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Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

Late barbarian wonders will be completely free (0 shields), and -based on Randy's comments- I am thinking at making their late units much faster (infantry with M2, cavalry with M3 or even M4). That could help them going though the border fortifications. On topic with the non-focused barb. attacks, one way to solve this would be to increase the number of waves of these wonders, but this must be subject for serious testing, otherwise, I might just flood the Roman under disruptores and incursores. Another way would be to make any of these units strong enough to be a threat alone (which they are already supposed to be, but we might need to boost that too).

Now, based on Randy's save game, I have made a major change for next patch, to weaken the way the Roman Empire can strenghten itself by early imperial times. City won't grow as much as before, especially in less favorable areas (you will still be able to have metropolis in Italy, Africa, Asia, Syria and Egypt, but not much anywhere else). In short, except for a landmark grassland, grasslands now only produce one food, and plains no longer produces a shield (mined hills will produce 3 shields). Coastal areas produce less trade too. There are other changes to terrain as well. I know many will first feel these changes are hard but it should really help to keep the Roman economy under control.

Otherwise:
*Pictii units will cost no pop so that you will see more of these pretty warriors swarming your Britain cities.
*Very interesting info on updating armies!
*Spaceship is the new victory trigger (VP are just to motivate the AI to get into your land), it requires that you stick to enough territory (or reconquer enough of it) before 600AC to have the Byzantine to survive the threats ahead (Jihad, Vikings, Crusaders and so forth :)). I tried testing it in DEBUG but wasn't successful. Let me know if it works. Besides Byzantium, oriental & egyptian goods, it requires Rome, Gauls & Barbarian Goods to reflect two things: the reconquest by Justinian (or more correctly Belisarus) of Italy, parts of Spain, Africa, and better relation with the barbarians (which mean you get them to trade that barb. goods resource). Now, this was recently added and it certainly deserves some more thinking. Since I moved the Gaul goods out of Spain, as suggested, I will have to change some of it anyway.
*Domination victory would have to be very high since Rome is going to have a outrageous larger population and territory late in game ( a bit less so with the new patch). Plus, with the barb cities that will be on marshes (to force the HN units go to Roman territory and not attack other AI's cities), the player will not be able to force his way into core territories of Germania and none of Scythia anyway ;).
 
Increased movement for the later barbarian units will indeed make them MUCH more of a threat. Don't get too carried away with increasing their stats; an extra movement point can make all the difference! ;) And for the Pictish raiders...make sure they cost a decent amount of shields if they aren't going to take pop. to create! Wouldn't want TOO many of those things swarming Britain, now (since it was, in fact, the Anglo-Saxons that sailed over and took over Britain)!
 
Are you still planning on giving the barbs Hidden Nationality Settlers that can settle in Roman territory? That sounds like a really good idea (for gameplay and history).
 
I never heard anything back about my inability to upgrade units. Am I missing something if no one else is having this problem? It is the triumphus that allows upgrades, correct? Are the costs for it astronomical and I just haven't collected enough coin for it? I have a ton of Praetorians sitting around Rome that I'd like to get out there but I can't upgrade them.
 
@Jobiwan
It works great for the player, you can create cities in enemy territory without having to declare war, but the stupid AI just won't do it. It just move it settlers toward a empty area out of Roman influence... :( It would have been great otherwise!

@Mungman
Triumphus are your civ barrack in RFRE. You can also always upgrade troops in your capital (the palace is a barrack too). Costs are high but not that much for normal units. For the Praetorian, on the other hand, yes, it is pretty expensive and you need to save about 440 gold per unit. The Cohortes Imperatoriae are just too good, and you have to pay for that :)
 
One thing you could do about the settlers:

Make some of the northern terrain a "landmark terrain" that doesn't allow cities. That way, the barbarians would be more likely to settle in your area.
 
Another minor problem is that when the cities celebrate "we love the ruler" days, the little popup just says "We love the " day celebrated. The title appears to be blank. Since all the Roman governments have their proper titles filled in, I haven't a clue what's causing this.
 
Also, to decrease the insane amount of money that the Roman player gets in the later time of the Empire, try decreasing the value of Wealth (Opes). A city with just 20 shields (pretty average in the later times of the Empire) can produce 10 extra wealth by producing Opes. That's quite a bit of extra gold from just one average city switching over to Opes!
 
Pink, a new patch would be nice, whenever possible... I've made so many changes (some to anticipate and test the new patch and some my own) I don't know where to begin with realignment of my version for testing =o) Thanks
 
I'm finding it pretty easy to fend off any invasions by the Scythians because of the chokepoint near Tomis (NE Dacia). There's Swamps on one side, and mountains on the other, just leaving a small path that can easily be blocked by some roads, a fort, and some soldiers sitting in the fort. Since the AI generally is too scared to actually attack the Legions inside the forts, it has to go around thru Germanian territory to get to Roman territory. With the AI being as dumb as it is, I'm sure the Scythians will then send their horse archers to go hunting down German non-invisible units. Maybe allow the Scythian horse archers (including Atilla's raiders) to enter marshes, thus making Dacia pretty hard to hold on to? Dacia should be lost fairly easily anyways. And don't forget to give the extra movement point to the Scythian horse riders as well! :D

Here's a picture of the area:
 

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When I built the Constantinopolis wonder, the game crashed because it was missing the entry for the wonder. When I tried to fix it, it seemed that the Wonder splash wasn't there either.

After building the Constantinopolis wonder, I was able to relocate the capitol at Constantinople. However, even tho the price of the Palace is only 50 shields, it takes Constantinople 25 turns to make the Palace (producing 20 shields per turn)! Anyone know why?
 
i would bet it has to do with how many cities you have, like the palace improvement in the reg game. if your empire is enormous it takes much longer to relocate the palace
 
Maybe it's just me, but once (if) you defeat the huge Persian horde in the East, you never really get much of a challenge from them again. Maybe have the Persians get some kind of unit-spawning wonder/improvement so that there can actually be a challenge in the East after that main Persian army?

After doing some quick tests with the HN units and taking cities, I think that it won't be necessary to put Marshes under the majority of Germania and the Scythian's cities (unless, of course, you want to prevent the Roman player from taking the cities). I found out the following in my quick test with me and another civ in a locked alliance:

- The only unit(s) that I was able to attack with my normal (non-HN) units were my ally's HN units.

- Even if the unit I was attacking with was HN, I could not attack any of my ally's non-HN units or take any of its cities with any type (HN or non-HN) of my units.

So basically, the only problem we'll really be running into is the barbarian's HN units killing eachother's non-HN units if they get close to eachother. So really, not much of a problem at all!

P.S. Please don't let the Eastern civs (e.g. Persia) see invisible! They'll be able to see Rome's assassins/spies that are made later in the game.
 
What is the incentive for switching from mercenary legions to stratiotes? the 2 atk for 1 more pop is ok, but you have to pay support cost for stratiotes. I thought the point of the thematic system was so that they don't require support or less than before...
 
ThomAnder,

Hmm, according to the Civilopedia, they don't require support. Might have been a mistake by pink that he checked their "Requires support" flag. Also, pink, are the Stratiotes going to receive the extra HP bonus as well (+2 HP total) since they cost 2 pop.?
 
Ok, thanks for the last batch of comments :). I will try to post the new patch today but with Jobiwan's new units, it is 20MB big and thus will be pending for Thundefall's approval and action.

- I have no idea what cause the odd message for we love the ruler thing. I must have altered a wrong part in the script.
- I have worked on many ways to already reduce the wealth and opulence of imperial Rome, but indeed opes will be changed from a 2shields/1gold ratio to 6shields/1gold (3/1 when commerce is discovered)
- Missing Constantinople splash added
- Coltrane, would reducing the price of the Palace to 0 helps?
- Clibanarii (late Sassanid unit) cost will be put down (no pop cost) - I will not add a wonder for them at this stage, and they will get a draft rate of 2 for Clibanarii only (other monarchy will not have any draftable unit).
- Passage near Tomi slightly enlarged, Scythians are encouraged to go through the Carphates actually.
- During my own test (not involving myself but the AI civ), I ran into a problem: invisible HN units didn't seem invisible at all and were attacked and destroyed quickly. These 2 where in locked alliance too. My immediate remedy (for this patch) has been to divide to zones for invasion in 2. The west/center for Germania, and the east for Scythia. Attila will be visiting Dacia and then likely move either to Moesia or Italia... Historically ok, but the Catalaunic fields are a long way...
- @Tomander, Randy: Stratiotes originally had free upkeep but they have become so good that I don't think they should be anymore. They can be drafted (2 per turns) too and indeed have now a 2HP bonus like all legions. Currently they are A9, D6, M1 while the merc legion have A6, D6, M1. Ah, both costs are now 2 pop! The point about the thematic system requiring no support is nonetheless a good one, and since the stratiotes comes at the very end of the game, I don't mind unchecking the required support flag.

Incoming version has some very major changes, but in all I hope most of the issues (excessive wealth and power during imperial times, research costs, weak barbarian invasions) will all be addressed. We might need to tweak these new changes but patch 0.8 is hopefully the last big one before we get a working 1.0 :)
 
I played v7.0 over the weekend and wanted to add a few more comments before you finalized v8.0....

The scientific advances demoninated by year got stuck on 206-256 AD. Up until then, as soon as the timeline hit the final year of the advances, I automatically received the knowledge. I achieved the Byzantine Legacy tech (the last one before you go to future tech) in 366 AD but then instead of going to future techs I was forced to start researching 206-256 AD.

I learned the Crisis of the Third Century tech in the early second century AD. I wasn't using more than 40-60% tech research at any time, and my empire wasn't all that big, so if we could make the techs a little longer to research or throw in a couple extra techs, that would be good.

The Constantinople Wonder was missing WON_SPLASH_BLDG_HELEN and caused the game to crash. That wonder seems very expensive in shield costs and takes forever to build in a city so far from Rome. I had numerous corruption reducing improvements in Byzantium but was only getting about three shields of production per turn.

The city employee function Administrator(?) -- the guy who is supposed to reduce corruption -- causes the game to crash. I did not get any text message; the game just exited and went to Windows. The creash occurred when I attempted to change a person from entertainer or philosopher or taxman to administrator.

I found a solution the the Straits of Gibraltar issue that I mentioned early. You can use a Colonus to build a city on the hill that is blocking the passageway. Then your ships can sail through (although I never found a need to do that).

I tried using my Speculatores to attack a city (not a city with a marsh under it) but they could not do it. Was that on purpose? If so, okay, but I don't think the Civilopedia mentioned that those particular units could not attack cities.

Unless there is a Speculatores near them, Pictii are always invisible. Can they be made to show up when actually attacking or defending? It would be similar to what happens with the Assasin unit icon from the original Middle Ages Conquest.
 
Hi gringoesteban,

-If you got the last Roman tech (Heraclius' Reform) sometime between 206 and 256AC, then all is 'fine', besides the fact the advances' cost is too low. Future tech will not be available until you have discovered all the advances on the 3 eras. Can't change that. In next version, there should be no way for the player to finish the Roman advances before 550AC.
-I will check out the administrator bug.
-From now on, since all late barb will be invisible, all regular Roman units will be able to see hidden units.
 
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