RifE 1.20 Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[Pohlmann]

the slavertrait: it's nice to have some slaves but isnt this sort of weak? u got loads of useless costly units who hardly do anything at a time when u usually have more than enough workers. i think their should be a slavemarket where u can sell those slaves so it would fit the khazad theme (instead of metals->money u have bodies->money)

and pls change the animal ai so that they prefer leaving your culture instead of killing your workers. auto-route workers always suicide into these animals.

and the goblin hero should better be strong, like an ogre or something where those cunning goblins gather round and seek protection from.

also one raider hero or two via events. a troop of wolf riders pillaging your lands lead by a wolf with high withdrawal -> hard to get rid of

 

[jomaforum]

1 About the background of the Legion of D'Tesh, i don't understand how function their slavery system. I suppose the slaves are undead, but are they zombies, spirits, others thing?.

2 About the gameplay of the Legion of D'Tesh, i have a proposition. I don't know well how function the game mechanism and if the proposition if possible, but what do you think of the idea to abandon the fallow trait and give them this trait :

2.1 There is no health disorder in cities but the more there is population, the more there is unhappiness (like Scions when they have necropolis). The environnement has no effect (forest, jungle, flood plains etc.).

2.2 The health problems can only be caused by population (the jungle, flood plains, the forest and others things don't change the health).

2.3 Every D'tesh unit wich kill an ennemy unit bring "food" (the charnel enveloppe and the spirit material) to the nearer D'Tesh city. It need a D'Tesh influence zone at least at 10 cases from the ennemie unit who has been killed. 8 killed ennemies = 1 population growth. A chosen of D'Tesh need to kill 4 ennemies for 1 population growth. An council of D'Tesh need to kill 2 ennemies for 1 population growth.

2.4 Razing a town bring one population point per one population in the town (like now) but it need a D'Tesh influence zone at least at 10 cases. Watcher are able to build forts which create influence zone. The influence zone will receive the body and soul material and send it to the nearest D'Tesh town). This idea is here to prevent the D'Tesh to attack a long distance nations or wander recon units anywhere to gather on barbarians or animals. They sould build outside forts and defend them.

2.5 Other proposition : The recognition D'Tesh units has Silence of Death only in D'Tesh territory and neutral territory because this effect is overpowered.

2.6 The searing heat effect only work inside influence zone (to prevent from declaring war if you move a watcher in another nation's territory).

 

[Breez]

If we are to include Hobbits and Gnomes as resources, I would make them very, VERY rare. Probably on a Rarer-than-mithril level of rarity. Because I seriously doubt that little "Deported Mongrels" can survive the Age of Ice without getting eaten.

Also, Hell Terrain + Hobbits = Gollum/Smeagol.

I think some resources that are so rare there is only 1 or 2 in the world and may not even show up every game at all could be really neat.

the question the is: Is the effort to make them worth it?

 

[Valkrionn]

Can I request we steal... Ahem, borrow the Peaceful trait for the Elohim. It really promotes a builder style gameplay for the Elohim. I suspect it uses DLL modification though since new tags were used. I cannot do DLL changes yet, so I am requesting yay

I'll look at it... Planning on stealing a bit of her DLL work anyway.

If we are to include Hobbits and Gnomes as resources, I would make them very, VERY rare. Probably on a Rarer-than-mithril level of rarity. Because I seriously doubt that little "Deported Mongrels" can survive the Age of Ice without getting eaten.

Also, Hell Terrain + Hobbits = Gollum/Smeagol.

Hadn't thought about the Smeagol connection there...

Was thinking I could make this into a UF, providing one Hobbit resource. Then have the buildings it provides also provide a hobbit resource, to show them expanding into your civ... Mostly so you can trade them, of course.

the slavertrait: it's nice to have some slaves but isnt this sort of weak? u got loads of useless costly units who hardly do anything at a time when u usually have more than enough workers. i think their should be a slavemarket where u can sell those slaves so it would fit the khazad theme (instead of metals->money u have bodies->money)

and pls change the animal ai so that they prefer leaving your culture instead of killing your workers. auto-route workers always suicide into these animals.

and the goblin hero should better be strong, like an ogre or something where those cunning goblins gather round and seek protection from.

also one raider hero or two via events. a troop of wolf riders pillaging your lands lead by a wolf with high withdrawal -> hard to get rid of

Hmm... Never thought Slaver was weak. I guess it can be a bit weak later on though... I'll allow the Khazad a Slave Trade building, requires Evil, comes at... Currency or Mathematics. I'm thinking Mathematics, because then it's on the same line as their Trebuchets and Cannons... Not out of the way.

Animals won't come into your borders, unless you expand around them. I'm okay with it... Workers should be protected anyway, for the random Orcs/Demons.

I'd rather have the Hero itself weak, but smart enough to gather strong barbarians around him. A Wolf Rider, for mobility? Won't make him any stronger than that.

A few more barb heroes can't hurt.

1 About the background of the Legion of D'Tesh, i don't understand how function their slavery system. I suppose the slaves are undead, but are they zombies, spirits, others thing?.

They're animated bodies. Actually, in my version D'tesh cuts a deal with Laroth (Archmage trying to take over the precept of Death)... D'tesh gets the bodies, Laroth gets the souls. Thanatos is actually Laroth's servent, sent down to aide D'tesh.

2 About the gameplay of the Legion of D'Tesh, i have a proposition. I don't know well how function the game mechanism and if the proposition if possible, but what do you think of the idea to abandon the fallow trait and give them this trait :

2.1 There is no health disorder in cities but the more there is population, the more there is unhappiness (like Scions when they have necropolis). The environnement has no effect (forest, jungle, flood plains etc.).

2.2 The health problems can only be caused by population (the jungle, flood plains, the forest and others things don't change the health).

2.3 Every D'tesh unit wich kill an ennemy unit bring "food" (the charnel enveloppe and the spirit material) to the nearer D'Tesh city. It need a D'Tesh influence zone at least at 10 cases from the ennemie unit who has been killed. 8 killed ennemies = 1 population growth. A chosen of D'Tesh need to kill 4 ennemies for 1 population growth. An council of D'Tesh need to kill 2 ennemies for 1 population growth.

2.4 Razing a town bring one population point per one population in the town (like now) but it need a D'Tesh influence zone at least at 10 cases. Watcher are able to build forts which create influence zone. The influence zone will receive the body and soul material and send it to the nearest D'Tesh town). This idea is here to prevent the D'Tesh to attack a long distance nations or wander recon units anywhere to gather on barbarians or animals. They sould build outside forts and defend them.

2.5 Other proposition : The recognition D'Tesh units has Silence of Death only in D'Tesh territory and neutral territory because this effect is overpowered

2.6 The searing heat effect only work inside influence zone (to prevent from declaring war if you move a watcher in another nation's territory).

I think I'll keep them Fallow, mostly because they are unable to use the soul to 'feed' on, and the body is destined to be animated by D'tesh.

As for the Silence of Death promo... I kind of agree with you. What I'm thinking of, is nerfing them for D'tesh, and nerfing Arcane for Thanatos... Mailbox had intended them to use pretty much just Arcane units. I think a 75% damage limit for the Recon would work... Not sure what to do for the Arcane. Of course, this does NOT apply to their respective leaders.

Searing Heat... May not be around too much longer. I've been waiting on Jean Elcard to finish his terraforming system for FlavourMod... Once he does, all D'teshi territory will convert to Wastelands naturally.

I think some resources that are so rare there is only 1 or 2 in the world and may not even show up every game at all could be really neat.

the question the is: Is the effort to make them worth it?

Hmm... Depends on the reason. Hobbits would just be entertaining. Although I'd need a set of Good buildings, a set of Evil buildings, and a set of Neutral buildings... Although the Neutrals could probably build a few of the good/evil ones.

 

[Korias]

I think some resources that are so rare there is only 1 or 2 in the world and may not even show up every game at all could be really neat.

the question the is: Is the effort to make them worth it?

I think having the resource be a good benefit early on so you can see if you have it be nice, to prevent climbing the tech tree and realizing you dont have the appropriate resource. But I think that making them rare and non-Capital Site spawning would make them worth it if they provided +1 and +1 (Representing "Our Hobbits make us laugh!" and "They bake delicious pastries!")

 

[Darksaber1]

Or, for evil: "Hobbit's torture best" and "Hobbits bake deliciously".
Also, It should be marked more clearly that Thrall Militia is not free upkeep-maybe make the Thrall promotions visible.

 

[Valkrionn]

Updated the first post with some ideas. The Goblin hero and the Khazad Slave Trade building are definitely going in. Might even come out as modules...

Some of the other ideas are in the possible list... If enough people want them, or they catch my or Vermicious' attention, they'll go in.

 

[Randomness]

I think that Khadi arcane units should get +1 atk (fits well with ambition which gives extra xp from combat). It is not too powerfull, but, I think it helps with getting your early game adepts the xp they need to get to upgrading level.

 

[Brokenbone]

File this under the topic of "aimless feedback without proposed solution."

Flying units generally - sometimes I wonder whether in some cases they ought to be capable of defense, in other words, simply ineligible as a target.

Thought crossed my mind while playing a Mechanos game with lots of blimps, zeppelins, dirigible fleets and the like. I get that in cases they can bombard stuff, but if they end the turn on something other than a peak, melee troops, sea serpents, whatever is capable of using "that kind of tile", is capable of making an attack.

Picture standing in a stadium with both a sword, the Goodyear blimp overhead... I don't think you're going to have much luck slaying the blimp.

That said, lots of critters with the Flying promotion may not be flying at crazy altitude, melee and mounted types (angels, the 4 horsemen) may be treetop level or less, skirmishing with ground forces in a much more personal way, as hand-to-hand combat is how you'd envision damage dealing taking place.

I do see that some flying things have defensive penalties, like dirigibles having -25% vs. archery units, but do wonder if they ought have other bonus type stuff, for non-ranged combat that others may want to inflict on 'em. Again, even Saverous, waving Orthus's Axe over this head, isn't going to do much to harm a Zeppelin.

I don't have much in terms of "solution thoughts", though maybe big flyers becoming vulnerable to all sorts of attacks after they themselves make a non-ranged attack could make some sense, much like how mounted troops get a fatigue negative promotion so they can't withdraw if they're cornered, perhaps flying units once they've exposed themselves, are vulnerable for a turn to counterattack. Maybe only good for certain unit classes, or races like "Mechanical" or whatever the Kurio flying boats are. Maybe angels and other things that fly (Flesh Golems?) end up unchanged, or enjoying a lesser version of this "you can't attack me unless I make myself vulnerable" scene. Alternately when one of these units is "Healing" fortified someplace, you might assume they're vulnerable, moored to the ground with a work crew swarmed around them or something like that.

Again, I know its aimless type feedback, but I do wonder if there's any similar sentiment out there, if people tremble in fear at a stack of lizardmen stalking a BLIMP, though it may make no sense. *shrugs* I'd be more worried about a brigade of arquebusiers shooting at it I guess, easier to envision why that'd endanger your flying asset.

 

[warriorofala]

I'd call for the Deruptus Brewery House's model to be replaced by the one Orbis has; it looks way better.

Or if you want to overhaul it completely, you could pimp the alcohol industry:

1. Bring the Deruptus Brewery House to World Wonder levels (keep the alcohol resource but with better commerce bonuses, +GPP merchant points, +1 happiness civ-wide, whatever).

2. Intergrate normal breweries into the game, Orbis-style (+1 happiness per grain resource); except no riverside requirement, no bonus experience to dwarves, and with an unhealthy penalty. This way, the health minus won't be a moot point due to sewers negating the penalty.

 

[Valkrionn]

Overhauling the flight mechanic like that is a bit beyond me atm, sadly. I like the idea of it though, so long as the flying units affected are also restricted in attacking. The moment they come down, they can be destroyed.

I didn't know Orbis had a different model... Will look at it. As for normal breweries, I'm not sure... Though I do miss them. At the least, I need to change the dwarven xp code from Breweries to check for the Alcohol resource...

 

[warriorofala]

Also, if you're going for the new fruit resources and spices and stuff, you could do an overhaul for the corporations.

Orbis has really good economic depth with all its corporations and the resource-spawning executives; you could get some ideas from them.

If you want a Fall Further touch to it, you could give each corporation building its set of buyable promotions; I can think some stuff up if you need some.

 

[UNIT 666]

I wouldn't really put too much thought into how the battles go down for units, what with

If a flying unit is attacked, it is under circumstances that it allowed itself to be attacked, no matter how slim the odds are of it happening.

Just give flying units a small withdrawal chance to represent the improved mobility, plus remove the penalty for attacking over a river if that's not the case already.

 

[Brokenbone]

Fair enough, maybe it is just another spear vs. tank problem. *shrugs*

Agreed though that something like a token level of withdrawal % might make sense for flyguys, i.e., if you have the Flying promotion, you also have... +10% withdrawal or something. Again, just seeing these blimps and whatnot cruising around all of Erebus, but still subject to stacks of sleazy goblins, rubbed me the wrong way. No different though than a guy with a flint tipped spear warding off mechanized infantry I suppose.

 

[adecoy95]

is there a place were i can get a full list of all the civilizations strenghts/weaknesses, playstyles and maby a quick starting strat. there are like 28 civs, and i would like to figure out what ones i would like the most before i choose one for my next big game

EDIT: short of that, i mainly like to play a defensive game, i usually wait to conquer untill i already have late game techs, and i also try to have as much and as possible from each of hopefully many citys any civ suggestions?

 

[Sisonpyh]

Regarding improvement tweak add on it seems quarries are pretty overpowered. They make workshops completely useless and give just as much production on a flat grassland than a grass mine while having a bigger food/gold bonus. AI never builds it either.

 

[Korias]

Regarding improvement tweak add on it seems quarries are pretty overpowered. They make workshops completely useless and give just as much production on a flat grassland than a grass mine while having a bigger food/gold bonus. AI never builds it either.

Isnt that because Quarries are the land equivalent of Fishing Nets, in that they can only be placed on a resource (IE: Marble), in which case that might be why you dont see them being built by the AI?

 

[Jheral]

Isnt that because Quarries are the land equivalent of Fishing Nets, in that they can only be placed on a resource (IE: Marble), in which case that might be why you dont see them being built by the AI?

With the improvement tweaks, they can be constructed anywhere (as can all improvements that depend on resources, including fishing boats). They also have a chance to spawn the marble resource (along with sheut stone and partian artifacts, but that's less relevant, usually).

 

[adecoy95]

what improvement tweak? did you cheat or something?

 

[Jheral]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326053

The second addon. Basically it makes all improvements that depend on resources buildable anywhere, and adds a small chance of them spawning one of the resources they use (yields have also been tweaked somewhat, to make them more balanced).