[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Mojo85]

I agree. I have always been a ww2 buff, specifically the eastern front but knew zero about the crusades other than Christians get chapped Butt cheeks when the big bad Muslims moved in. But their video gave me a great entertaining summary that spurred me to read more on the subject

 

[Zenstrive]

After a Golden Age, I fell into dark age, and then waged war to uplift me into Heroic Age, and continue the war while still accumulating era points to end up in golden age.
That really hammers the point that this game is war-heavy. I am now the only civ left on my continent and pursuing science victory while everyone hates me.
Pretty 180o turn from my previous win that is mostly peaceful religious victory.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm trying the Cree for the first time. The Mekewap is kind of underwhelming, but it will get better with further techs and civics.

The UA is kind of nice right at the beginning, but once it's done it's done. The LUA doesn't seem to have a whole lot of value. Just a little extra food and gold per route. And the visibility thing is kind of meh.

The UU is nice for scouting, but pricey. Some have talked about doing a scout rush, but I still think an archer rush is superior.

So what is the big appeal for playing the Cree? Is something better than I am seeing?

 

[Mojo85]

The Mekewap is amazing/borderline overpowered. Housing is never an issue and mediocre tiles that would go to waste are now useful because of it IMO.

 

[Guandao]

The Mekewap is amazing/borderline overpowered. Housing is never an issue and mediocre tiles that would go to waste are now useful because of it IMO.

Is the Mekewap the Cree equivalent to an Indonesian Kampung?

 

[Jewelrunna]

I'm trying the Cree for the first time. The Mekewap is kind of underwhelming, but it will get better with further techs and civics.

The UA is kind of nice right at the beginning, but once it's done it's done. The LUA doesn't seem to have a whole lot of value. Just a little extra food and gold per route. And the visibility thing is kind of meh.

The UU is nice for scouting, but pricey. Some have talked about doing a scout rush, but I still think an archer rush is superior.

So what is the big appeal for playing the Cree? Is something better than I am seeing?

The appeal seems to be that the UA gets you off to a strong start by handing you a free trade route and free method of expansion. I've seen some pretty crazy Cree borders early on thanks to it. The LA is also pretty decent, if my assumption that the bonus applies to internal trade routes, and that you get gold when people send their trade routes to you. And the Mekewap gives pretty solid yields if they're placed correctly, but those can be hard to achieve at times. They do scale amazingly though. I will say they're not among the best Civs in the game, but they're good and unique, and therefore fun to play.

 

[bbbt]

I'm trying the Cree for the first time. The Mekewap is kind of underwhelming, but it will get better with further techs and civics.

The UA is kind of nice right at the beginning, but once it's done it's done. The LUA doesn't seem to have a whole lot of value. Just a little extra food and gold per route. And the visibility thing is kind of meh.

The UU is nice for scouting, but pricey. Some have talked about doing a scout rush, but I still think an archer rush is superior.

So what is the big appeal for playing the Cree? Is something better than I am seeing?

The LUA can be pretty awesome if you get the right city with a number of pastures/camps (and get those up early), but in general it's minor. The UI is definitely weaker in the beginning (unless you need early housing), but definitely kicks in later. Though a well placed one is great in that you get food+prod (and sometimes gold). There's no defending that UU.

My experience with them was similar when I started where I wasn't blown away at the start, but by mid-game it was a lot more apparent. Between the UI (and it's housing bonus) and the LUA to some degree, you just end up with a lot more significant sized cities by mid-game than you usually do, and this was without building granaries, or farm triangles.

 

[Zenstrive]

With Cree, it seems AI is more prone to be peaceful simply for that shared visibility for all levels of alliance. Mekewap is nice in the long run as you found more and more resources. That LUA is simply crazy for big Cree civ with tons of internal trade routes. The UU is good for fearless early exploration. It can face barb's scouts and warriors alone in the wild.

 

[Leyrann]

What I like most about the Cree is that it's actually realistic to get into a Classical Golden Age because of the 8 Era Points from the unique unit and unique improvement, something that I feel like is impossible to do with other civilizations, at least on deity/standard speed. In fact even with the Cree I feel like I need to scramble for all Era Points and, if possible, build a Splendid Campus or something in order to get there.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Now that I've achieved Civil Service, the Mekewap is a lot better. I think there was an undocumented housing buff as that civic as well. It doesn't show it on the tooltip, but my Housing from improvements number only makes sense if I'm getting 2 Housing from them now. My cities are getting huge.

Also, now that myself and the AI have improved several camps and pastures, Favorable Terms is getting good.

I guess despite getting all its benefits frontloaded, the Cree still have more of a mid-game peak on their power curve.

 

[Mojo85]

The unique scout for the cree might be overblown in my case as I use the good goody huts mod which makes goody huts a lot more abundant and exciting to me so getting a quick mobile scout out to get more of them is a lot of fun

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I'm trying the Cree for the first time. The Mekewap is kind of underwhelming, but it will get better with further techs and civics.

The UA is kind of nice right at the beginning, but once it's done it's done. The LUA doesn't seem to have a whole lot of value. Just a little extra food and gold per route. And the visibility thing is kind of meh.

The UU is nice for scouting, but pricey. Some have talked about doing a scout rush, but I still think an archer rush is superior.

So what is the big appeal for playing the Cree? Is something better than I am seeing?

I found that the trade route bonus was pretty awesome actually, a lot more than "a little extra food and gold." The +things for camps and pastures are for both receiving and gaining, so you're double dipping on that bonus for internal routes. Going along with the Magnus growth promotion I just sent all of my routes from the outer cities into the capital. I had more money and bigger cities than I knew what to do with. I prioritized the CH though.

After a while I went external, I guess about when you normally start doing that way. WISSELBANKEN policy card is awesome for them, as is REFORM THE COINAGE golden age.

Of course maybe I just got lucky with lots of camps in my capital.

 

[Katakanja]

I found that the trade route bonus was pretty awesome actually, a lot more than "a little extra food and gold." The +things for camps and pastures are for both receiving and gaining, so you're double dipping on that bonus for internal routes. Going along with the Magnus growth promotion I just sent all of my routes from the outer cities into the capital. I had more money and bigger cities than I knew what to do with. I prioritized the CH though.

After a while I went external, I guess about when you normally start doing that way. WISSELBANKEN policy card is awesome for them, as is REFORM THE COINAGE golden age.

Of course maybe I just got lucky with lots of camps in my capital.

To add to this, you mention Magnus, but they also synergise well with Reyna since they're trade route heavy - rank her up and buy districts till they are coming out of your ears.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Now that I've achieved Civil Service, the Mekewap is a lot better. I think there was an undocumented housing buff as that civic as well. It doesn't show it on the tooltip, but my Housing from improvements number only makes sense if I'm getting 2 Housing from them now. My cities are getting huge.

Also, now that myself and the AI have improved several camps and pastures, Favorable Terms is getting good.

I guess despite getting all its benefits frontloaded, the Cree still have more of a mid-game peak on their power curve.

Yes. I had to play a number of games as the Cree to figure that out. I wasn't able to play them well as a fast expander, but they can be a juggernaut by the Medieval era (possibly Classical, too, if you're a better player than me). You can use their uniques to time your first golden age to your preference, as neither are particularly useful, to my mind, in the ancient era, but get better as you go along: Mekewaps when you need cheap housing boosts, Okihtcitaws to form inexpensive corps/armies before upgrading to Rangers / Spec Ops.

Also, moving Traders to new cities is especially good for the Cree. Point those traders towards your nearest neighbours and grab up the land before they can. Mid game, a new city with three Traders can grab a lot of territory without spending any gold.

@Guondao: Yes, the Mekewaps made the Cree feel more like Indonesia than any other civ I've played. Tons of housing, so I focused my mid and late game policy cards on generating Amenities (which now and for always will live in the sea for me thanks to Itccone's grandson) and developed honking huge cities. Totally not efficient play, but my giant golden age cities were flipping neighbouring cities like crazy. Then build up the Mekewaps in the newly joined city, have it's population explode, and rinse and repeat, until you've rolled the borders of all your neighbours back to their capitals.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yes. I had to play a number of games as the Cree to figure that out. I wasn't able to play them well as a fast expander, but they can be a juggernaut by the Medieval era (possibly Classical, too, if you're a better player than me). You can use their uniques to time your first golden age to your preference, as neither are particularly useful, to my mind, in the ancient era, but get better as you go along: Mekewaps when you need cheap housing boosts, Okihtcitaws to form inexpensive corps/armies before upgrading to Rangers / Spec Ops.

Also, moving Traders to new cities is especially good for the Cree. Point those traders towards your nearest neighbours and grab up the land before they can. Mid game, a new city with three Traders can grab a lot of territory without spending any gold.

@Guondao: Yes, the Mekewaps made the Cree feel more like Indonesia than any other civ I've played. Tons of housing, so I focused my mid and late game policy cards on generating Amenities (which now and for always will live in the sea for me thanks to Itccone's grandson) and developed honking huge cities. Totally not efficient play, but my giant golden age cities were flipping neighbouring cities like crazy. Then build up the Mekewaps in the newly joined city, have it's population explode, and rinse and repeat, until you've rolled the borders of all your neighbours back to their capitals.

Yeah, the high population potential makes it likely that they can flip their neighbors. I'm angling to flip my Egyptian neighbor later. Unfortunately, I don't think little miss Golden Age (Tamar) to my south is going to be readily flippable.

The Ancestral Hall is good for the Cree. The free Builder can help you get a Mekewap or two up in your new cities. Transfer a Trader there and run the route back to the capital and it will be good size in no time flat.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Yeah, the high population potential makes it likely that they can flip their neighbors. I'm angling to flip my Egyptian neighbor later. Unfortunately, I don't think little miss Golden Age (Tamar) to my south is going to be readily flippable.

The Ancestral Hall is good for the Cree. The free Builder can help you get a Mekewap or two up in your new cities. Transfer a Trader there and run the route back to the capital and it will be good size in no time flat.

I had Tamar as my neighbour and ally in my latest game. She slipped into one little normal age during the Renaissance and it was like Saturday morning at Smitty's (IHOP for Americans, not sure the rest of the world has dedicated pancake houses?) She stayed my ally through the whole ordeal. Nice of her not to blame me for the fecklessness of her people.

 

[Katakanja]

not sure the rest of the world has dedicated pancake houses?

Oh you crazy, decadent, North Americans with your dedicated pancake houses. We impoverished folk from other continents can only dream of such wonders

Perhaps they will even be the American/Canadian UI for civ VII?

 

[marius_kaparius]

I see that 2kqa_a updated on Friday so hopefully a patch is on the way. I'm hoping for further AI improvements. I watched some of Civtrader6's videos and learned enough that I'm finding it hard to lose

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I see that 2kqa_a updated on Friday so hopefully a patch is on the way. I'm hoping for further AI improvements. I watched some of Civtrader6's videos and learned enough that I'm finding it hard to lose

They had 2 updates last week. So they are working on something. Next Thursday is the 1 month anniversary of R&F. I wonder if they will do a 30 day patch like they did after vanilla launch.

 

[historix69]

They had 2 updates last week. So they are working on something. Next Thursday is the 1 month anniversary of R&F. I wonder if they will do a 30 day patch like they did after vanilla launch.

R&F was released on 2018-02-08. Today is the 26th, so R&F is just 18 days out.