australia shouldn't spawn as one nation like everyone else. I'm sure it's not the only example of a country that was originally a loose federation of states at it's creation becoming a unified nation(I'm hinting at the Articles of Confederation here if you're not getting it).

Have them spawn whenever it seems right for them to be relatively unified and maybe just don't include Western Australia in the spawn.

 

[JiimBV]

Well, why not? I know they won't be added until later, but we can get this out of the way. I mean, it'll have to be done sooner or later.

But, just one last time, to respond to Mekajiki that the Topakapi Palace sounds amazing. You could have tons of great UUs later on, making it a very powerful wonder. As for the CN Tower, maybe "Friendly" with Defensive Pact Allies, "Pleased" with neutral/open borders, and "Cautious" with enemies. As for the British ones, no idea has struck.

That's it. No more wonder-talk. For now... Or until you say we can.

 

[Mekajiki]

Try RFC:E if you haven't yet. My first game I played as Germany and at the end of the game I had Austria as a vassal and their UU is the last cavalry unit in the game. Needless to say, I had about 200 years of waiting for my last UHV condition to kick in, so I used their UU to conquer France, Burgundy, and Poland

 

[Bonci]

Italy - 1814

so there's going to be a sort of italian resurgence?

 

[Zagoroth]

Unless there is a way slowly give cities to Australia, in other words timed flipping of cities, then all cities should flip to Australia. I say this because it is unrealistic for Australia to have to fight to take all of its cities on the continent. They were all slowly given their right to rule themselves under the British crown.

 

[BurnEmDown]

So in civ terms Australia was vassal of Britain which slowly liberated cities to them to make them a more useful vassal and lose negative stability from them.

 

[Zagoroth]

Yes, but is there a way to actually have the English Empire do that?

 

[Bonci]

maybe this mod should end in 1970-80 with the decolonization?

 

[Mekajiki]

If we're going to take it to the 80's, there's no reason not to just finish it off...

Also, I like how it seems it's going to turn into RFC for full game. RFGW for 3000 BC to 600 AD, RFC:E for 500-1800 AD, RoI for 1500-2000 AD.

It's a very cool way for the three specialized time periods to work.

 

[Bonci]

yeah but how to deal with the decolonization?

 

[Panopticon]

yeah but how to deal with the decolonization?

The large civs account for most of the decolonisation up to 1950. Africa/Caribbean/SE Asia can be addressed with an amended stability system, in which colonial cities are more likely to declare independence under instability.

One idea: Rather than having a civ just collapse when it's unstable, it should lose all its cities outside a "home area" but keep its domestic cities.

 

[fireclaw722]

Zulu and South Africa are almost in the same region so they could be representsd by one civ. Pretty much the same with Khmer and Indonesia

 

[kairob]

True, although at present none of those civs are included.

 

[fireclaw722]

Small suggestion/comment, adding Austria maybe cool and all but, it stops Germans from becoming a power in the later parts of the game. Then they stay the rest of the game a vassal and seem to do nothing. I've seen it happen when(unluckly for Germany) Russia got the Polish area with one of it's settlers when the Germans settled Berlin, Frankfurt(since it was razed by barbs), and Copenhagen while the Romans had the Austrian area and Northern Greece(not all though). Germany would have then vassalized to me(France), Rome, or Russia(but instead I Restarted and got a more powerful Germany, Rome, and Greece.