[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Phoenix1595]

In case there is an Italian City-State civ, I could see, for a district, either a harbor replacement or a CH one (Piazza/Plaza), depending on the city-state they slate to lead. For a building, my best guess would be a religious one (basilica) with cultural bonus.

I would have included a cool bank with GW slots, but that is already (and appropriately) covered by Giovanni De Medici's buff.

 

[God of Kings]

Let's discuss who is most likely to lead the Cree:

• Big Bear
• Poundmaker
• Piapot
• Another leader

See here for other notable leaders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cree#Notable_leaders

 

[Zaarin]

Let's discuss who is most likely to lead the Cree:

• Big Bear
• Poundmaker
• Piapot
• Another leader

See here for other notable leaders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cree#Notable_leaders

My money's on Poundmaker, who is an ideal choice to do something interesting with alliances.

 

[liv]

I like the look of Poundmaker. But to me Big Bear is the main alliance person and I am hoping for some diplomatic ability

 

[Phoenix1595]

I'm excited to see next week's FL just to see who the Cree leader will be. And yes, an elder statesman like Poundmaker is preferable in order to highlight the diplomatic intricacies of the new alliance system.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't think every district will have a UD for some civ. Like a unique aeroport district would be weak tbh.

CH: Ottomans (Bazaar) OR Mali
Encampment: Probably next expansion, Zulu's?

Add the pier to a unique district that probably won’t happen as well. I believe we will get the Ottomans with a bazaar in this expansionwith the Zulu later with an Ikanda as a unique encampment. Mali and Italy could get unique buildings.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think Piapot will lead the Cree and the Alliance bonus will be the UA.

 

[God of Kings]

Poundmaker has a good chance of becoming leader, though I won't mind another Cree.

 

[Inhalaattori]

I would think that they had an idea quite early what Civ will have what district. It seems that Zulu Ikanda will replace the encampment. Zulus are maybe the most militaristic Civ in the history of the series so encampment replacement fits them well.

 

[darkace77450]

I don't think every district will have a UD for some civ. Like a unique aeroport district would be weak tbh.

CH: Ottomans (Bazaar) OR Mali
Encampment: Probably next expansion, Zulu's?

I've assumed that the bazaar would be a UB replacing the market. Of course I also assumed a chartered/joint-stock company would be the Dutch UB replacing the bank, so what do I know.

I would think that they had an idea quite early what Civ will have what district. It seems that Zulu Ikanda will replace the encampment. Zulus are maybe the most militaristic Civ in the history of the series so encampment replacement fits them well.

Now that Alexander leads Macedon I think Shaka might have been dethroned for the title of Most Militaristic.

 

[God of Kings]

I would think that they had an idea quite early what Civ will have what district. It seems that Zulu Ikanda will replace the encampment. Zulus are maybe the most militaristic Civ in the history of the series so encampment replacement fits them well.

I too would like to see the Ikanda replace the encampment.

 

[Prima Italia]

I still do not understand why Firaxis is not willing to implement more than one unique version of each district. Having a unique district is far better than having a unique building or improvement and it has just led to many civs with practically useless unique tile improvements.

 

[Sagax]

I still do not understand why Firaxis is not willing to implement more than one unique version of each district. Having a unique district is far better than having a unique building or improvement and it has just led to many civs with practically useless unique tile improvements.

Regarding the unique districts - hard to come up with a unique district for every civ around here.

Regarding the tile improvements - that's just a terrible balance misjudgement on Firaxis's part. There is no way Vanilla tile improvements are comparable to the unique buildings and districts, plus the fact that districts and wonders now reduce tile availability of land tiles. Between adjacency bonuses, need for farms/mines, and wonder building restrictions, unique improvements are rarely the optimal choice.

This is why Kampungs are SO good - not only the yields are good, but also there's barely any competition over water tiles - so there is almost no opportunity cost for building them.

 

[UWHabs]

I still do not understand why Firaxis is not willing to implement more than one unique version of each district. Having a unique district is far better than having a unique building or improvement and it has just led to many civs with practically useless unique tile improvements.

To me, at the very least, any unique building should be half-price, the same say that unique districts are half-price. That would at least help them a little bit more.

Unique tile improvements seem to be either too weak or too strong. Outback stations are just ridiculous for the bonuses that they give, especially if Australia will often have a +100% production bonus from their other abilities, they just give insane production. But on the flipside, a lot of the other improvements (Chateaux, sphinx, etc...) are kind of okay sometimes to throw on a random desert tile, but I'd pretty much always rather another real improvement to it.

 

[Prima Italia]

Regarding the unique districts - hard to come up with a unique district for every civ around here.

Maybe, but I was not asking for that. I was asking why Firaxis will not implement more then one unique version of each district. It does not have to be for every civilization. And all it has wrought is new civs getting tile improvements instead which for the most part are useless. We have seen faith based tile improvements associated with science, culture, food and gold. Hardly innovative. Personally I do not agree that it is difficult to come up with unique districts looking at how generic some of the tile improvements are especially the aforementioned faith based ones.

To me, at the very least, any unique building should be half-price, the same say that unique districts are half-price. That would at least help them a little bit more.

Yes, it would but not wholly. In order to build a unique building, first you must build the district, so even if the costs were halved, just by having the district as a prerequisite for the unique building makes having a unique district still stronger, since it comes earlier. In the case of second tier and third unique building, it is even worse since they have the buildings to be built before and then can be built.

 

[Sagax]

Maybe, but I was not asking for that. I was asking why Firaxis will not implement more then one unique version of each district. It does not have to be for every civilization. And all it has wrought is new civs getting tile improvements instead which for the most part are useless. We have seen faith based tile improvements associated with science, culture, food and gold. Hardly innovative. Personally I do not agree that it is difficult to come up with unique districts looking at how generic some of the tile improvements are especially the aforementioned faith based ones.

And why do you think additional unique districts would be innovative? We could always end up with something like "Another unique industrial district - now with +science for adjacency bonuses" - would that be "innovative"? Look at Korea, they got a unique district, and yet still feel on a blander side in terms of gameplay.

How innovative a unique <blank> can be depends on one and one thing only - creativity and technical capacity of developers. And if your issue with not enough UDs come from the fact that they are stronger than other types of unique infrastructure, then again - that's more the problem of improvements being weak, rather than the problem of Firaxis not adding more unique districts.

 

[God of Kings]

Norway and the Khmer both have unique buildings that replace the temple. It would be interesting for two civs to replace the same district.

For example, Canada and the Ottomans can have unique commercial hubs. However, they need to have substantial differences.

 

[Prima Italia]

And why do you think additional unique districts would be innovative? We could always end up with something like "Another unique industrial district - now with +science for adjacency bonuses" - would that be "innovative"? Look at Korea, they got a unique district, and yet still feel on a blander side in terms of gameplay.

How innovative a unique <blank> can be depends on one and one thing only - creativity and technical capacity of developers. And if your issue with not enough UDs come from the fact that they are stronger than other types of unique infrastructure, then again - that's more the problem of improvements being weak, rather than the problem of Firaxis not adding more unique districts.

I don't think it would and never implied it either. I was asking why Firaxis has not implemented more than one unique version of each district. A unique district is better than a unique tile improvement gameplay wise and yet a lot of the civs have been getting unique tile improvements because again Firaxis has for some strange reason decided against implementing more than one unique version of a district.

 

[God of Kings]

I don't think it would and never implied it neither. I was asking why Firaxis has not implemented more than one unique version of each district. A unique district is better than a unique tile improvement gameplay wise and yet a lot of the civs have been getting unique tile improvements because again Firaxis has for some strange reason decided against implementing more than one unique version of a district.

I agree.

Having more than one unique version of a particular district would be very interesting indeed.

If there can be more than one unique version of a particular building, why not the same for districts?

 

[Prima Italia]

Norway and the Khmer both have unique buildings that replace the temple. It would be interesting for two civs to replace the same district.

For example, Canada and the Ottomans can have unique commercial hubs. However, they need to have substantial differences.

They have also added unique units that replace the same units, for example Rome, Macedon and Kongo have replacements for the swordsman. They are all different from each other and are relevant for each civilization. It would be very interesting to see different versions of the same district and it has been lacking so far especially insofar that the games primary idea was unstacking the cities and providing districts instead of building everything in the city center.