Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Eddiit]

I think the guerillas going to weak civs really does stick to the spirit of the game...even in modern day weak nations have guys with guns that use guerilla tactics as their main strategy. On that note I put all my backing behind butching up the crippled civs so they can have a moderate impact. Having a guerialla that they can build will really really help keep them in the mix a little...but you dont have to worry, your tanks will still roll through them.

Youre right about the egytians...they do need more oomph in the ancient era.

 

[Aeon221]

Yay, glad to see people like at least one of my ideas!

;p

Also, China moves from a 4/3/3 Rider to a 5/3/2 Hussar, which is (IMHO) a worse unit. Perhaps China should get a 5/3/3 Rider that does not upgrade. Also a price tag increase would be a good idea for it too, but I do not know enough about it to make any concrete suggestion.

Although this would give China a big advantage in the EM section, you could just take Cavalry away from them too, leaving them with a weaker attacker than the other civs.

Rider should remain in its current place in the tech tree, because there is no real good reason to move it.

Also, I tried making scouts wheeled (to decrease the number of Europeans finding Asia), but was still discovered by a warrior in 110 AD (or maybe BC... cannot remember since it is 1650).

I also locked Korea into its peninsula with a few marshes; this causes it to ignore mainland Asia and concentrate on developing a colonial empire (thereby putting it into competition with Japan).

It also makes a landward invasion impossible for a non-human player (I waited till I had riders, then cut a road through the swamps with a 20+ stack... short fight ;p).

I do not know if you think this is a good thing or a bad, but I personally think it solves all of my issues (makes it so that China develops into a strong empire, Korea does not try to create a worthless Siberian empire, and Japan and Korea are enemies).

Only bad part was that Korea stockpiled settlers until it got Map Making, so it was not a very efficient builder. Once it got the tech, it was able to rapidly move out with a galley fleet and establish a cute little empire that managed to defend itself rather well.

Mongolia is badly off at the start. I assume that Rhye knows this, and that it was on purpose, but the terrain is really ugly and Mongolia never managed to field much of an army. Also, there is this one square inside a ring of mountains that the computer decided to put a city in. I had to circle the whole stupid thing to find the entrance. Perhaps a few more holes could be put into it?

France conquered all of Europe, and would have gotten Russia had I not decided to step into it. As it was, I distracted them long enough for Russia to pull out of it.

Anyone who manages to get all of Europe is insanely strong! That territory is amazing!

 

[Eddiit]

Yes....Europe is supposed to be strong...France actually conquered it? That's definetly a first...they usually get trounced by germany.... good idea with china and with Korea...I like it...Rhye should try it.

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
I've spent nearly every free minute for the last 2 and a half weeks playing RoC, and I've created this here account just so I could show my appreciation for what an outstanding mod this is.

Thank you. Vote please!

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
I think the Egyptian chariot UU should also ignore the desert movement penalty if all of the other arabian UU's do. It would help Egypt be a force in the very early game when they were historically most powerful.

Right. It's done for next patch

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
The Hussar not upgrading to the Cavalry and having the same cost seems silly to me. They seem like two of the most similar units of the game. Maybe make cavalry cost 10 more so the upgrade isn't free?

Free upgrade? Hussars shouldn't upgrade to Cavalry, because they're a different kind of cavalry (light). Then, raising the cost of Cavalry would mean raising its attack and Cossacks attack. But in that case Sipahi becomes useless. So, it's a very difficult matter.

Originally posted by SpeedyKQ
I liked that you extended the modern era by putting the last spaceship piece with Robotics.?

? I didn't change anything from the standard settings here

 

[Rhye]

This is the situation of patch v2.2:
already done:
- Scouts and explorers now can be airlifted but can't pillage
- Scouts now have movement 1 to make globalization more slow. They still aren't wheeled, so they can cross mountains, jungles and marshes
- Shifta, Keshik, War Chariot and Ansar Warrior now ignore desert movement cost
- Modern paratroopers no longer need rubber
- Riflemen now require saltpeter
- Updated civilopedia and corrected some entries
- Reduced 'build never' penalties for some crippled civs
- Ocean movement costs 2; all units ignore its cost except galley and dromon
- Galley and dromon don't ignore sea movement cost anymore (otherwise they could cross the Bering strait)
- Some new terrain graphics: lighter rivers and less grey mountains
- SS Engine and Exterior casing cost 48
- Tuned max eruption period (24000 years)
- Tuned plagues earliest start and grace period
- "No barbarians" activity: camps shouldn't appear now
- Redistributed barbarian camps in South America. Now there are less around but in strategical position, in order to stop Incan expansion
- Removed some camps in North America, Vietnam and Congo
- Removed jungle tiles that obstructed passage in India, Congo, Peru and central America
- Removed a plateau tile that obstructed passage in Mongolia
- Tuned Carthaginian, Russian and Zulu strength
- Added coal and gold in Japan
- America, France, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, England, Russia, Spain and Portugal have been made weaker in Ancient and Medieval age: thanks to a hidden resource they will reach their full strength beginning from the Renaissance
- Removed a horse and some oasis in Arabia, substituted with an invisible +1 commerce, +1 food resource
- Added an invisible +1 commerce resource next to Egypt, China, Japan, Korea, Byzantium, Carthage, Russia and Netherlands
- Currency cost decreased to 14; Monarchy cost decreased to 12

to do:
New irrigations graphics
Radio removed to follow Conquests last patch changes
Some resources will appear later in the game (dyes/horses/tobacco): for example horses will appear in America during Industrial age while they are available from the beginning in the rest of the world
Swap internally Fission and Rocketry (no effect in the tech tree: the only effect is that AI researches Fission first and the Manhattan Project comes earlier the game)
Add a Nuclear Bomb unit available with Fission or Manhattan Project?
Block Korean passage to mainland?
Guerrilla to be modified?





When there is no more need of patches, I'll consider adding a Khmer or Songhai civ with a separate patch. This means that I could do a patch to download separately for who wants a biq and the files with the new civ.
This is only a thought, don't take this as a promise!!!!

 

[Jaybe]

Rhye, you are making too much progress TOO FAST! I am only half-way through my game (turnwise). I would like to finish it before you put out another version.

Silly thought: Make tobacco a luxury (so there would be 9 of them). Having more than 8 lux has no additional affect on a civ, but it would give the american civs something to do (and even export, perhaps). I have considered it before, but never seriously enough to implement it.

 

[Eddiit]

I think you should try the idea of blocking korea into the mainland and see how that goes.

Yes on the guerilla.

 

[Aeon221]

Also, China moves from a 4/3/3 Rider to a 5/3/2 Hussar, which is (IMHO) a worse unit. Perhaps China should get a 5/3/3 Rider that does not upgrade. Also a price tag increase would be a good idea for it too, but I do not know enough about it to make any concrete suggestion.

Although this would give China a big advantage in the EM section, you could just take Cavalry away from them too, leaving them with a weaker attacker than the other civs.

Rider should remain in its current place in the tech tree, because there is no real good reason to move it.

Just a repeat, as no one has noticed it yet ;p

 

[Rhye]

I may move the upgrade path for knights and similar to cavalry instead of hussar.
It makes sense because in this way heavy cavalry would upgrade to another heavy cavalry. But it will cause having both Hussars and Knights around

 

[Aeon221]

That is ok, because the time period is really close for them.

Poland had Hussars in the late 16th, and Knights really started to go out of fashion around then. The Hussar does predate the Cavalry used in Civ, so it is probably a good thing that Knights and Hussars co-exist.

***

I had a brainstorm yesterday, but wanted it to sit for a bit.

What if:

-Settlers were made slightly less expensive (either pop or shield) for certain Civs famous for having large empires (Russia, China, England, America, Dutch, France, Spain, Portugal) through settlement, and more expensive for other civs famous for having gained theirs by conquest (Germany, France, Mongols, Turks, Romans). Only problem is that the continentals will simply use this to expand into Siberia... unless... It is made impossible to travel into Siberia! Not travel while in it, only into it, especially for a European Civ. The only road through the Urals (one of the most difficult to cross mountain ranges in the world) would have to be preplaced, and near Moscow (IE: inside its cultural expansion range) to allow the Russians to create a Siberian Empire.

-Tundra were to become impassable terrain! Its not like its worth anything, and it causes the Artificial Idiots to go on megacrusades of worthlessness!

-Some of the desert tileswere to become impassable without roads as well, simply to make them even more formidable barriers (I personally would put a rule of thumb for deep desert as any desert tile that is two tiles removed from a productive tile). It is simply ridiculous that SoD can cross the Gobi Desert without any effort OR roads.

Also, I love using the fact that I am human to take advantage of the computer. I cut a road through the Himalayas and rushed the Indians from the rear with three cav armies and a 20+stack of Riders. Even better than the Korean War! ;p

 

[Aeon221]

One last blurb:

The Dutch should also be cut off from the mainland (Ardennes could become impassable, and perhaps a few marshland tiles since it IS the Lowlands). This will cause them to be more active in the colonial world, and perhaps will even foster some very nice competition with England.

Cannot be done legitimately with the terrain options as they are, but at least I tried ;p

Also, I believe it is possible to prevent naval unit across certain squares by making those squares impassable to wheeled units, and then giving the wheeled characteristics to sea units you do not want to cross them. Not sure where I heard that, but I am pretty sure it works. May be a better idea than the movement one in keeping certain naval units out of the Bering and other sensitive areas.

This impassable terrain idea of yours is absolutely revolutionary Rhye! It makes all KINDS of things possible!

I finally voted, and admitted the truth. I will NEVER go back to Civ3Conquests, as it would be so bad without this mod! I tried playing some of my old games, and was just depressed with how bad it was after the excellence of this mod!

That is why I am constantly trying to help make it work even more perfectly!

 

[Aeon221]

-Move Scandinavian Capital to Baltic Coast from North Sea Coast?

-Remove Sumeria to reduce M-E burnout?

-Deserts impassable to wheeled?

-Tundra impassable to wheeled?

-Block Korea from mainland?

-Edit Guerrillas to 8/8/2 not wheeled, available to all crip civs (perhaps making it unavailable if human player... not sure if that is possible...)

-Make Urals difficult/impossible for anyone to cross w/o roads?

-Edit Chinese Rider to 5/3/3 75 shields, no upgrade?

-Remove Cav from China?

-Edit Hussar so that it is not a weaker Cavalry with the same
cost?

Figured I should bullet for easier read.

I retract my earlier statements about the Iroquoi. On the whole they are well balanced for the area. They managed to out-settle the Americans, so it looks pretty ridiculous.

I am going to start a new game as Russia to check out how the possible changes above would affect things!

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Move Scandinavian Capital to Baltic Coast from North Sea Coast?

Trondheim is where I've put it

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Remove Sumeria to reduce M-E burnout?

When the mod no longer needs patches, if I have time I'll make an optional download that removes Sumeria and includes a new civ.

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Deserts impassable to wheeled?

-Tundra impassable to wheeled?

I'm not sure how it would work. I fear that it would cause sending workers in exploration and nasty tricks like hiding workers where the enemy can't reach.
Well, forbidding desert may be realistic and make communications more difficult between far east and Europe. But have you considered the damage caused to Arabia, Carthage and Mongolia?

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Block Korea from mainland?

I still have to try this: I'll let you know. I won't do with Netherlands, as they're quite closed and I can't go inventing new mountains o marshes

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Edit Guerrillas to 8/8/2 not wheeled, available to all crip civs (perhaps making it unavailable if human player... not sure if that is possible...)

The problem here is that none of the crippled civs will ever reach Repleaceable parts. The matter isn't simple.

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Make Urals difficult/impossible for anyone to cross w/o roads?

They would pass under, near the Caspius

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Tundra were to become impassable terrain! Its not like its worth anything, and it causes the Artificial Idiots to go on megacrusades of worthlessness!

Megacrusades versus what? Are you refering to barbarian camps? In that case, I hope that with "no barbarians", no camps will be created there

Originally posted by Aeon221
-Edit Chinese Rider to 5/3/3 75 shields, no upgrade?
-Remove Cav from China?
-Edit Hussar so that it is not a weaker Cavalry with the same
cost?

I think that the change to the upgrade path will work pretty well.

Originally posted by Aeon221
I retract my earlier statements about the Iroquoi.

I only removed their most close barbarian camp

Originally posted by Aeon221
I am going to start a new game as Russia to check out how the possible changes above would affect things!

Russia is quite weak. I've made it stronger in next patch

Originally posted by Aeon221
May be a better idea than the movement one in keeping certain naval units out of the Bering and other sensitive areas.

Unfortunately you can't set impassable only the LM terrain: if you set LM sea impassable you must set sea, too. So it can't be done. But instead you can change the movement cost for LM to be different from standard. And in fact the Bering strait works in this way: galleys will sink

Originally posted by Aeon221
Settlers were made slightly less expensive

No, that would slow down the game a lot. And you would see cities coming out like mushrooms. In a 170x170 world, mostly with forbidden-founding areas, you must consider not to populate it entirely at the beginning

 

[Eddiit]

Hmmm...I honestly dont want sumeria removed...... but thats just me.

 

[Rhye]

Originally posted by Rhye
When the mod no longer needs patches, if I have time I'll make an optional download that removes Sumeria and includes a new civ.

 

[Aeon221]

I know, I keep putting that one out there because I sincerely believe that it should be done. Four capitals sharing squares is a bit ridiculous. Again, I get the point! ;p

In the games I have played so far, damage to Arabia and Carthage is minimal to none. I thought of that right away, seeing as they are heavily desert. Both were protected and built up a few nice cities, and then began a massive colonial program as soon as they got mapmaking

Mongolia is screwed from the start anyway, but I will look into it.

Russia is superweak! I was unable to get a decent start with them (overrun by AI settlers and in a war that would likely have gone badly before I got my fourth city down). Glad to hear that they are stronger now. However, the changes to the Urals had the immediate effect of preventing all AI incursions to Siberia. I have a feeling that a less agressive AI (who gets better deals from his friends, the other AI) will do better than I did with the Russians as they are, simply because the AI will not freak out when cities are blooped into land that it has claimed.

Also, you could make an optional tech that is basically unresearchable for non-crip civs and put Guerrillas there. You could even call it Guerrilla Warfare!

Noticed that the French (and other expansionist groups in Europe) typically get a mega-bonus from the goody huts liberally scattered in the area. Perhaps taking away the expansionist trait from a few of them might be a good idea in the interest of preventing the free settlers that the French seem to be getting with alarming regularity.

 

[Eddiit]

Yeah I like the Guerilla Warfare tech idea. Only crippled civs will get the chance to research it.

 

[Aeon221]

Question: Has anyone else seen the Portugese using the Dutch UU?

 

[Rhye]

1-> How do you make a tech only reseachable by someone? Are you sure that this can be done?

2-> Korea is very weak with closed passage. I'll try again with a little better starting location and "build often" naval units checked

3-> A question: 1) have you ever seen AI using nukes? 2) does ever AI begin a nuclear war?

Originally posted by Aeon221
Question: Has anyone else seen the Portugese using the Dutch UU?

No. Is it a bug?

 

[Aeon221]

Might be...

I will check the editor again to be sure... it could just be something i fudged with!

Also, is ethiopia supposed to be unable to build any units? Or perhaps that is also something I accidentally messed up... Anyway, it seems like some strange things may have happened to my version... regardless

I have started playing the game in debug as the Zulu so as to better understand the things happening, which is how I caught most of these little anomalies.