RifE New Feature Speculation

[Valkrionn]

Water - Fishing boats, Farms, Plantations
Creation - Pastures, Camps, Yaranga
Earth - Mines, Quarries

I would say Sun for farms and plantations, but Sun is already pretty strong and water is pretty weak. No one ever wants more than one water.

Doesn't work that way, it's for the ability as a whole. So Discovering would be Earth, and Spreading would be Creation (or something else). Can't specify what improvements get bonuses from what resource.

 

[Milaga]

Doesn't work that way, it's for the ability as a whole. So Discovering would be Earth, and Spreading would be Creation (or something else). Can't specify what improvements get bonuses from what resource.

So one mana type for all types of discovery and one type for all types of spreading? But the only thing that will spread is farms, right?

It never really made sense to me that All of my fishing boats would start filling up with shrimp and clams just because I had a few earth mana. But it would make even less sense for my miners to strike veins of gold and copper just because I had water mana.

I can't think of any one mana type that could improve discovery on everything and have it make sense. As for spreading food resources, creation, water, even life seems appropriate.

 

[Valkrionn]

So one mana type for all types of discovery and one type for all types of spreading? But the only thing that will spread is farms, right?

It never really made sense to me that All of my fishing boats would start filling up with shrimp and clams just because I had a few earth mana. But it would make even less sense for my miners to strike veins of gold and copper just because I had water mana.

I can't think of any one mana type that could improve discovery on everything and have it make sense. As for spreading food resources, creation, water, even life seems appropriate.

Correct, one mana for discovery and one for spreading.

You are incorrect about farms being the only thing that spreads; Any organic resource can spread. Inorganic resources can be discovered.

So Earth mana would be for things like metals, gems, Salt, etc. Creation (most fitting I think, as Creation is the sphere of birth (after which Life takes over)) would be things like Horses, Sheep, Corn, Fish, Dye, etc.

 

[Andvare]

Correct, one mana for discovery and one for spreading.

You are incorrect about farms being the only thing that spreads; Any organic resource can spread. Inorganic resources can be discovered.

So Earth mana would be for things like metals, gems, Salt, etc. Creation (most fitting I think, as Creation is the sphere of birth (after which Life takes over)) would be things like Horses, Sheep, Corn, Fish, Dye, etc.

Just be careful with creation. It's 1st level spell is already very useful. I often get mind 1 creation 1, just to get an adept in every city with each, nice cheap boost.

 

[Milaga]

Correct, one mana for discovery and one for spreading.

You are incorrect about farms being the only thing that spreads; Any organic resource can spread. Inorganic resources can be discovered.

But organic resources cannot be discovered, only spread? Okay, that makes a little more sense though. I'm going to miss my oceans stocked with seafood, though.

Just be careful with creation. It's 1st level spell is already very useful. I often get mind 1 creation 1, just to get an adept in every city with each, nice cheap boost.

Creation definitely seems the most appropriate. What civs start with Creation? If nearly all the civs will have to spend one of their mana nodes on creation to get the benefit, that might be a sufficient hurdle to warrant the benefit.

And this is a speculation thread. Does that mean we're all speaking in theoreticals?

 

[Valkrionn]

But organic resources cannot be discovered, only spread? Okay, that makes a little more sense though. I'm going to miss my oceans stocked with seafood, though.



Creation definitely seems the most appropriate. What civs start with Creation? If nearly all the civs will have to spend one of their mana nodes on creation to get the benefit, that might be a sufficient hurdle to warrant the benefit.

And this is a speculation thread. Does that mean we're all speaking in theoreticals?

I believe all organic resources in 1.20 can only be spread, don't think anything changed other than the odds.

IIRC, only civ to start with creation is the Kuriotates.

 

[Sephi]

Mazatl also unless you changed that

 

[Valkrionn]

Mazatl also unless you changed that

Nope, just wasn't really aware of them having it.

 

[Cuteunit]

*rolling head on keyboard moaning pitifully with drool and blood congealing over the build cottage hotkey*

please please please nerf that damned ice spread from Auric. Bad enough that illians easily get +9 affinity ice elementals they can squirt out of limitless priests of winter ever turn but they dont even NEED that because auric can just stand there on a hill and starve out every freaking town he wants because of his ice radiation. Stupid stupid stupid broken broken broken AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

Risen emperor changed to SPI instead of ARC and Alcinus's Tower affect Divine units too. Divine units allowed to use metals. The divine line has plenty of potential but it's completely useless in multiplayer because it powers up way too slowly. Alcinus going batshit mechanic needs to just go away too, it's pointless in multi and makes him nothing but a liability while you wait for Melisandre. Good idea bad implementation. Scions suck awful in RIFE compared to say, illians, khazad(dwarven mines...wow) or Lannun or Malakim.

My friend had a great number of complaints about Blinding Light (sun 2). Is it possible to limit the number of enemy units it will land on in a stack, like collateral damage is capped? Blind/charm can stop whole stacks, which I used to successfully destroy all desire to play from my multiplayer group >_<

 

[Cuteunit]

Why did you remove Pillar of Fire from Chalid Astrakein btw?

 

[Deon]

There will be a new Animal Super Unit, with straength that surpasses all other units in the game!

Look upon the face of EVIL!

Spoiler :

CARP!!

It is stealthy and can appear almost any were!

As a side note...






OH GOD THE HIPPOS!

OMFG do I see fellow dwarves here?!!!

STRIKE THE EARTH!

P.S. I approve the addition of Zombie Carp. And we need tentacle demons who have +50% attack vs. female heroes.

Don't forget to make elephants hardcore please.


P.P.S. Darksaber, carps don't drag dwarves in the water, dwarves just jump in, being brave as they are (even when they don't know how to swim).

 

[isthmus]

Surely the issue with ice affinity elementals is the same one with death affinity spectres? Although it does require mages to summon spectres so I guess that they're more accessable. I think that only the named and high priests of winter, and mages with access to ice mana should be able to summon the ice elementals.

I always thought that arcane was a weak trait as it was, and I don't think that it really fits that alcinus' keep would affect divine units. The fact that all second tier disciple units have spells in their arsenal (the AV and OO priests in particular have quite a strong ones) seems to balance them out strengthwise with other units. I don't think that divine units are intended to be on the front line of battle anyways, I've always thought of them as support for both the medic promos and their spells, so I don't think they really need metals too.

If spells are causing that much trouble in multiplayer then it might mean that the resist magic promo may get some use - I've never used it in single player but it does grant 20% resist to magic spells, it does require combat 3 however.

EDIT: Is it worth having a separate balance thread to discuss the above topic?

Aside from balance discussions, I would love to see something more done with the two lizard civs, although the Mazatl are strong as they are I feel that they're a bit disconnected from the lore, and I feel that the Cualli flavour is a bit weak at the mo

 

[Cuteunit]

Surely the issue with ice affinity elementals is the same one with death affinity spectres? Although it does require mages to summon spectres so I guess that they're more accessable. I think that only the named and high priests of winter, and mages with access to ice mana should be able to summon the ice elementals.

I always thought that arcane was a weak trait as it was, and I don't think that it really fits that alcinus' keep would affect divine units. The fact that all second tier disciple units have spells in their arsenal (the AV and OO priests in particular have quite a strong ones) seems to balance them out strengthwise with other units. I don't think that divine units are intended to be on the front line of battle anyways, I've always thought of them as support for both the medic promos and their spells, so I don't think they really need metals too.

If spells are causing that much trouble in multiplayer then it might mean that the resist magic promo may get some use - I've never used it in single player but it does grant 20% resist to magic spells, it does require combat 3 however.

EDIT: Is it worth having a separate balance thread to discuss the above topic?

Aside from balance discussions, I would love to see something more done with the two lizard civs, although the Mazatl are strong as they are I feel that they're a bit disconnected from the lore, and I feel that the Cualli flavour is a bit weak at the mo

On the ice elementals, the problem with them atm is that every priest of winter can summon them after standing around a few turns, a fraction of the time required for death2 mages and on a more durable unit to boot. They even get 3 free named priests. Priesthood + Elementalism has been all my Illian mate has needed to steamroll the world in several games now. The snow spreading in combat makes it even worse.
Honestly, what was wrong with temples of winter being the snow spreader?


Scion's priests "thing" is helping with the scion's piddly pisspoor population with their Reborn making. No other reason to build them since Wierd Wrack's -10% debuff is somewhere between inadequate and useless. Sure doesn't hold up to ring of fire or tsunami.

As for traits and Calcination working on divines... the Scion empire is more zealot than both the Malakim and Bannor if they were bound naked together in ribbons under a do not disturb sign.
Scions can't get population nearly fast enough any way but through non-stop-rush-Korinna-Go-Conquering city eating and that doesn't fly in most multiplayer games.

 

[Valkrionn]

*rolling head on keyboard moaning pitifully with drool and blood congealing over the build cottage hotkey*

please please please nerf that damned ice spread from Auric. Bad enough that illians easily get +9 affinity ice elementals they can squirt out of limitless priests of winter ever turn but they dont even NEED that because auric can just stand there on a hill and starve out every freaking town he wants because of his ice radiation. Stupid stupid stupid broken broken broken AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

As I've said before, I'll be nerfing the ice elementals. However, Auric Ascended will continue to radiate ice, as he is meant to be a GOD. He can be killed by anything with the Godslayer (even a worker), as even if the godslayer unit loses Auric is killed. He's easy to kill off, and is meant to be strong.

If you meant that the unascended Auric unit is spreading ice, then we have an issue.

Risen emperor changed to SPI instead of ARC and Alcinus's Tower affect Divine units too. Divine units allowed to use metals. The divine line has plenty of potential but it's completely useless in multiplayer because it powers up way too slowly. Alcinus going batshit mechanic needs to just go away too, it's pointless in multi and makes him nothing but a liability while you wait for Melisandre. Good idea bad implementation. Scions suck awful in RIFE compared to say, illians, khazad(dwarven mines...wow) or Lannun or Malakim.

I haven't touched the Scions yet, is all. However, if you check some old Scion threads you'll see that I campaigned (and convinced Tarq, for a while) that Emperor should have spiritual (in addition to the rest), and I'll likely be doing that. Not sure about the Divine line getting metals, but honestly, I don't particularly like the 'new' (old now, but still, latest style) implementation for the priests. May be reverting that, in which case they don't need metals.

Alcinus will not be going away; I like him, have liked him since Tarq first came up with him as an optional addon (wasn't optional after some feedback, alot of which was mine. ).

Again, haven't gotten to all civs yet, that's a big part of what the current version is doing (and why it's taking so long); Of those you listed, only the Lanun are untouched by me.

My friend had a great number of complaints about Blinding Light (sun 2). Is it possible to limit the number of enemy units it will land on in a stack, like collateral damage is capped? Blind/charm can stop whole stacks, which I used to successfully destroy all desire to play from my multiplayer group >_<

Possible, will look at it.

Why did you remove Pillar of Fire from Chalid Astrakein btw?

I did not. Originally Chalid had Pillar of Fire and Crown of Brilliance. Kael removed Crown, left Pillar; Vehem removed Pillar (gave it to Seraphs), left Crown. I'm fine with it, he's strong enough without it.

Surely the issue with ice affinity elementals is the same one with death affinity spectres? Although it does require mages to summon spectres so I guess that they're more accessable. I think that only the named and high priests of winter, and mages with access to ice mana should be able to summon the ice elementals.

Ice Elementals are divine magic, will stay that way. Again, will be nerfed.

I always thought that arcane was a weak trait as it was, and I don't think that it really fits that alcinus' keep would affect divine units. The fact that all second tier disciple units have spells in their arsenal (the AV and OO priests in particular have quite a strong ones) seems to balance them out strengthwise with other units. I don't think that divine units are intended to be on the front line of battle anyways, I've always thought of them as support for both the medic promos and their spells, so I don't think they really need metals too.

Arcane is being buffed.... The Emperor will like it. Quite a bit, I think. And that's all I'll say on that subject currently.

The Scions priests are not like standard priests, their main role is to convert defeated units to Reborn.

If spells are causing that much trouble in multiplayer then it might mean that the resist magic promo may get some use - I've never used it in single player but it does grant 20% resist to magic spells, it does require combat 3 however.

EDIT: Is it worth having a separate balance thread to discuss the above topic?

Agree with you here. And a balance thread (so long as you realize suggestions may not be implemented, even if several people agree on it) could be a good thing.

Aside from balance discussions, I would love to see something more done with the two lizard civs, although the Mazatl are strong as they are I feel that they're a bit disconnected from the lore, and I feel that the Cualli flavour is a bit weak at the mo

Mazatl are getting a little bit (an actual reason to use the worldspell), and I have plans for the Cualli though it won't be in the next version. Focusing on Vanilla civs currently, and it's a mechanic that will require quite a bit of work.

On the ice elementals, the problem with them atm is that every priest of winter can summon them after standing around a few turns, a fraction of the time required for death2 mages and on a more durable unit to boot. They even get 3 free named priests. Priesthood + Elementalism has been all my Illian mate has needed to steamroll the world in several games now. The snow spreading in combat makes it even worse.
Honestly, what was wrong with temples of winter being the snow spreader?

Again, will be nerfed. Likely removing the ice affinity, for one, and dropping the strength.

Scion's priests "thing" is helping with the scion's piddly pisspoor population with their Reborn making. No other reason to build them since Wierd Wrack's -10% debuff is somewhere between inadequate and useless. Sure doesn't hold up to ring of fire or tsunami.

I agree with you here, that is exactly what I've always used them for.

As for traits and Calcination working on divines... the Scion empire is more zealot than both the Malakim and Bannor if they were bound naked together in ribbons under a do not disturb sign.
Scions can't get population nearly fast enough any way but through non-stop-rush-Korinna-Go-Conquering city eating and that doesn't fly in most multiplayer games.

Again, may be reverting them to the older version of the priests. In which case, they don't need metal.

 

[Milaga]

STRIKE THE EARTH!

Next time I play as Khazad I'm renaming my capital Boatmurdered.

 

[isthmus]

Scion's priests "thing" is helping with the scion's piddly pisspoor population with their Reborn making. No other reason to build them since Wierd Wrack's -10% debuff is somewhere between inadequate and useless. Sure doesn't hold up to ring of fire or tsunami.

That's completely true, completely forgot about scion disciples
They definitely fill a different role, but I'm pretty interested about this "old style" of scion priests, I havn't seen it so maybe that will address this..

Mazatl are getting a little bit (an actual reason to use the worldspell), and I have plans for the Cualli though it won't be in the next version. Focusing on Vanilla civs currently, and it's a mechanic that will require quite a bit of work.

That's fair enough, it's pretty obvious that you've been doing LOADS of stuff, even from the small amount that we've been allowed to see.. I'm loving the new art I've seen for them recently though

I'm also pretty interested in the plans for the mechanos, I hear that the ordo machinarum is being removed, does this mean a cult in the guild system or some special civics? can we spread the machine cult further than just one civilization? I've always wondered what a post magic Erebus would be like, it's been discussed in certain parts in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=290349

 

[Valkrionn]

That's completely true, completely forgot about scion disciples
They definitely fill a different role, but I'm pretty interested about this "old style" of scion priests, I havn't seen it so maybe that will address this..

The old style was simply stronger (the current implementation is weaker outside of national borders); It was changed to make it harder to farm barbs, but as the entire thing is python anyway it's easy to lower the chance for barb units.

That's fair enough, it's pretty obvious that you've been doing LOADS of stuff, even from the small amount that we've been allowed to see.. I'm loving the new art I've seen for them recently though

Mazatl aren't really getting too much, but one of the changes (while easy enough) may have a big impact on how you play them.

I'm also pretty interested in the plans for the mechanos, I hear that the ordo machinarum is being removed, does this mean a cult in the guild system or some special civics? can we spread the machine cult further than just one civilization? I've always wondered what a post magic Erebus would be like, it's been discussed in certain parts in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=290349

I plead the fifth.

 

[cyther]

I plead the fifth.

No double jeopardy, just payments for eminent domain, and you're entitled not to incriminate yourself?

 

[Darksaber1]

Or do you mean allowing the construction of a bridge from/to Prince Edward Island? (And toll it, is so chosen)

 

[Cuteunit]

As I've said before, I'll be nerfing the ice elementals. However, Auric Ascended will continue to radiate ice, as he is meant to be a GOD. He can be killed by anything with the Godslayer (even a worker), as even if the godslayer unit loses Auric is killed. He's easy to kill off, and is meant to be strong.

If you meant that the unascended Auric unit is spreading ice, then we have an issue.



I haven't touched the Scions yet, is all. However, if you check some old Scion threads you'll see that I campaigned (and convinced Tarq, for a while) that Emperor should have spiritual (in addition to the rest), and I'll likely be doing that. Not sure about the Divine line getting metals, but honestly, I don't particularly like the 'new' (old now, but still, latest style) implementation for the priests. May be reverting that, in which case they don't need metals.

Alcinus will not be going away; I like him, have liked him since Tarq first came up with him as an optional addon (wasn't optional after some feedback, alot of which was mine. ).

Again, haven't gotten to all civs yet, that's a big part of what the current version is doing (and why it's taking so long); Of those you listed, only the Lanun are untouched by me.



Possible, will look at it.



I did not. Originally Chalid had Pillar of Fire and Crown of Brilliance. Kael removed Crown, left Pillar; Vehem removed Pillar (gave it to Seraphs), left Crown. I'm fine with it, he's strong enough without it.



Ice Elementals are divine magic, will stay that way. Again, will be nerfed.



Arcane is being buffed.... The Emperor will like it. Quite a bit, I think. And that's all I'll say on that subject currently.

The Scions priests are not like standard priests, their main role is to convert defeated units to Reborn.



Agree with you here. And a balance thread (so long as you realize suggestions may not be implemented, even if several people agree on it) could be a good thing.



Mazatl are getting a little bit (an actual reason to use the worldspell), and I have plans for the Cualli though it won't be in the next version. Focusing on Vanilla civs currently, and it's a mechanic that will require quite a bit of work.



Again, will be nerfed. Likely removing the ice affinity, for one, and dropping the strength.



I agree with you here, that is exactly what I've always used them for.



Again, may be reverting them to the older version of the priests. In which case, they don't need metal.

Yes normal auric is turning everything near him into snow which is really mindblowingly powerful in battle.

Give chalid back his pillar! It's his unique ability! That's like Hemah without Hastur's Razor!

I like the sound of stronger priest units. I really really dont like Arcane empereror's premature oontz oontz from relying on necromancers... it doesnt take at all long until necros aren't killing ANYTHING to get balefire. Hell by the time you have them the enemy probably has champions and archers on walls...

Still campaigning for a higher initial Awakening rate and a Marksman unit korrinna the black here.

Oh, and on the subject of the black..... Hauntstalk ( black korinna's upgrade form) needs rebalancing. 9-13 first strikes, cannibalize, and 90% withdrawal actually had the Khazad player in my team send four Phalanx, Bambur, and a stack of the khazad Champion unit all mithril upgraded and buffed with enchanted blade at her THEN THE MITHRIL GOLEM ( which needs it's armageddon counter requirement back btw, it was only turn 220 and he was running around with it) and they all died, including the mithril golem.