Rhye's Catapult

[Elhoim]

Rhye, I know that you like the current game speed, but is there a possibility that a slower one might be added in the future? Thanks!

 

[Blasphemous]

I disagree about the wonders. Who cares if england gets its traditional wonders. Remember, this isnt a historical simulation. All the talk about making wonders easier IMHOP is a very bad idea. Wonders appear fine as is.

You are wrong, this very well is a historical simulation. That is, this mod simulates realistic histories. You are right that things don't have to play out just as in real history. The important thing, as I have said before, is that things very well may play out as they did in real history. When the odds are stacked completely against England getting the national wonders historically belonging to her at around the times they were historically created, that is bad historical simulation.
The gameplay must always receive first priority of course, but the possibility of historical realism, for this mod, must come in a close second. It is the purpose of this project. We must only remember to make sure not to break the already excellent gameplay.

I do agree that theres no time to colonize but until we can have more civs around at any given moment lengthening time periods is a bad idea. Once Warlords introduces more civs then we can lengthen all eras. Especially the age of colonisation.

The it's not just my ineptness that didn't give me a chance to colonize. Good. The solution, of course, is not to add turns, which would slow the mod down (speed being right after historical simulation on the mod's priority list, in my eyes). What should instead be done is either have England spawn a tad earlier (in a suitable historical date) to give it more time to create infrastructure in the British Isles; or to have scripted barbarians spawn there to get some work done before England starts playing; or to give England some more starting bonuses such as buildings in its cities, to allow the civ to focus its active efforts on more important things.
The barbarian option sounds best to me. There were Celts there long before everybody starting invading Britain, right? Then have some Barbarians represent them.

 

[Eddiit]

You are wrong, this very well is a historical simulation. That is, this mod simulates realistic histories. You are right that things don't have to play out just as in real history. The important thing, as I have said before, is that things very well may play out as they did in real history. When the odds are stacked completely against England getting the national wonders historically belonging to her at around the times they were historically created, that is bad historical simulation.
The gameplay must always receive first priority of course, but the possibility of historical realism, for this mod, must come in a close second. It is the purpose of this project. We must only remember to make sure not to break the already excellent gameplay.


The it's not just my ineptness that didn't give me a chance to colonize. Good. The solution, of course, is not to add turns, which would slow the mod down (speed being right after historical simulation on the mod's priority list, in my eyes). What should instead be done is either have England spawn a tad earlier (in a suitable historical date) to give it more time to create infrastructure in the British Isles; or to have scripted barbarians spawn there to get some work done before England starts playing; or to give England some more starting bonuses such as buildings in its cities, to allow the civ to focus its active efforts on more important things.
The barbarian option sounds best to me. There were Celts there long before everybody starting invading Britain, right? Then have some Barbarians represent them.

Well historically rome WAS in england. London was founded by rome though under a different name.

 

[Elhoim]

Yeah, but it is almost impossible to reach there while playing with Rome, as a matter of fact it is impossible to build the empire they did in the past...

 

[Blasphemous]

Yeah, I've been lamenting the impossibility of a real Roman Empire for so long I don't even bother to mention it anymore, I'm afraid.

 

[Barak]

In my last game as Rome, I controlled ALL of the European continent, North Africa, Asia Minor and the north half of the Middle east. I also settled Brazil with three cities, conquored the Americans, and had sights on the Aztec when I won a cultural victory :

 

[Barak]

What is the current situation with the religions. Do they appear on their own, or mjust they be researched.

My new game is with China. It is 50BC, and Persia has founded both Confucianism and Taoism in 330 and 110 BC respectively. Christianity is not yet founded. Granted I did NOT research the appropriate techs, but I would have assumed such old religions would have been founded in my lands by then.

 

[Elhoim]

Yeah... I´ve been trying since ROC to no avail... That´s one of the reasons I want a longer version, besides I always use slower speeds and I find this too fast, besides I feel like history is passing way too fast...

 

[Elhoim]

In my last game as Rome, I controlled ALL of the European continent, North Africa, Asia Minor and the north half of the Middle east. I also settled Brazil with three cities, conquored the Americans, and had sights on the Aztec when I won a cultural victory :

Yeah, but the point is conquering all of the roman empire territory before 500 AD, just like what happened. That´s impossible to do in such small timeframe...

 

[Barak]

Yeah, but the point is conquering all of the roman empire territory before 500 AD, just like what happened. That´s impossible to do in such small timeframe...

I agree. With the constant threat of barbarian spawns and new civ spawns.

 

[Blasphemous]

Let's organize a series of contests for the sake of project development and fun. We can call it Catapult Historical Challenge.
Each time, we will select one historical achievement that has had a large impact on history and is difficult (or hypothetically impossible) to achieve. Then, there will be a set time (a few weeks to about to months) for people to achieve the challenge using the latest version of the mod (which may change during this time). If nobody manages, we can consider this historical achievement impossible and decide whether it should stay that way or if perhaps the mod should be changed to make it possible.
Like with the RoX [not-so-]Monthly Challenge, one of us can maintain a page tracking the challenges and the winners etc.
With this kind of focussed group effort, we can discover some very important things about the mod. The first challenge I propose is of course creating the Roman Empire: play as Rome and control approximately the area encompassed in the Roman Empire at the height of the empire (69-138 AD) at some point between 50 AD and 200 AD. This area is Italy, Iberia, France, England (but not Scotland and Ireland), Greece, Asia Minor [Turkey], Romania, Croatia, Switzerland, Austria, Judaea, Egypt, and all of the North African coastline. (I happen to have a historical map of the Roman Empire in my room, with the Height of the Empire period displayed by far the largest. This is very useful. A quick googling found a primitive Internet alternative. [EDIT: here's a nice one])
I will make my first attempt the moment I finish the England game (tomorrow or the next day, I hope). Is anyone else with me?
(By the way, with the Rise and Fall system it's no longer dangerous to give Rome the strength to get this huge territory, since now it will likely still collapse in a rather historical manner [and this was completely impossible in Civ 3 of course.])

EDIT: I just realized, to my great amusement, that there were times in RoCX development when I would argue for a more powerful Rome and Rhye would disagree, and times when he was going to add Israel to the game and I was strongly against it.

 

[Barak]

That sounds like fun Blas! I'm in

I assume we are looking for cultural control? Or do we need a city in England?

 

[Blasphemous]

That sounds like fun Blas! I'm in

I assume we are looking for cultural control? Or do we need a city in England?

Let's say your border must believably cover over 90% of the Height territory, without any province left out (so you can skim a bit at the edges but you can't ignore an area.)

 

[a1Basco]

I hate to disagree with you guys, but managed to get Rome as big as it was. It might have just been luck, but I was almost did it entirely with the Legions that you start with, and of course a few settlers.

I had all of southern Europe, all the northern border of Africa, Israel, Turkey, the historical borders. It isn't impossible, especially if Egypt is weak in your game.

Edit: Oh wait, then again, I didn't have upper France or England. But all the conquests I did were really early, it was a rush conquest. This was a couple of versions ago though.

 

[Elhoim]

(By the way, with the Rise and Fall system it's no longer dangerous to give Rome the strength to get this huge territory, since now it will likely still collapse in a rather historical manner [and this was completely impossible in Civ 3 of course.])

Yep, when Spain, France, Germany, England and Arabia spawns it is all over for the Romans...

EDIT: 400th post!

 

[Elhoim]

Let´s share a few tips for doing this, while Rhye is still away

Which city would you capture first? Cartago and the other one are level 1 in pop, so they would just get destroyed if you capture them. Perhaps Cadiz as it gets really strong later on.

Perhaps we should start a new thread on this topic, and in time perhaps will become a strategy guide for Rome

 

[Rhye]

-> Religions are founded through techs

-> I would make longer timelimes if I made the simultaneous turns idea work

-> Whatever contest you are doing, please try to gather info for possibly writing strategy guides

-> We will soon leave this thread, because we are moving to a new whole subforum here in CFC! So please stay here with that contest until it is open; you'll have your own thread there

 

[Elhoim]

-> I would make longer timelimes if I made the simultaneous turns idea work

I hope it does!

 

[Blasphemous]

Holy dung, a whole CFC subforum! Wow, that is just awesome.
As to the historical challenge, I think we should also add that all cities have to be on the trade network, because it may be too easy to just pepper the area with cities in time. But now that I think about it if expansion is given the first priority it should not be impossible to achieve this challenge. The next should of course be some kind of English colonization challenge.

 

[Elhoim]

I also think it would be fair to not start with a neighbour of Rome, as you could do all the work pre-apparition of the civ.