[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Disgustipated]

Does Royal Society not work on spaceports? How do I get it to work? I have a builder with full charges (6 charges) sitting on the spaceport. I have a feeling I wasted building Royal Society government building (not that the others were useful to me).

edit: Oh it's district projects not districts. What a completely useless government building. Does anyone find a use for this?

I've managed to really scream through the tech tree like I never have before, and I think I got this game in the bag. I still have to build a lot of culture stuff in other cities to keep Scotland from getting a cultural victory. They just got out ahead and stayed there. Russia is in 2nd place stomping Poland right now. And yes they have taken 2 cities that had cities walls just now. And I am in 3rd place, not a place I'm used to being at this difficulty level (King). I'll still win, it's just strange being in 3rd place. I've managed to close the gap to 141 points though.

I did manage all that through no conquering of cities. It's good to know a pacifist run is still viable at least up to this difficulty level, but of course having OP science makes it easier.

 

[bbbt]

Does Royal Society not work on spaceports? How do I get it to work? I have a builder with full charges (6 charges) sitting on the spaceport. I have a feeling I wasted building Royal Society government building (not that the others were useful to me).

edit: Oh it's district projects not districts. What a completely useless government building. Does anyone find a use for this?

They can be used on the space victory projects, just not building district itself. That's presumably the intention.

 

[Disgustipated]

They can be used on the space victory projects, just not building district itself. That's presumably the intention.

Oh, then that will work. And do I get more production for a 6 charge builder than a 4 charge builder?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Oh, then that will work. And do I get more production for a 6 charge builder than a 4 charge builder?

I believe they will use all their charges at once on a district project. The Royal Society was made for an easier Science victory since there is no other reason at this point to use them on other projects so late in the game, while the National Museum is for a Cultural Victory and War Department is for Domination Victory basically.
Grand Master's Chapel could be seen as somewhat of a Religious Victory building the tier before.

 

[PhilBowles]

I believe they will use all their charges at once on a district project. The Royal Society was made for an easier Science victory since there is no other reason at this point to use them on other projects so late in the game, while the National Museum is for a Cultural Victory and War Department is for Domination Victory basically.
Grand Master's Chapel could be seen as somewhat of a Religious Victory building the tier before.

I'm still confused as to why the science victory ought to be easier - it was easy to begin with.

I just stole a science victory in my Deity game I had no real right to win - multiple civs had reached Mars projects before I had a spaceport up, and two were potential culture victory contenders. Once my spaceport was up my main production city took 8 turns per project before I had Ecommerce. This time the AI was asleep with its spies - I never had spies killed on missions and never had my spaceport or industrial zone pillaged, and the Arabia AI wasn't using its Ruhr Valley city as its main space centre.

I did have to continually take out enemy spaceports - mostly with spies, but nukes were involved on a couple of occasions. And I didn't have the Royal Society because I wasn't expecting to go for a science victory. Don't get me wrong - that was the game where I've had to work hardest to win in Civ VI, but given that it was my first Deity game I'd naturally expect that. Science victory is nevertheless considerably easier to achieve - and with far less forward planning - than any other type (Domination may technically be easier, but is more tedious).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm still confused as to why the science victory ought to be easier - it was easy to begin with.

Maybe it would have just felt unbalanced if you didn't give Civs a chance to construct a Science victory Govt. Plaza building while the other victory types had at least one dedicated to them already.

 

[bbbt]

Oh, then that will work. And do I get more production for a 6 charge builder than a 4 charge builder?

Yeah you get a percent per charge or something like that.

 

[dexters]

I'm still confused as to why the science victory ought to be easier - it was easy to begin with.

I just stole a science victory in my Deity game I had no real right to win - multiple civs had reached Mars projects before I had a spaceport up, and two were potential culture victory contenders. Once my spaceport was up my main production city took 8 turns per project before I had Ecommerce. This time the AI was asleep with its spies - I never had spies killed on missions and never had my spaceport or industrial zone pillaged, and the Arabia AI wasn't using its Ruhr Valley city as its main space centre.

I did have to continually take out enemy spaceports - mostly with spies, but nukes were involved on a couple of occasions. And I didn't have the Royal Society because I wasn't expecting to go for a science victory. Don't get me wrong - that was the game where I've had to work hardest to win in Civ VI, but given that it was my first Deity game I'd naturally expect that. Science victory is nevertheless considerably easier to achieve - and with far less forward planning - than any other type (Domination may technically be easier, but is more tedious).

I agree, I feel like the tier 2 and 3 government buildings need to be relooked at.

The 3 tier 3 buildings appear to be geared for 3 victory types; Natural History Museum for culture ; Royal Society for science, and War Department for Domination; butt I've used Natural History Museum just to get extra slots to put artwork in even if I'm not going for a cultural victory, it's always nice to have high culture in a core city where I already have a broadcast tower up, since it's unlikely I will grab any of the wonders with free art slots in higher difficulty play and it's more efficient than adding a new theatre district somewhere else. So my feeling is, those tier 3 buildings are usually picked based on my needs at the time, not necessarily my VC.

(tier 2) Foreign ministry should provide envoys and some other benefits rather than really crappy buffs on levied troops (it's just stronger to go intelligence agency for my tier 2 government building) ; In fact, I feel like Royal Society should take Foreign Ministry's place as a tier 2 building, and instead of allowing builders to use all their charges, perhaps allow it to give a random euraka on a late game tech, one time boost to science GP points, (or possibly a free pick as a scientific GP)

move foreign ministry as a tier 3 building, keep the levied troops benefit, but grant extra envoys and increase points earned per turn towards new envoys, or alternatively, increase number of envoys earned each time the bar is filled.

 

[Disgustipated]

Yeah you get a percent per charge or something like that

Okay thanks. I'll keep public works then. I was hoping to change out of it since Scotland snagged Forbidden Palace and I don't have a lot of slots. I really want to run free market.

 

[Eramas]

They can be used on the space victory projects, just not building district itself. That's presumably the intention.

It sucks that you can use only one builder per turn though.

 

[Disgustipated]

I sure do miss the reduced gold buying costs of great people with Democracy though. When Carl Sagan first came up his cost was 66,000 gold! I sure don't have that much, I'm only making close to 600 a turn. I'm wondering if it's cheaper to keep buying builders with royal society, or save up for that great scientist. He will eventually get cheaper as I'm getting 39 great scientist points a turn.

 

[UWHabs]

I sure do miss the reduced gold buying costs of great people with Democracy though. When Carl Sagan first came up his cost was 66,000 gold! I sure don't have that much, I'm only making close to 600 a turn. I'm wondering if it's cheaper to keep buying builders with royal society, or save up for that great scientist. He will eventually get cheaper as I'm getting 39 great scientist points a turn.

Royal Society really does make it cheap. My last game, each 6-charge builder, combined with Pingala's bonus to space projects (they stack, maybe? I dunno) seemed to be giving about 1/4 of each space project. So 4 builders and a project is done, is an awful lot cheaper than buying a great scientist. Yeah, it takes 4 turns to complete, but still is a lot cheaper when builders at that point are probably only 600-800 gold each.

 

[Trengilly]

I've had AI Korea in two games now. Both times she got a good start in science but then slowed down as she proceeded to surround her Seowons with other districts.

The AI doesn't appear to understand how they work and wasn't any threat.

 

[Morningcalm]

I've had AI Korea in two games now. Both times she got a good start in science but then slowed down as she proceeded to surround her Seowons with other districts.

The AI doesn't appear to understand how they work and wasn't any threat.

I noticed that with AI Seondeok too. That's why the passive "if happy, extra Great Scientist points" bonus of Scotland makes for a stronger AI. The AI in general does better with passive bonuses (like Mvemba a Nzinga/Afonso of Kongo whose huge growth bonuses make him a science threat).

 

[Disgustipated]

Yeah I forgot about Pingala's last promotion, and I didn't have him promoted up. I was using Magnus who gets a decent production boost with the adjacent industrial zone bonus. Builder charges may stack with Pingala, I'll have to keep that in mind in the future. Builders probably is the way to go with royal society. Especially since my spaceship parts come in spurts as I'm waiting on further research to get the other 2 parts. I usually go for Robotics first, but then I usually have a bunch of techs to catch up with for the other 2 (since I don't research the bottom half of the tree after steel). So my builder charges helped speed the other 2 parts along that Korolev or Sagan wouldn't have been able to help (I didn't have the Mausoleum this game for Korolev to get 2 charges).

Turns out Sergei Korolev came up after I recruited a great engineer, and I bought him for 14,000 gold, he seems way cheaper than Sagan, granted he gives less production, but still enough to finish the last spaceship part in 1 turn. And does the production even matter? I heard they don't overflow anymore, does anyone know for sure?

Royal Society really does make it cheap. My last game, each 6-charge builder, combined with Pingala's bonus to space projects (they stack, maybe? I dunno) seemed to be giving about 1/4 of each space project. So 4 builders and a project is done, is an awful lot cheaper than buying a great scientist. Yeah, it takes 4 turns to complete, but still is a lot cheaper when builders at that point are probably only 600-800 gold each.

 

[Zenstrive]

You don't get era points from conquering a non-capital. I'll admit I'm not sure wheter city states count as capitals though.

Anyways, there's enough era points to get. Great People, high adjacency districts (I chopped a Holy Site just to ensure a Heroic Age in my current game), dedications, wonders (3-4 each!), and that's just the ones that are (almost) infinitely repeatable (except districts but you get it for each of 5 or 6 districts). Or some of them, it's not like I've been going through the list of historic moments to make sure I caught them all.

Now I know some non dedication era points:

1. Converting enemy cities to your religion during war
2. overthrowing suzerainity of your enemies on a city states
3. Converting holy cities to your religion
4. First units using strategic resource
5. First caravel
6. Absorb free cities
7. Overthrow governors
8. Great people patronage using faiths/money
9. Great people patronage using great people points
10. First religion
11. First techs and civics for each era.
12. First circumnavigation (without actually navigating, by opening maps due to alliances is acceptable)
13. Complete all four of your religion beliefs
14. Starting inquisition.
15. World Wonders (boy, AIs are making them more and more, Robert the Bruce for particular)
16. Fully promote a governor

I put the list on this article https://steemit.com/civilization/@zenstrive/how-to-earn-era-points-for-civilization-vi-rise-and-fall

 

[Katakanja]

Now I know some non dedication era points:

1. Converting enemy cities to your religion during war
2. overthrowing suzerainity of your enemies on a city states
3. Converting holy cities to your religion
4. First units using strategic resource
5. First caravel
6. Absorb free cities
7. Overthrow governors
8. Great people patronage using faiths/money
9. Great people patronage using great people points
10. First religion
11. First techs and civics for each era.
12. First circumnavigation (without actually navigating, by opening maps due to alliances is acceptable)
13. Complete all four of your religion beliefs
14. Starting inquisition.
15. World Wonders (boy, AIs are making them more and more, Robert the Bruce for particular)
16. Fully promote a governor

I put the list on this article https://steemit.com/civilization/@zenstrive/how-to-earn-era-points-for-civilization-vi-rise-and-fall

There's a complete list ingame in the civilopedia.

 

[NuclearWeapons]

Quick question for anyone who's played more Georgia than me. Do you have to be in a protectorate war before the extra envoy ability works? This morning I added an envoy to a CS which had my majority religion and it only added one.

 

[Leyrann]

Quick question for anyone who's played more Georgia than me. Do you have to be in a protectorate war before the extra envoy ability works? This morning I added an envoy to a CS which had my majority religion and it only added one.

No, you don't. Are you certain you actually had your majority religion in your own city? And did you close the envoy screen and open it again? Otherwise it doesn't refresh. If the answer to both is yes, this is a bug.

Regarding the spaceship projects, I'll admit I used the Royal Society in my recent SV, but it's not like I needed it. I don't know where all the problems come from, but starting a bunch of trade routes in a city with a lot of mines and Ruhr Valley (domestic if no Ecommmerce, foreign if Ecommerce) is on standard speed enough to be able to build the Mars parts in some five turns each without boosts, and then I wasn't even trying to stack production (I actually built a part in 15 turns in a secondary city with less trade routes and of course no Ruhr Valley). I did really stack production in an earlier game, shortly before R&F, and I actually needed like three or four turns per project. And that's without Great People.

 

[Zenstrive]

There's a complete list ingame in the civilopedia.

no one reads civiliopedia