RifE 1.20 Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[Darksaber1]

It's just Orbis. Although something like it in FFPlus would be apriciated.

 

[Valkrionn]

I would actually say that it'd be pretty boring to have each religion have the same type of things it offers. I want them to have the same QUALITY of things they offer though personally.

If I like to play with a super-unit, I want one religion to offer just that, a HUGE SUPER UNIT (preferably one not too impossible to make, like a RoK unit requiring a high AC...). For that I am willing to give up a lot of other fancy things.

If I like all my units to be stronger and better, I want one religion to offer some unique promotions which can enhance my entire army.

If I like to be globally enhanced without having to work at it, I want one religion to offer some kind of a civic or wonder which enhances my empire without me lifting a finger or worrying about it ever again.



Things along those lines. Each religion offering to make my life FAR better in one aspect or another. Then I can mold the game to suit my tastes. For instance, with Kael's religions I ALWAYS GO ROK. This is because I kind of suck at producing sufficient monetary income in my empire, and the Temples help with that a lot. Plus I flat out do not care about culture, as long as I get my first ring expansion so I can work all of the tiles. And the fact I can snag Iron without having to hope it is on my continent (or even on the map at all) is a nice bonus which I would not mind seeing on a different religion (and offering more bonuses as well...) so that I had to decide between the two of them.


Actually having a series of unique buildings which offer critical resources might be a nice bonus for Esus, which is fairly fitting to them. Want Reagents? Follow Esus and we will share some of ours. Want Mithril? Esus's arms are wide open and waiting...

I agree with you here, which is why I haven't messed with them yet. The only two religions I'm really unhappy with are Empy and Esus... Empy is too warlike, and Esus is too useless. Although I usually end up RoK too.

My earlier suggestion of a unique terrain type was supposed to accomplish pretty much exactly this. Non-elves can terraform for decent tiles, elves can leave the underlying terrain be and build things in the trees. I suggested terrain instead of an improvement for three reasons:
1 - More foresty graphics, as there is nothing to push the trees out of the way
2 - Makes it clear that elves are still doing something quite different
3 - Protects against pillaging.
I agree. I think each religion should have a temple and a disciple line (which is a big part of why I'm pushing for Esus as a corporation), but beyond that anything goes. Technologies are nice, because they give a benefit for having followed the religion for a while even if you leave it later, but they're not necessary.

I don't like that set up, because of #3. Too powerful.

FOL: If we go with my improvement revamp you'll be able to build camps on any forest tile. +1 food and a chance to spawn a bonus makes FOL MUCH more attractive for non-elves. Expanding the range of terrains allowed for yurts to include plains might also work...but that might be too strong.

Expanding Yurts to plains would be too powerful, but something like that, yes.

Can't you build forester's lodge in forests already..?

... or is it an Orbis feature? If so, then, well, hrm, that's why I never got why playing FoL with non-elves was annoying.

Orbis only atm.

 

[Pohlmann]

with the ff changelog being released i cant wait to see the ffplus changelog

i tried out 2 of my changes with astonishing results

i gave optics a +1 food bonus with fishing boats and gave shrimp bonusgold so that its at 9 gold (might be a bit too much )

i had a seastart with clam and some lakes inside (also increased their gold output by 1)

with clam and 3 lakes and gold ressource i had quite some research then and quickly built my new city next to 2 shrimp ressources which granted me 18 research then.

i quickly went for oo, then optics and then the shrimpcity was able grow and grow and still provide loads of gold.

finally an alternative to cottagespam. (i dont want to be that much dependant on cottages but there is hardly a way to avoid them)

with this change optics might be a viable choice.

without the urge to get ships there was no reason to go for optics to me before but now i love it (maybe optics wasnt even weak before ) but i just didnt realize it )

 

[Valkrionn]

My changelog will likely be small, with almost no work of my own.

Honestly, patch E will just be a compatibility patch, with Vermicious Knid's Jotnar changes.

Your changes sound good, but will probably be too much after I add Kelp.

 

[Valkrionn]

Here's a basic changelog for you... Posted in the Download thread as well.

Patch E: (Unreleased)

1. Compatible with FF 051
2. Vermicious' Jotnar changes (Following list is far from complete, from one of his posts in our group forum)
   1. Kindred Promotions (Woodkin(trolls), Seakin(trolls), Firekin, Frostkin, Stonekin, and Stormkin)
   2. The bonus production for mills was silly (Don Quixote/Jack in the Beanstalk nod?). It is gone. I have farms, plantations, and pastures giving +1 commerce right now...not sure that is needed if we go with my improvement changes.
   3. No cap on city size. Was arbitrary. No real need for it balance-wise.
   4. No link to AC for spawn rate. Too limiting for evil Jotnar.
   5. Palace mana Mind, Creation, and Law. Spirit is pretty useless for them. Life is also a possibility to replace Mind.
   6. Unique monument. Gives +1 gold and +1 culture. Spawns a Jot Adult when built.
   7. Unique barracks. Gives +1 happy, 10% commerce bonus. Requires code of laws. Allows them to build Thrall Axeman (replacing orc conscripts)
   8. Staeding gives +1 food to water tiles. Encourages coastal starts.
   9. Changed flavourstart to weight coastal start, riverside, hills.
   10. Traditions civic loses number of cities maintenance bonus entirely. Gives 25% enslave chance.
   11. Archery techs, Poisons unblocked. Mounted line techs blocked.
   12. Changed starting techs to Traditions, Agriculture, Exploration. Not entirely sure they need 3 to be viable. If we decide to drop one I'd dump Agriculture.
3. Honor's Arcane Mastery mod merged in.
4. Minor Leaders trimmed down.
5. Bug fixes

 

[Historical_pers]

i don't know if this is the time or place to mention this, but I had a few ideas that I think would really be cool, but I have no clue how to make these work....

Corporations - Parasitic Civs
- a start-up option that allows this
- at every corporation founding, an event occurs that allows you to take control of the corporation (I'm thinking something like the mercurians, you'll understand in a moment)
- the corporation is a "shadow city" that skims up to 50% production and commerce from the city, this can be increased to 75% by building a "favored site" terrain improvement and boosting the base production, commerce, and food of the city plot built on it by 2
- i'm thinking that the % stolen should be linked to how long the corp has been in the city
- each corp should be completely different from the others, some would improve their cities through buildings, some improve empires with the corp's own troops, others with resources the civ could get no other way
- diplomacy should also be limited to those civs that the corp has expanded into, and the corp should be able to expand itself
- if you choose not to control this corp, maybe it should act normally, and a lot more corps should be added, like an arcane group (werewolf creaters?), Stewards of inequality (troops with super bounty hunter, +20 gold and a slave 25%of the time?), and a mercinary group like the guild of nine?

Any nibbles?

 

[Tholal]

Fort culture expansion needs to be available at lower levels. Having it be reliant on the for commander reaching level 5 basically means that it will never happen via the passive experience gain.

 

[Valkrionn]

They're getting promotions giving free xp, so it'll work fine.

 

[carnivore]

I think that those little dwarfs need some tweeking, because they have a deadly combination of strong offense (with very strong siege weapons) and defense with hill bonus and other defensive units like rifleman.
I am playing with the bannor (difficulty set on immortal) and this guys are unstopable ! they unleash a deadly trebouche attack and than a horde of assasins finish the job...
I admit that i am very happy to play against a smart AI but still, i think that some work should be done here, every time i chose to add them to my game they manage to build a huge empire and to dominate the game

 

[carnivore]

Hi
A question
Is there a simple way to modify the strength of the blight spell ?
The spell keeps killing my paladins and i really wish to keeps them alive

thanx

 

[Pohlmann]

new idea:

prob: lack of complete centralism-civ

solution:

capital as only city that can create culture. 10-12 rings culture of capitol. other cities can work fields the capitol grants culture to.

so if u place a city 25 fields away from your capital it wont have a culture radius and cant work anything.

this leads to a completely centralized realm

anybody got some use for this?

also the sidar specialist buffs could need some balance. atm engineers are too strong with 50% bonus while merchants only get 25% for example or artists also 25%

 

[carnivore]

Well, after some tests, it seems like when the AC reach 30 my paladins just disappear even when blight spell is removed from the game

Is there a way to change it ? i wish to keep this units alive...

Thanx

 

[Valkrionn]

I think that those little dwarfs need some tweeking, because they have a deadly combination of strong offense (with very strong siege weapons) and defense with hill bonus and other defensive units like rifleman.
I am playing with the bannor (difficulty set on immortal) and this guys are unstopable ! they unleash a deadly trebouche attack and than a horde of assasins finish the job...
I admit that i am very happy to play against a smart AI but still, i think that some work should be done here, every time i chose to add them to my game they manage to build a huge empire and to dominate the game

Hmm... I think this may be the first post I've gotten about the Khazad being OP. What difficulty were you on? I normally don't see them do too well, because the AI doesn't save money for the vaults well. Something I'm going to work on... Which will make them even stronger.

new idea:

prob: lack of complete centralism-civ

solution:

capital as only city that can create culture. 10-12 rings culture of capitol. other cities can work fields the capitol grants culture to.

so if u place a city 25 fields away from your capital it wont have a culture radius and cant work anything.

this leads to a completely centralized realm

anybody got some use for this?

also the sidar specialist buffs could need some balance. atm engineers are too strong with 50% bonus while merchants only get 25% for example or artists also 25%

Hmm... I don't know about that, honestly. I'm thinking of doing something less extreme for Kane, though.

I'll look at the Sidar bonuses... I honestly never play them though, so I wouldn't know what to set it at.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

new idea:

prob: lack of complete centralism-civ

solution:

capital as only city that can create culture. 10-12 rings culture of capitol. other cities can work fields the capitol grants culture to.

so if u place a city 25 fields away from your capital it wont have a culture radius and cant work anything.

this leads to a completely centralized realm

anybody got some use for this?

A civ like this could be neat. What would be really interesting is if they could settle outside their cultural border...but when they did that city immediately became an independent colony. Could represent a hive-mind that splits when the hive grows too large.

 

[carnivore]

No , you can't make them MORE stronger ! they will be even more unstoppable !
The level of difficulty is One before deity, so it's pretty hard, but even on lower levels they seem to be powerful. maybe some tweaking with siege weapon ? limit the number of siege weapon ? reduce power ? something must be done !

 

[Opera]

I never saw them that powerful either...
Although I saw them quite powerful in my recent games (Orbis' LE), certainly because of the +100 gold I give them from the start. By the way, Valk, how do you intend to tweak them? I though of changing their needed gold if played by the AI, like reducing it by 50%. I guess adding money saving AI in the DLL would be better but I frankly don't know where to look at.

 

[Valkrionn]

Honestly, all I intend to do is make them save money, like a Human player. I don't like giving the AI advantages...

Hopefully, this is semi-coherent. I can't even walk atm haha. . .. .. .. .ing Triple Sec... I can't see 5 feet in front of me haha. This is amazing. Drunk people FTW!!!

 

[xienwolf]

To make them conserve gold you need to modify CvPlayerAI::AI_goldTarget() most likely. I've been trying to think of a decent approach for it, I'd create a tag for the CivilizationInfos.xml which indicates the need to save more gold, but haven't convinced myself yet that it is the best way to approach it (how many Civs are going to want a supply of gold based on number of cities?).

 

[Opera]

Yeah, I thought that too but it didn't seem worth the effort. I heard Sephi has done some work on the Khazad with his Wild Mana FFH2 mod but maybe it just check for the civilization type being Khazad.

 

[Valkrionn]

Pretty sure it just checks for the Khazad... Which may be how I do it too, as the only other civ that really needs to save gold is the Jotnar, and they use it differently enough that you'd basically have to write two different functions.