Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded - PART II

I'm back!

Mostly because I can barely move. My little brother ignored my pleas for help while I lay moaning on the kitchen floor this morning... relatives suck... sometimes.

Hi Blas!

Looks like you guys have been up to some serious stuff!
 
WARNING: Lengthy thread ahead!

I've been playing the RoCX mod for a few weeks now, and I have to say that in my decade of playing Civ and all its variants, this is the best, most compelling modpack I've ever tried. I've been playing on Monarch, trying to get a feel for the nuances, and I've had a few Histographic victories with England and Japan (and some close-calls with Rome and Arabia), before finally picking up a Cultural Win with France. If you'll bear with me, here's a bare-bones mini-AAR:

[the approximate location of game cities is indicated by reference to nearby real-world city locations, except for initial capital cities]

Paris founded 4000BC
Orleans[Bucharest] founded 3000 BC (got really lucky with a goody hut)
Lyons [Luxembourg] founded 2000 BC
Marseilles [Belgrade] founded 1225 BC
Rheims [Nantes] founded 1050 BC
Tours [Strasbourg] founded 950 BC
Chartres [Bordeaux] founded 270 BC
Berlin captured 230 AD (refused to give into German demands -> war)
Asa Temple completed in Lyon in 310 AD
Hamburg [Warsaw] captured from Germany 330 AD
Stonehenge completed in Lyon in 570 AD
Vienna captured 590 AD (a pre-meditated assault on Austria)
Lagos [Dijon] captued 610 AD (culture-flip from Portugal)
Salzburg [L'vov] captured from Austria 670 AD
Constantinople captured 810 AD (another ambush, this time on Byzantines)
Louis Pasteur appears as SGL in 870 AD
Athens captured 950 AD (yet another planned assault, this time on Greece)
Sparta [Sparta!] captured from Greece 970 AD
St. Peter's Basilica completed in Paris in 1020 AD (Louis Pasteur used to rush-build)
Amsterdam captured 1040 AD (the Greeks brought the Dutch into the battle)
Rotterdam [Aarhus] captured from Dutch 1060 AD
Sogut captured 1150 AD (my last pre-emptive attack, this time on Ottomans)
Bilecik [Trebizond] captured from Ottomans 1180 AD
Hagia Sophia completed in Paris in 1220 AD
Crusades completed in Lyon in 1310 AD
Avignon [Belem] founded 1456 AD (France's first overseas colony)
Besancon [Recife] founded 1464 AD
Rouen [Buenos Aires] founded 1592 AD
Leonardo's Workshop completed in Vienna in 1640 AD (I built the FP there circa 1000 AD)
Magellan's Voyage completed in Rheims in 1648 AD
Shakespeare's Theater completed in Paris in 1720 AD
Grenoble [Asuncion] founded 1728 AD
Newton's University built in Vienna in 1764 AD
France's Golden Age begins in 1784 AD, as a Musketeer successfully defends Salzburg from a German sneak attack!
Leipzig [Riga] captured from Germany 1800 AD
Frankfurt [St. Petersburg] captured from Germany 1808 AD
India Trading Company completed in Sogut in 1816 AD
Munich [Kiev] captured from Germany 1824 AD
Konigsberg [Voronezh] captured from Germany 1832 AD
Moscow captured from Germany 1840 AD (Napoleon, this time we stay!)
Encyclopedia built in Vienna in 1888 AD

France wins a 35k Cultural Victory in 1926 AD

This game was fantastically fun! I used goody huts and tech trading to build up a tech lead which I never lost. After getting Philosophy first, I took Mounted Combat as my free tech, then researched to Monarchy, using the time to finish peaceful settling, then quick temple builds, then hordes of Horse Archers. After finishing my first warring period around 1200 AD, I switched to Republic, mostly so I could rush-build infrastructure in my valuable South American colonies. When war came again in the early modern period, I found out just how useful the French UU's are. I didn't lose a single Musketeer, allowing me to maintain a fast pace, together with the superb Grand Battery, which worked beautifully in the depths of Russia in conjunction with Cavalry. Then, I pretty much ran out the clock.

Thank You, Rhye!!! :crazyeye: :D

Final Notes (for now):

- Although Enkidu Warrior's write-up of Arabia puts them as a mediocre war-monger, I had no trouble building hordes of Ansar Warriors with only a handful of cities, as I simply built Horsemen and mass-upgraded (much easier given the lower upgrade costs of RoCX). Feudal Moarchy was also a perfect fit for the relatively small Arabian cities.

- Maybe it's just me, but it seems like no matter who I play now, if they're anywhere near Austria, I make like a crack-whore for Vienna, arguably the best city-site in the game. In similar fashion, unless I'm playing an Asian or Middle Eastern power, I always go for the same 4 spots in South America: Belem [rubber and spice], Recife [tobacco and gems], Asuncion [mustangs, great site to build Statue of Liberty], and Buenos Aires [port for Asuncion]. It feels a little deterministic, but I guess that's just because I'm smarter than the AI :p

- If you're playing below Emperor (like me), you'll never even see an airplane, let alone a spaceship. That's with maximum tech-trading and research strategies. I know, I know, I should step up to Emperor, but I don't really mind, as the game is exciting throughout.

- Can anyone advise the best candidates for a Spaceship Victory? England seems an obvious choice, but I've already tried them several times.

Thanks again to Rhye (and anyone else who read this far)!
 
Now then, about the RGC goals.

They won't be changed.
Not enough people agrees, and the competition credibility is far more important than a balancement issue.

When the results will be posted, I'll post here the alternative rating that would have been in that case.
 
maledicion
 
Warning:Lenthy thread

I have just finished my first game of RoCX using Russia by emperor level. Culture victory at 2045.
I like history and geography, so I expanded my Russia Empire with accuracy of history as far as possible.
In fact, I am a newbie of Civ3, so my strategy would have many problems.

Time Line (I do not remenber the accurate year, and I will use the real name of the cities in their locations)

4000 BC Moscow was built.

St Petersburg was built by hut(lucky).

The settler is too expensive, as a result, before it came out, AI had already started to build cities in my Russia Empire.

When my first settler was produced, the only empty place for me to build a city is at the position between Moscow and Arkhangel'sk, surrounded by cities built by the Europe and Asia invaders:

Netherlands occupied my Minsk.
Rome occupied my Voronezh, Kazan', Omsk in west Siberia and T'bilisi in Caucasus.
Austria took Kiev and Perm.
Byzantines took Odesa, Donets'k and Yekaterinburg.
Gemerny occupied the Kaliningrad, Rivne, Atyrau, Ufa, Chelyabinsk and Arkhangel'sk.
Spain occupied Murmansk( it should be the habor of Barents sea but there layed a tundra so it became a habor to Baltic sea)
Babylon occupied Baku.
Arabia occupied Tashkent.
Ottomans occupied Dushanbe.
Let alone Mongols occupied the whole Siberia, including Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk, Irkustk, ulan-uder(his capital), and Chita.

"We need living room. Our land is overcrowded." At the same time, we give prices to the mothers who bored the most sons.
"We are lack of raw materials, and they have surplus."
The war is the only way to solve the problem.

Who will be the first victim? Of course the Netherland, the softest. Without warning, our army matched over Minsk. Though only a few turns before, we promised to the Dutch: "The assertion that it is the intention of the Russia Reich to coerce the Minsk is absurd ..." After a few turns of efforts of Dutch intending to take back Minsk, we convinced them that it is impossible and obliged them to sign a peace treaty.

The next one will be Rome. Rome is tough. They have a good army. They have alliance with Byzantines. But their cities in Russia are too distant from Italy. Again, without warning, we occupied Kazan', which caused Byzantines declaring war on us.

But we have a strong military. Our amry forwarded and forwarded.

Voronezh...Donets'k...Odesa...

Though their army from Siberia intended to let me face the two front war, their newborn cities have not many shields to produce army. We destroyed them easily.

At this time, Austria suddenly declared war on me. It was a difficult time, but we finally won the war. Keiv was captured. The whole Ukraine is ours.

Perm...Yekaterinburg...Omsk...

I demand a peace treaty with them:"I have no further intrerest in the cities they have in Caucasus(Rome), that is guaranteed. We want no Caucasus."

Of course, it was a lie. The next target is just Caucasus, where lays the oil in future. But before my army got ready to attack, Babylon captured Donets'k by an army with elephants. If you want the war, it's the war. Babylon is powerful. When we intended to take the city back, Rome declared war on me. They have MPP with Babylon. Oh no, I am just defending my motherland, protecting my people in Donets'k from the evil reign of Babylon(though they are Byzantines citizens). But now we have knights, instead of arch horseman. The victory belongs to us.

T'bilisi...Baku...

The whole Caucasus is occupied. Just a few turns before,"I have no further intrerest in the cities they have in Caucasus, that is guaranteed. We want no Caucasus."

Now let us look at the Russia Empire. We have expanded from a a land country to an ocean country with ports in Baltic sea and Black sea. Though both are blocked by Germany,Netherland,Viking and Byzantines. Istanbul even blocked the only channel.(Now I started to understand why Russians eger to ocean with infinite passions in history)

We want a port to the ocean. The only choice is Barents sea. But Arkhangel'sk is occupied by Germany, and Germany is a superpower. They have three strong cities at my east line. We have expierenced a two front war, and do not want another one.

We decided to wait until the completion of the railway. It took some times, but it was proved to be correct. When the web of my railway was finished, the reaserch on artillary was also completed. It is time to war.

In three turns, my army, transported by the trains and aided by the fire cover of dozens of artillaries, conquered:

Chelyabinsk...Ufa...Arkhangel'sk...Atyrau...

Again, my army was transported to the west, this time, to take back our land in east Europe.

Rivne...Kaliningrad...

Germany was defeated, and have to pay golds to get a peace treaty.
Just a few turns before, we let Germans believe that:"Russia has concluded a Non-aggression Pact with Germany. We shall adhere to it unconditionally"...

Spain remained in Murmansk, but now no one could stop us. We are already the most powerful country in the world. Before they had time to land their army on Finland from their mainland, we demanded a peace treaty, and they agreed. Obviously, taking Murmansk has no meaning to them. They have colonies in Africa and South America.
Again, just a few turns before, "We have just concluded a Non-aggression Pact with Spain."... Spain will never forget.

But it is not enough. Arabia was still a superpower. USA will be a superpower in future. I decided to expand to the east, to the pacific, to be a real superpower. Mongols was ever a powerful country, but now they became weaker and weaker. Though the brave Mongols soldiers intended to get close to my army to attack, with railway and artillaries, they have no chance.

Novosibirsk...Krasnoyarsk...Irkustk...ulan-uder...Chita...

The Mongols was eliminated. "The Reich has put force no claim which might in any way be regarded as a threat to Mongols."

The Great Siberia Railway was built to Chita with workers from a lot of countries just in a few turns. Iron Works was to be constructed in Irkustk, which is the only position having both iron and coal in my empire. And a forbidan palace was needed to let it grow into a real industrial center.
The dream of expanding to the Pacific will soon come true. But the locations of Khabarovsk and Vladivostok were forests, surrounded by very bad terrains. So I decided to change the history. Shengyang was constructed by Korean, captured by Japan, now destroyed by China. It will be a good position to build Khabarovsk. Korean demand a millitary alliance against China, but we refused. Because just a few grid north to Seoul will be my Vladivostok, and China has no conflict with us.
But when my settler was ready to travel by the Great Siberia Railway to build my far east cities, China captured Seoul. What's more, they build Changchun, which was ever occupied by their Qin anccestors. It was not permitted. I dstroyed Changchun and Seoul. China seems to have a huge army(free UU), and they attcked from Mongolian Plateau. So after a few turns, I demanded a peace treaty. However our aim was reached. Khabarovsk and Vladivostok were built.

"The new Reich has endeavoured to continue the traditional friendship with China."Also just a few turns before.

I decided to let Vladivostok be the naval base of my Pacific Fleet, by building the Indian Trade Company. But the news came that Egyptions was also building it. It must be stopped. My fleet landed my army on the Africa and captured Alexander, and waited for my science leader to come out. The Indian Trade Company was finally built.

"Russia never had any confilict with the Egypt States and has none today"...

Central Asia will be our last target. Tashkent was occupied by Arabian. And Arabian is the second powerful country in the world. If we attack them, they will use dirty method(money, they have a lot of golds) to make every countries in his service to declare war on us. So we must act before them. We have technology advantage, and a few obsolete techs are nothing to us. We have tons of resouces, which can never be used up. Now the whole world led by the democratic Russia(yes, no doubt, there are no reason to choose communism. Democracy is the only system we believe in.) declare wars on Arabia. Now Arabia will never be a threat. Tashkent was deliberated from the evil reign by Arabia. At the same time, railway connected to Tashkent, transporting Uranium to build Manhattan Project and Nuclear Power Plant.

"No compromise is possible and the victory of the democracies can only be complete with the utter defeat of the war machine of Arabia."

The deliberation of Dushanbe was quite easy. In 1968, Kabul, ever controlled by Persia, was deliberated. The expansion of Russia Empire was over.

Now we can claim to the world: We are a peace-loving country. We never want any wars. We despise wars. Wars must be stopped by those foolish countries. This time, it is not a lie.


Just for amusement. I will paste my opinion on RoCX later.
 
Great work. Really accurate.

The final score:
1.Russia:As a result controled by player
2.Arabia:Think about the whole Arabia world, and it is a fact.
3.America:With no doubt. Though it was ever weak, the speed of development in 19th and 20th century gave me a deep impression. Suddenly from dirty houses to modern cities with the benifit of Statu of Liberty.
4.Japan:Always at the medium but grew power and power.

Egypt was ever powerful but became weak in modern age.
China got its most powerful time in middle age.
Inca was powerful in acient, but never again later.
England and France are always at the top rank.
Germany should be powerful if his neighbour is not Russia.

About the accuracy of geography:

1.America Continent is accurate. Very good terrains around Chicago. The Grany of the world. After building New York(in fact Boston) and Chicago, Detroit has not many room. Philadelphia has no chance. Houston is marsh(or forest?) In california, plains should be laid between the mountains.

2.Europe is accurate, except Murmansk I have mentiond before. And I remembered that "Ural is in fact not a clear barrier, with passable small hills"(of course not in English) in my middle school textbook.

3.Australia is accurate.

4.Asia:Japan is too big, but considering the game balance, it will be proper.

5.Africa: I do not know. Not familiar with Africa, but south Africa should be mainly plateau.

The Terrain of China is not very accurate. I modified it but do not know whether it would effect the balance.
North to Xi'an should be Huangtu Plateau, south to it Qinling Mountains. Plain Weihe is very fertile, and the Only way from Zhongyuan(Central China) to xi'an is Tongguan, a fortress very hard to attack because of the mountains, which makes Xi'an a perfect strategic position. Plain Sichuan is another strategic district surrounded by mountains and hills. More hills in South China. Wuhan was surrouded by hills in north. Boyanghu Plain and Dongtinghu Plain are two granies of China, producing rices.

The silkroad has been neglected. Go west from Xi'an lays a corridor between Mountains. Just along the north side of Mountain Chains of Kunlun is the famous(in China) Hexi Corridor, where lays chains of oasis including Dunhuang. The west side of Huang River should be Snow-capped Mountains.

Unlike Sahara, Central Asia should not be complete desert. There should be four important cities/districts.

1.Tashkent: the 4th biggest city of USSR with the population of about 1,400,000. The cotton base of USSR. The middle point of silkroad.

2.Almaty:about 1,000,000. An important spot on the North way of silkroad.

3.Urumqi:about 1,400,000, if surbub included, could be over 2000000, having oasis(Turufan) in south and fertile grassland in north. Another significant spot on the North way of silkroad.

4.kashi:about 200,000 in city, but the whole oasis district could be over 7,000,000 because of the water from Tibet Plateau. An important spot on the South way of silkroad.

Here should be the conflict spot of the civs on Europe-Asia-Africa continent. I modified the terrains and only 3 cities added(Tashkent already exists as an uranium city, and I added some oasis along the Silkroad to let it grow to 6)would have little effect on the speed of game play, and I think it will be interesting, but do not know the detail effect.
 
I have a question.
If I clear a forest hill(because it is a landmarkterrain of forest), will it become a hill, or a plain/grassland/tundra?
 
So I stongly suggest to change the forest hill as a landmark terrain of, for example, tundra.
 
Tundra is not allowed to have landmarks, and all the others are taken. Its just an unfortunate side effect of the editor's limitations. However, Rhye managed to minimize the strangeness of this by limiting placement.

I, for one, would be very interested in seeing your modifications. Since you seem very interested in geography, I am also curious about your views on the Carribbean, which I personally feel to be... rather less valuable than it historically was.

Now im off to be noisily sick! ;p

PS: Rhye, we always knew you were AT LEAST a clone of Sid!
 
Excellent work, thanks!!!
heimheim said:
Unlike Sahara, Central Asia should not be complete desert. There should be four important cities/districts.
I too so think
In an antiquity there there was Bactria which was a part of
empire Darija and then Alexander. In the Middle Ages there was a center of
Empire of Timur. At 17-19 Bukhara. In 19-th century became a part of Russia
after dispute with England.I have added in this area an oasis and AmuDarya,
running in Aral sea.

P.S. I have begun the first game for Rome.
 
Ok, my turn... :)

Mongolia. WOW, what a fun game it's been! Thought the terrain might hamper me big time, and I would have to make a quick dash for China and Korea, but not so! I've been tech leader since turn 1! Popped a city just north of Korea immediately, and got some techs from every goody hut in the Orient and India. My Mangudais were perfect for getting rid of those pesky "other" barbarian tribes to the west, and I was able to settle some prime city locations there just before Russia did, and by only taking one Greek settler. Took my Keshiks to Beijing via that helpful undefendable plateau, along with half-a-dozen crossbowmen for safe guarding. Korea went down soon after that. Decided to start moving my units out west to protect Siberia from Mother Russia, when- sure enough- she attacked! I retaliated with my shiny new Lancers and Cavalry (left one Mangudai to forever roam the Russian steppes for barbarian tribes- free gold!) and destroyed Russia right between the Western Europeans' colonies. Got a few armies and Military Academy from that war, decided to settle down and let my "Total Unit" count catch up with my "Allowed Unit" count. Had just started building railroads when Japan lands A SINGLE SPEARMAN by Beijing. I surround it with Riflemen and try to be reasonable, and finally have to ask it to leave. Japan declares war and loses Edo (closest to Korea) the next turn when I pop-rush a transport, my first ship. At this point I'm researching Marxism as a Theocratic Monarchy (had been since the third turn I got it) for Totalitarianism and Communism, since corruption is horrible in South China and Russia. Now I've battled every Japanese samurai conceivable (over two dozen in one turn by my body count ;)) and am FINALLY advancing on Tokyo, with my two Dreadnoughts knocking out the Galleasses and Caravels they throw at me two at a time. Two armies of Cavalry, two of Lancers, and one of Keshiks (Pentagon built, Keshik army only has 3), and over a dozen Riflemen, since I realized I had forgotten about RUBBER and OIL until now. Built a city in Malaysia with some workers to connect to Rubber, and found some oil in Russia.

Unfortunately, my brand-new Gateway laptop's in the shop for a crack repair, and while the turns aren't taking too long (about 2 minutes, tops), my desktop computer keeps asking for me to increase the size of the paging file ever few turns. I think I'll wait with that save for a while...

In the meantime, tried the Byzantines (Middle Ages, 3 cities, broke and scared of Germany :cry: but tech leader) and the Japanese (broke, tech leader, sole colonizer of Australia and beat the Persians to spice in India! :cool: ). Japanese save too big, working on the Byzantines.

RoCX is fun! :goodjob:
SilverKnight
 
I can't play Mongolia, I hate their leader
 
Hi Rhye

Just downloading your mod and expansion pack as I type this message. (Downloading on a dial up, so as you can imagine its pretty hilarious..)
Because of my wait Im having a proper look at the readme files and I have a query regarding the use of monarchy as the preferred government for the English.
Since I started playing civ 3 Ive often thought it was slightly inaccurate the way that cities and space on the map work within the game meaning that you can actually build very few cities on the English mainland which clearly doesnt tally with Englands domination of the world for such a long time and its high ratio of population to land size.

That being said, I would like to query your change of Englands preferred government from democracy to monarchy (a clear disadvantage)
Surely as the first country in the world to actually develop a modern day democracy (something the americans seem to mistakingly think they did?!) it would be more accurate to have the english aiming towards achieving a democratic government.
Englands 'democracy' started in the late 18th Century by which time the power of the monarch was clearly diminishing and by the early 19th century England was firmly established as the first and most powerful country in the world to have an elected governing body.
Clearly the English form of government changed from a traditional 'monarchy' long before most countries lost their traditional 'divine' rulers.
:king:
Chris
 
I played a game as Austria and I noticed that they can build Junks in addition to Galleys? Is this an error?
Also Settlers are very expensive making expansin idfficult. Is this intentional? And how does accelrated production chnage gameplay?
 
silver 2039 said:
I played a game as Austria and I noticed that they can build Junks in addition to Galleys? Is this an error?
Also Settlers are very expensive making expansin idfficult. Is this intentional? And how does accelrated production chnage gameplay?
The Junks are not an error... Everyone can build both... They're supposed to represent different types of boats of the era, regardless of the specific graphics and names.
Of course the settler cost is intentional. That's a central feature of the mod. It's much more historical this way.
Accelerated production simply makes everything cost half as much.
Anyways, I'm back. Gonna take a while to get used to non-German keyboards again. Gonna take even longer to get back into my old life. Damn that conference was awesome. ><
 
Lonedreamer said:
Hi Rhye
That being said, I would like to query your change of Englands preferred government from democracy to monarchy (a clear disadvantage)
Surely as the first country in the world to actually develop a modern day democracy (something the americans seem to mistakingly think they did?!) it would be more accurate to have the english aiming towards achieving a democratic government.
Englands 'democracy' started in the late 18th Century by which time the power of the monarch was clearly diminishing and by the early 19th century England was firmly established as the first and most powerful country in the world to have an elected governing body.
Clearly the English form of government changed from a traditional 'monarchy' long before most countries lost their traditional 'divine' rulers.
:king:
Chris
I agree and I would like to add that Canada is still in Monarchy in 2005... For sure we have Rebublic Democratic governement and we still vote but we still have the queen face on our money and we still have a "Gouverneur General" wich is only part of Monarchy. Monarchy is about to die but it's still a reality for people from Canada.

I still play your mods Rhye's and it's still the best out there. I don't post often cause i don't really have time but i'm still playing your mod all the time... I think i'm addicted...
 
silver 2039 said:
I played a game as Austria and I noticed that they can build Junks in addition to Galleys? Is this an error?
Also Settlers are very expensive making expansin idfficult. Is this intentional? And how does accelrated production chnage gameplay?

Hello,

in my version of Rhye's Mod I was introducing Merchant Boats (with different gfx) as a replacement of Junks for all Non-Asian Civs, because I was also annoyed by seeing Junks driving in Mediterrian Sea :). Next to this I was also replacing Byzantines by Malayans. (but the Indochina-Area is really a struggle for a civ).


You can download my modified version on the official Rhyes pages under Downloads - Other Users Alternative Version - Malay Mod by Rod.
 
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