[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Leyrann]

So, what do you guys think for the chances of a first look today?

I think we'll see a European civ with a male leader. That rules out the Dutch assuming they are led by Wilhelmina (which seems probable). If the Celts are in this expansion, they might be a possibility; new leaders might mean we finally see Boudicca retired in place of Vercingetorix (another name for Sean Bean to mangle ). Portugal under Henry the Navigator might be another possibility, but I'd be really surprised to see the Netherlands and Portugal in the same expansion. If the Byzantines have a male leader and are in this expansion, that's another possibility.

I don't get it. Why does everyone think Wilhelmina will be the Dutch leader? While she was (figure)head of state, the Netherlands surrendered to the German invasion after five days. FIVE. That's the time it takes to play a single game of Civilization if you play a few hours per day.

 

[Ferocitus]

From which you'd never guess he had a cleft palate.

... new leaders might mean we finally see Boudicca retired...

If we found only one photo or painting of FDR from around WW2, how much could
we infer from it?

I hope we get a new leader for England. Oliver Cromwell!

 

[Ferocitus]

My stepfather is a neurosurgeon & he is one of those people who have diagnosed Akhenaten. There is actually a deformity which your skull becomes oblong like that, though it's very rare.

I remember seeing a doco about 10-20 years ago that suggested
he had Marfan's Syndrome. Abe Lincoln too?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So, what do you guys think for the chances of a first look today?



I don't get it. Why does everyone think Wilhelmina will be the Dutch leader? While she was (figure)head of state, the Netherlands surrendered to the German invasion after five days. FIVE. That's the time it takes to play a single game of Civilization if you play a few hours per day.

Regardless of the Netherlands' capacity to stand up to the full strength of the blitzkrieg, she was a strong-willed, principled leader who did her utmost to support her people, even in exile.

 

[God of Kings]

The Netherlands may use a different Dutch folk tune this time.

 

[Uberfrog]

The Netherlands may use a different Dutch folk tune this time.

Civ IV's (albeit circus-y) rendition of "Kent gij het land?" and Civ V's "In naam van Oranje" were both very strong choices of tune, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them returned if the Dutch are indeed in the expansion. But there must be a wealth of possible tunes to pick from. Firaxis doesn't generally go too obscure (if Scarborough Fair and Kalinka are anything to go by...)

 

[KnightModern]

Yes we do. Mondays are for Twitter teases/red herrings from Ed Beach.

I thought we're talking about Ed Beach, not Ed Boon

 

[WillowBrook]

So, what do you guys think for the chances of a first look today?

Quite low. Maybe 5%?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Quite low. Maybe 5%?

They might to a mechanics one today, but I doubt it. They definitely aren't doing another civ today, since there wasn't a tease yesterday.

 

[Leyrann]

Regardless of the Netherlands' capacity to stand up to the full strength of the blitzkrieg, she was a strong-willed, principled leader who did her utmost to support her people, even in exile.

My biggest problem with it is that I have a hard time believing they wouldn't pay attention to it in history class with the (arguably too big) focus on WWII in the Netherlands if it really was that much. And I also dislike that she never had any actual power; I prefer to see leaders who used their power to achieve great things. Offering resistence, while certainly being an admirable trait, isn't achieving greatness if it doesn't result in anything (which sets her apart from someone like Gandhi).

Additionally I've also heard a lot of critique on the Dutch government and royal house immediately leaving when Germany invaded.

Eh, I don't know. I feel like Wilhelmina is only considered a possibility because people started mentioning her in the forums a few days ago, and I'd much rather see either William of Orange (who, admittedly, we've seen several times already, which I also consider an argument against his inclusion) or king William I, who brought the Netherlands into the Industrial Era after Napoleon.

Or to name some more out there candidates:

Johan of Oldebarneveldt, who ruled the young Netherlands during the first half of the independance war with William of Orange's... nephew, I believe.
William III, who got the Netherlands through the "disaster year" 1672, when England, France and the bishops of Münster and Cologne all invaded the Netherlands and later unified the Netherlands and England (for a while).
Johan Thorbecke, who, on command of king William II, rewrote the Dutch constitution to avoid a possible revolution, like had happened in several other countries in that year (1848). Shortly after that, he also became Minister-President, which, due to the changes, made him effectively the highest power in the Netherlands (like the king had been previously and still was in name).

I'd prefer them all over Wilhelmina, mostly because I can't think of anything bigger than "giving speeches about courage from London" for her.

 

[Leyrann]

*refreshes YouTube*

NEW VIDEO!

*random League of Legends video that makes me wonder why I even subbed to the official channel*

 

[liv]

I think Leyrann that the hint that one female is involved with the new mechanic of bad and good times and also all the Dutch hints from WW2 made people guess her. I think she is a good candidate. Her role as a leader during WW2 is not untypical for the role of royalty and exciles in that period and she was a symbol for freedom. I do not think she is to blame for the fact that a small country like the Netherlands saw it better to just capitulate to the overwhelming German forces. Denmark fell in one day. Some did not even try to fight. It was important for all the Hitler occupied countries to have symbols for nationality both during and after the occupation. I think the popularity of the monarchs still in Europe has a lot to do with how well they did during WW2. But who ever the leader is I am excited with the prospects of getting the Dutch back in since the game mechanics with that civ is always interesting and in the end I think that is the most important thing.

 

[Captain Fargle]

William III, who got the Netherlands through the "disaster year" 1672, when England, France and the bishops of Münster and Cologne all invaded the Netherlands and later unified the Netherlands and England (for a while).

There's no way in hell they pick King Billy. Trust me on this as someone from Northern Ireland.

 

[liv]

What would the Dutch colours be?

 

[luigilime]

What would the Dutch colours be?

orange and blue maybe?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

orange and blue maybe?

Maybe the inverse of Sumeria.

 

[Leyrann]

I'd guess orange and white, like in Civ V.

 

[liv]

Will they change Australia then?

 

[luigilime]

I'd guess orange and white, like in Civ V.

i would prefer it aswel, the problem is australia has that colour scheeme

 

[WillowBrook]

What would the Dutch colours be?

Not red.

So it's a good candidate for this coming week.

Though they could be teasing us with the clues. After all, Rome and Germany are in the trailer, and they're already in the game; they could be saving some of the hinted at civs for the second expansion.

But I'm guessing we'll see the Dutch on Tuesday. They wouldn't reveal two Asian civs in a row (no Mongols), and I think they'll save bigger surprises for later.