Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Rhye]

Thanks!!
Now, let me explain some of the matters:

1) With crippling Europeans at the beginning I mean that Germany, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Austria and Holland have a LM grassland instead of a grassland. But I place an invisible resource with no name that adds +1 food or anything I want and make it appear for example around 1400 (with Astronomy).
With this trick it is possible to make tobacco appear in Europe after 1500 while it is in America at the beginning: I'll make a resource with the tobacco icon called "tobacco " with that space.

2)Unfortunately I can't do what I wanted - an A-bomb produced only once for the one who builds M.P. It seems that I'll need to add it normally in the tech tree, but I need to change its stats from the WWII conquest settings to be more balanced, considered that it should became obsolete with tactical nuke OR ICBM (don't know which one of the two)

3) Barbarians without uprisings mean less units around, but means easier expansion and more cities around, too. Anyway it was important to stop camps appearing, and I hope that it's done with "no barbarians" setting. I hope.

4) I agree that this mod needs a UU for american and african civs, but moving THAT guerrilla unit earlier is wrong. The word "Guerrilla" was invented during Napoleonic empire occupation of Spain. That would need a different unit graphics, a sort of bandit. And what before Nationalism? Has ever been a sort of resistance in occupied nations? In that case, what unit would be needed?

5) I didn't know that mod. armor airlift was possible. I had read that Abrahms is difficult to be moved around. But probably you're (el-oso) right

 

[EL_OSO]

Well if you are going to add a "bandit" type guerilla you might want to look at some of the other "conquest" scenarios and see if there is something in there.

Maybe you could have two guerillas in that case. An earlier, weaker version and the modern version. The one in Civ looks similar to a Viet Cong or Central American soldier.

Here is information on the C5 Galaxy.

It can carry 6 apache helicopters or 2 M1A1 Abrahms. It is a very large airplane.

 

[Aeon221]

Getting rid of America is fine... IF you can think of a way to bring them into the game later on. Otherwise, they need to stay. They are quite clearly an essential civ for the better part of the game, and are just weird for the beginning.

That is not what the debate is about

The problem with Korea is that it simply is making itself a little twit of a civ in the scenario by splitting up China and Mongolia, and grabbing WAYY more territory than it should.

How about cutting them off from the mainland, and making their primary city a not coastal one? We could keep them and still have a civ there, but one that would be significantly less likely to "steal" territory.

How does that sound?

I personally would recommend taking a few camps out of South America, simply because they do not get dealt with until late in the game when barbarians are irrelevant (and stupidly annoying) anyway. Unless you are playing as the ONLY civ that can build there right at the beginning, the Inca.

Take out radio, for patch reasons.

Bring back MA airlift, because there is already enough unreality that a little more will not hurt. Yes, it is possible to airlift a few tanks in real life, but it is simply impossible to airlift an entire division, which is what it means in the game. That is why America tried so hard to get an ROP deal with Turkey at the start of the Iraq war!

More later, gotta go to class!

 

[Eddiit]

Gueriallas are being modified to help keep disadvantaged civs in the game in the industrial and modern era. Resources will affect human players but its only right. Human players should not get advanteges. We already whoop on the AI left and right.

 

[Jaybe]

I'm against removing airlift capability for modern armor. How do you think America's modern armor gets overseas? We have a plane called the C-5 transport which does this quite well.

No, the C-5 does not transport battalions of M-1 tanks overseas with any frequency (perhaps they took ONE to Saudi Arabia for Desert Shield in 1990-91). The vast majority of tanks are shipped by ... SHIP. Prepositioned stockpiles are often used, but the logistical delays caused by mobilizing shipping and getting them where they need to be makes for long build-ups.

 

[EL_OSO]

Originally posted by Aeon221

That is not what the debate is about

Lets see... The debate is about this. You have the opinion that the Koreans should be removed because they are unimportant and shouldn't be taking land from China or the Mongols. I'm of the opinion that America has had a great impact on world history but they really don't fit in this mod because of its heavy "old world" flavor. While we're at it, why don't we remove the Dutch and the Byzantines? In every game I've played they steal land from Russia but then again so does Rome, Germany, Austria, France, and any other European civ once the land runs dry near their capital.

I get the idea that Rhye isn't going to remove, move, or add any of the present civs to avoid disrupting it for others which I'm okay with. You know what the solution is? The next time you play you can set the game up to not include Korea and I can set it up to not include America. That way you can play the mod the way you like and I can as well. It does take a little effort to select each one but then its customized how you like it.

Originally posted by Aeon221

Bring back MA airlift, because there is already enough unreality that a little more will not hurt. Yes, it is possible to airlift a few tanks in real life, but it is simply impossible to airlift an entire division, which is what it means in the game. That is why America tried so hard to get an ROP deal with Turkey at the start of the Iraq war!

First off its not unrealistic. The USAF has plenty of C-5 Galaxys at its disposal. I guess a lot of it depends on how you think of a unit in game turns. I can't find data anywhere that specifically states how large in manpower a unit is. If you know where access to this information I'd like to see it. I find it hard to believe that a carrier or battleship unit represent a division of each.

As technology progresses you need less materials and manpower to accomplish the end goal. I don't think of a Modern Armor unit as an entire division but more like a company (12-16) of tanks. It's much easier to accept it in these in terms of production and mobility. Another thing to keep in mind is that a division has many more support personnel accompanying it than just combat units.

I can also think of many other reasons for a ROP with Turkey other than an armored invasion.

First, NATO has air force bases there and it would have been much easier to launch air strikes from the land than a carrier task force in the Med or the Gulf.

Secondly, I'm not aware of an armored division being stationed in Turkey. Please provide me with data to prove this if I'm wrong.

Thirdly, the armor would have almost as far to go to get to Turkey as it did to get to Kuwait.

It wasn't because we lack the capability to airlift tanks. I'm pretty confident that if the need arises, the USA can airlift a brigade or division to anywhere in the world in a week whether or not it includes M1A1 tanks. That is well within the timeframe of one turn and the spirit of the game.

 

[EL_OSO]

Originally posted by Jaybe
No, the C-5 does not transport battalions of M-1 tanks overseas with any frequency (perhaps they took ONE to Saudi Arabia for Desert Shield in 1990-91). The vast majority of tanks are shipped by ... SHIP. Prepositioned stockpiles are often used, but the logistical delays caused by mobilizing shipping and getting them where they need to be makes for long build-ups.

Can a transport ship move from lets say San Francisco or Washington DC in one turn? (2 years in game time). I think most of us would be screaming if a ship could move that fast in game turns.

I have yet to figure out how to do this without the ship hopping glitch.

Why do you insist on using WW2 logistical tactics in the modern era?

What you're saying here is that the USA doens't have the capability in this day and age to project its power quickly via air and I couldn't disagree with you more on this.

 

[Aeon221]

I will provide you with the data you requested when I get back from sports if it is really necessary. If you were keeping up with current events a couple of years ago, you would remember the large aid package being offered to Turkey to allow certain divisions of the US Army to be allowed to land there and from there invade Iraq.

They refused, forcing us to concentrate on a single front.

And yes, I am well aware of the air bases, etc. in Turkey. I find it essential to keep up with such data with the career I am planning. However, since the argument was about MA airlift, it is clear that such information is entirely irrelevant.

Keep the MA Airlift, unless someone decides to make a realistic naval unit movement system...

I agree that that me simply not putting Korea (oops, had America before) into a game is an option, and that the stealing of land happens with a lot of other civs. You will recall that there are measures being taken to prevent that (in fact, I feel that I am correct in saying that this mod was in part an attempt to combat such unrealistic development).

The complaint about Korea is that it prevents other civs from properly developing, and that leaving it in results in a massive hole in South East Asia.

I will hunt around for some quality leaderheads etc, and if they are not available I will start working on a city and leader list for myself. I LIKE playing as Korea, but it engages in entirely unreasonable activity.

There needs to be a way to add triggers so that you can make things (like the American Revolution) happen. And yes, I know that this comment is cliche. That does not make it any less relevant.

More whining later!

 

[nighthidesnot]

I need some assistance...I loaded and unzipped both files, but I keep getting the error message: Missing entry in Text/PediaIcons.txt: ICON_BLDG_Holy_War. The entry exists in the text message, so I don't know what went wrong.

 

[EL_OSO]

Originally posted by Aeon221
I will provide you with the data you requested when I get back from sports if it is really necessary. If you were keeping up with current events a couple of years ago, you would remember the large aid package being offered to Turkey to allow certain divisions of the US Army to be allowed to land there and from there invade Iraq.

They refused, forcing us to concentrate on a single front.

And yes, I am well aware of the air bases, etc. in Turkey. I find it essential to keep up with such data with the career I am planning. However, since the argument was about MA airlift, it is clear that such information is entirely irrelevant.

I don't want you to waste your time gathering data since you missed my point. I'm fully aware of the events that have taken place in my lifetime (thanks for the unnecessary slam).

My point was countering your first statement indicating the sole reason for achieving a ROP with Turkey was because it is not within the capability of the USA to use the USAF to transport MA. I may have misunderstood you there because I was assuming that you meant we already had a division of MA in Turkey. From these last statements its obvious that wasn't your first point but then why did you bring it up in the first place? (The MA still has to get there somehow)

The data that is really necessary is something from Firaxis indicating unit size since that seems to be our main issue here. How many ships does a carrier represent? I would assume one carrier or battleship. Cruisers maybe a couple ships as well as destroyers and transports. I would assume using the above formula that a plane unit represents roughly 15 planes being that a carrier can carry approximately 60 of them. I just apply this same sense of scale to other units like MA. There isn't any logic to think of one MA unit of being 300 + tanks. Even with that logic applied, its not unrealistic for ONE transport aircraft to ferry them to an airbase on the other side of the world in a one or two year time span. Don't forget the time scale while you're air dropping units. We're not talking a month here but 24 of them which is ample time.

 

[Aeon221]

I see the real problem here!

I am overreacting!

SORRY!!

I have always thought of units as divisions simply because it makes more sense in my head. For me, it is a carrier group, and the number of planes is correspondingly large. That is how I mentally deal with the hit point bar. You have obviously rationalized it in a different way.

Either way, it does not matter as we both want the airlift in! ;p

@NHS:

Did you unzip it to the Conquests Scenario folder?

Did you download and install the patch?

Rhye the all knowing, for whose attention we vie, will know the real problem, but those are the standard questions!

 

[jalapeno_dude]

Originally posted by Rhye
Adding a Nuclear Bomb as a bonus created with Manhattan P. can't be done: I thought of setting a 100 turns period in the editor so that it would create only once, but it seems that 100 turns are waited before building. And if I make 1 turn, it will obviously build a bomb every turn. So, is the A-bomb addition as a unit available for anyone necessary?

Could you make the Manhattan Project obselete with a required 4-turn tech that leads to all other techs, then give it a 3-turn production time?

 

[Rhye]

I can try, but will it be possible to build t. nukes and ICBMs after it becomes obsolete?

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by nighthidesnot
I need some assistance...I loaded and unzipped both files, but I keep getting the error message: Missing entry in Text/PediaIcons.txt: ICON_BLDG_Holy_War. The entry exists in the text message, so I don't know what went wrong.

- Does this happen when you start a new game or when you load somebody else's savegame?

- What version of Conquests are you using?

 

[Mr. Do]

Smart idea, although knowing the AI it would research or trade for the obseletion tech before it had built the Manhattan Project, rendering it useless. But it's something to think about...

 

[Eddiit]

Yeah that is a good idea.... and I love the bickering going on here....great arguments both for and against airlifting tanks. I do believe we have the capacity to airlift tanks in modern day but I wouldnt swear my life on it.

 

[Eddiit]

I guess putting an LM grassland would probably work....again, dont cripple them too much....they wont recover.

 

[EL_OSO]

Originally posted by Eddiit
Yeah that is a good idea.... and I love the bickering going on here....great arguments both for and against airlifting tanks. I do believe we have the capacity to airlift tanks in modern day but I wouldnt swear my life on it.

If I came across as bickering, I apologize.

I just have this unexplainable passion for this type of drastic gameplay change. I've looked for many answers to the number of C-5's in the US's arsenal but I think most of that information is classified. My reasoning is why else build an aircraft that large if it wasn't intended for practical use. I would imagine that we built at least 50 of them. They've been in service for quite some time.

Not many of us are privy to the information as to how we built up our forces for both Gulf Wars but I think its safe to assume that both the navy and airforce are used extensively for this purpose.

In the end each of us has access to the editor and can customize Rhye's hard work to our own liking.

 

[nighthidesnot]

Does this happen when you start a new game or when you load somebody else's savegame?

It happened each time I tried to start a new game.

- What version of Conquests are you using?

I think I'm playing version 1 of Conquests. I don't recall downloading any patches. Accordingly, I will download the patches through 1.22 to see if that fixes the problem.

 

[SpeedyKQ]

I've spent nearly every free minute for the last 2 and a half weeks playing RoC, and I've created this here account just so I could show my appreciation for what an outstanding mod this is. Great job, Rhye. Very well thought-out, balanced, and it was just unspeakably cool to play Civ on a real earth map with so many historical accuracies. I liked your general strategy of not being too heavy-handed with rules changes so that we still feel like we're playing civ and not some other game. The small tweak you made with the hussars, flintlock infantry, riflemen, and cavalry was very good - it kept cavalry for being too good for too long and made conquest somewhat harder. The 8 turn minimum for techs also made for a very different, but interesting, game experience.

So with all of my gushing out of the way, let me make a few small suggestions:

I think the Egyptian chariot UU should also ignore the desert movement penalty if all of the other arabian UU's do. It would help Egypt be a force in the very early game when they were historically most powerful.

The Hussar not upgrading to the Cavalry and having the same cost seems silly to me. They seem like two of the most similar units of the game. Maybe make cavalry cost 10 more so the upgrade isn't free?

With the 8 turn technology minimum, pop-rushing governments seem really undesirable, since you need something to do with all of your extra money. Throughout most of my game my science rate was so low that I was taking in 200+ gold per turn, and Communism would have looked good except that I'd have almost nothing to do with all that money, so I stayed with Monarchy the whole time. I'd suggest either changing Communism and Fascism to allow cash-rushing, or make two alternative governments, say Socialism and Police State, which you get at the same time as Communism and Fascism respectively, that allow cash-rushing.

I liked that you extended the modern era by putting the last spaceship piece with Robotics. The space race victory is too easy, and because of this the modern era is almost always too short. There is typically very little chance to play with modern combat. I'd suggest adding a new technology, say Space Colonization, that requires all of the end-of-the-line modern techs as prerequisites, which is required for construction of ALL the the spaceship parts. The building of a great big spaceship to colonize another galaxy is not something that is happening today, in modern times, but is rather something that could happen in the near future. This change would better reflect those realities. But I'd understand if it would change the game too much for the spirit of this mod.

My thoughts on the things you are looking for feedback on:

I like the idea of Guerrillas as weaker units that can move through jungles (and mountains?). This opens up new strategies and new decisions. I'm less excited about making them a special unit that helps keep the crippled civs alive. It seems that without any extra help, some crippled civs die and others eke out a meager existence, and that is as it should be.

As far as Manhattan Project and nukes and atom bombs, I've never really played with nukes so I don't have an opinion. The space race always comes, or I conquer the world with advanced tanks before this happens. I'm a regent/monarch player, maybe nukes are more important at higher levels?