Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

[Rhye]

2. I think it would be better for the tech to be the different polytheisms... Think of it as branching out of Polytheism from a general vagueness to culture-specific sets of gods and beliefs.

If you see in the civilopedia or in the editor you'll find for example "greek polytheism" hidden, that allows "greek mythology" after mysticism. However I could rename both as "greek polytheism".

Any feedback on the 0.34?

 

[Blasphemous]

If you see in the civilopedia or in the editor you'll find for example "greek polytheism" hidden, that allows "greek mythology" after mysticism. However I could rename both as "greek polytheism".

That would be good.
Won't be able to start playtesting before thursday.

 

[Aeon221]

I am playing a game in between typing and being violently sick. I have to produce a five page paper for tomorrow (wrote a four pager yesterday) and am not feeling well at all.

which begs the question... why the hell am i playing civ?

because ;p

playing as britain, just started, its pretty quiet. Should I play as America instead? I was looking for a quiet peaceful game this time (I even turned on Diplomatic victory, first time in forever I have allowed a non-military victory ;p).

Might be a bit slow, but whatever

 

[Jaguar]

Pretty fricken complicated dudes. I say take out the harbor from trading company, and make it give a courthouse type corruption reducer in every city.

This is a good idea.

 

[Jaguar]

I have a fairly interesting save for you. Some unusual stuff is going on. I'm not sure whether this game is an exception, or whether the AI civs just like to conquer each other more in the XP.


France eliminated the Dutch, and Portugal took a Roman city!

Also, the Greeks are building a road on my horses, which I don't understand.

WARNING: If you aren't an XP tester, this save isn't meant for you. It will crash your computer.

 

[karmina]

(Reformation...)Thanks. It's surely worth a wonder, but I'm forced not to include it because of the way religions work.

Why?
Reformation had a much bigger impact on Germany than for example Enlightenment or any famous Cathedral (not to speak of resulting political changes). As a civ wonder, it should not only make people happy, but also provide a significant scientifc boost - Martin Luther was the first one to translate the Bible into German, while Catholics continued to say their Masses in Latin.
On the other hand, it might become a new tech allowing you to build cheap cathedrals or cheap universities or early hospitals.

Oh, and of course there aren't human sacrifices in Judaism. Actually Judaism should get a moral bonus in the ancient age for being the very first religion to ban human sacrifices.

Now to something strange I experienced in a 2.62 game (Spain, Emporer):
While France had been my main trading partner and certainly the second most powerful civ, Israel managed to keep up with technology although they only had THREE cities. In fact they obviously had a research rate of five turns in the Industrial era, being way ahead of every neighbor, and even ahead of the othe big civs France, England and Greece. What makes it even more strange, after the discovery of Electricity they still lacked communications with about half the world!

 

[Rhye]

Why?

Because there's one place for the religious tech, shared by the religions. For example any Muslim civ (Arabs, Ottomans,...) will have another tech in that place: Islam.
If I add another Christian tech in late Middle Ages, then I'd be forced to add another late Middle Ages Muslim tech, Buddhist tech and Jewish tech.
And each one of that techs should allow something. I'd be forced to think of something to add.

And this would be even more unfair if you consider that ancient religions allow only 1 tech.

Now to something strange I experienced in a 2.62 game (Spain, Emporer):
While France had been my main trading partner and certainly the second most powerful civ, Israel managed to keep up with technology although they only had THREE cities. In fact they obviously had a research rate of five turns in the Industrial era, being way ahead of every neighbor, and even ahead of the othe big civs France, England and Greece. What makes it even more strange, after the discovery of Electricity they still lacked communications with about half the world!

I wouldn't know....maybe they had some wonders, or much money. However one of the goals that I was trying to reach with my basic mod was breaking the connection largest->most advanced that exists in civ3.
In real life there's lot of corruption and waste in large empires, while small countries (Holland, Switzerland for example) are good at commerce and ahead in the tech race.

 

[Metatr0n]

1. Fine, just thought it would be more appropriate for some religions to have altars instead of temples. And Judaism has never had human sacrifice, the ritual sacrifice in ancient times was of animals that were ritually cooked and eventually eaten by the holymen that ran the sacrifice.

My Jewish grandfather always told me that human sacrifice was practiced by some of the kingdoms of Israel BC, and that human sacrifice is not forbidden by the Talmud. I tried to do some research on this but just kept stumbling across right wing propaganda

EDIT: I just want to make it clear that I am not trying to be controversial in any way here - just suggesting it may not be too strange, in the context of the game, to allow the hebrews to carryout human sacrifice.

 

[Blasphemous]

My Jewish grandfather always told me that human sacrifice was practiced by some of the kingdoms of Israel BC, and that human sacrifice is not forbidden by the Talmud. I tried to do some research on this but just kept stumbling across right wing propaganda

EDIT: I just want to make it clear that I am not trying to be controversial in any way here - just suggesting it may not be too strange, in the context of the game, to allow the hebrews to carryout human sacrifice.

No idea where you grandfather got this idea... Human sacrifice is strictly non-Jewish. Judaism rose in its creation against the region's paganism and multiple gods and worship of statues and inanimate objects (and iirc, its ritual human sacrifice). Once the religion was fully formed I highly doubt there was any ritual human sacrifice carried out normally.

 

[Rhye]

Originally Posted by Aeon221
Pretty fricken complicated dudes. I say take out the harbor from trading company, and make it give a courthouse type corruption reducer in every city. .

I'm working on different possibilities. The basic thing I want is not to see again colonies with spearmen in 1800 only because the harbor hasn't been built.
Today I tried to enable a bit more sea and air trades, but the result was a huge change in game mechanisms.
If I don't reach anything good, I'll switch back to the original wonder (pays improv. cost)
If you have other suggestions, tell me.

 

[Rhye]

BTW,
now sacrifices are enabled only for Pagan, Mesos and Nordic.
Each tech allows sacrifices, and each religion of these 3 allow a wonder that puts a sacrificial altar in every city. It doubles the sacrifice points.

 

[Jaguar]

Sounds good.

 

[Asclepius]

Re: CivX .34

Republic Gov is available with Philosophy(? I think) and there is a missing splash screen entry for Moai statues in civpedia.txt which causes a CTD.

edit: also Hagia Sophia has no cost or effect.

 

[Aeon221]

BUG CONFIRM: Yes i noticed the same thing abt republic and philosophy. really weird.

RE: Israeli human sacrifices

no. not at all. go read the story about abraham and isaac. its pretty clear that they didnt do that at all.

IDEA: if you were to make it so that some units enslaved and it created an animal, or a triumph or something, and you could take it back to your cities and sacrifice or celebrate it for culture, that would be pretty cool. in fact, you should make it so land based UUs can enslave something called a triumph, or major victory or something, which can be "sacrificed" for culture. every time a major victory occurs, there is always partying in the real world, so why not represent it here.

of course, this could all be just a really stupid idea, but the health center has me on so much medication im surprised i can type.

BUG: also, civilopedia seems to have to entries for spearmen, one the usu 1.2.1 and one the new 2.2.1

this seems like an issue.

 

[Metatr0n]

No idea where you grandfather got this idea... Human sacrifice is strictly non-Jewish. Judaism rose in its creation against the region's paganism and multiple gods and worship of statues and inanimate objects (and iirc, its ritual human sacrifice). Once the religion was fully formed I highly doubt there was any ritual human sacrifice carried out normally.

He's dead now so alas I can't ask him, which is a pity as he was an archaeologist in the middle-east. I think the sacrifice he referred to was not strictly sanctioned as part of judaism, but was practiced occasionally - in times of crisis, by some misguided ancient hebrews.

The encyclopeadia brittanica says

"Hebrews: This member of the Semitic family was no less prone than the rest to human sacrifices...."

and the Harper's Bible Dictionary says

"Human sacrifice was exceptional among the ancient Hebrews, although we still read, 'The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me' (Ex. 22:29, cb. 13:2). The Israelites very early substituted, like Abraham (Gen. 22:13), an animal sacrifice to 'redeem' the first born (Exod. 13:13-15, 34:20; Numb. 18-15). Nevertheless, in a desperate crisis, the first-born was sacrificed as the supreme gift to the deity... The immolation of Jephthah's daughter (Judg 11:30-40) is the result of a vow made to the deity to obtain victory. Prisoners of war were occasionally sacrificed either for blood revenge (Judge 8:18-21) or as part of the ban (1Sam 15:33). Both these barbaric ancient rites were regarded as sacrifices to the deity ...."

But I suppose as Judaism always officially stood against such practices it makes sense to leave things as Rhye has now set them.

Human sacrifice should also be enabled for Hinduism as they practiced it right through to the days of the British Raj, whilst it was very limited in nature a group called the Thuggies (from where we derive the word thug) who were devotees of Khali were known to kidnap and sacrifice travellers.

 

[Metatr0n]

IDEA: if you were to make it so that some units enslaved and it created an animal, or a triumph or something, and you could take it back to your cities and sacrifice or celebrate it for culture,

This seems like a good idea, and makes it available to everyone - it could be called spoils of war or some such

 

[Rhye]

Thanks, I just corrected the things you mentioned. In addition to this, current version (0.37) contains some wonders refinement, some new wonder (and some wonders deleted), and Silver bonus resource.

The main problem for now remains the Trading Company.

 

[Jaguar]

Bug: The French start with Nordic Mythologies tech, which allows them to start on the Wonders allowed by it before everyone else. It looks unintentional, because they don't even have the prerequisite.

BTW, should England maybe have the Nordic mythology set instead of the regular Pagan? Then they could build Stonehenge, which would be accurate, and it also would reflect the Scandinavian influence on England. (The first major known piece of English Literature is Beowulf, a story about Danes and Swedes.) England was Nordic/Celtic culture until 1066, when the Normans invaded and brought a more West European culture in.

 

[Rhye]

Didn't I set English as nordic? damn...
Thanks.

 

[Khift]

IDEA: if you were to make it so that some units enslaved and it created an animal, or a triumph or something, and you could take it back to your cities and sacrifice or celebrate it for culture, that would be pretty cool. in fact, you should make it so land based UUs can enslave something called a triumph, or major victory or something, which can be "sacrificed" for culture. every time a major victory occurs, there is always partying in the real world, so why not represent it here.

I really like this idea. I like it enough to advocate the abandonment of the current sacrifice system.

I wonder if you can change the percent chance of an enslave. If so, then allowing these "Triumphs" to be sacrificied in a Palace city would be extremely awesome.