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Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

  1. Das Boat

    Das Boat Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    United States
    Scythia could potentially pose a threat if Armenia is dealt with. Who says Attila can't swing south?
     
  2. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

    Joined:
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    up yours!
    My point exactly.
     
  3. devilsadvocate

    devilsadvocate Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    Ive never tried persia per se, but after modding the map a little to make it possible to get to Thevesta, I was able to build enough ballistae to swamp the Praes. parthicum in the city.

    However, I would tend to believe that the "Persian Heartland" tiles (where cities like ecbatana, persepolis, etc are) are unpassable. Are they? If so, Persia proper is untakable.
     
  4. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

    Joined:
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    up yours!
    Open the .biq file with the editor and see for yourself.
     
  5. Stazro

    Stazro Prince

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    at the shores of Rhine
    I disagree with that. This mod or rather scenario tries to closely follow the history of Rome, to the extent that the given technology allows us. Rome never conquered Persia. In fact it never really was close to. Adding India and the White Huns would require disproportionate effort and loading time increases all to accomodate a far fetched alternative history scenario.

    He could, but he didn't. Leaving a decision of such a magnitude open to chance would in my opinion be inconsistent with the spirit of the mod.

    It has been possible to conquer Persia and I'm not aware that this has changed fundamentally since then. I could be wrong about that though.
     
  6. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

    Joined:
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    up yours!
    Oh, I was joking, silly.
     
  7. Stazro

    Stazro Prince

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
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    436
    Location:
    at the shores of Rhine
    One never knows on the internetz. :crazyeye:
     
  8. areon

    areon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    There's another way to keep your eastern empire secure without conquering Persia. Give those useless cities(pretty much any non-coastal one east of Trebizond and Antioch) from corruption to Armenia and Persia won't be able to resist attacking them. Then you can move in and attack their forces which will be spread out without any defenders. Give the cities back to Armenia rinse/repeat. It also helps cut down the micro-managing of more territory that doesn't provide much even when you move the capitol.
     
  9. Anglophile

    Anglophile Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2001
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Philly USA
    What an extension of the Persian Empire does is make the conquest of Persia essentially impossible - as it would have been unless Trajan had given it a go when still young. Hadrian made the call no further, abandoned Mesopatamia and forever changed the Empire from expansive to defensive. The extension of the Persian Empire also makes the defense of whatever are the final lines more difficult as the Persians are bigger, stronger, richer, etc.

    One of the issues with RFRE is that the barbarians and Persians are not necessarily strong enough to defeat the Roman Empire as long as one keeps a strong military (the AI does not do a good job of multiple losing attacks against a strong army to finally get a final series of winning attacks). And any competent player will still have a bunch of Imperial legions around for the entire game, along with the very good cavalry and Praetorians one gets later. So increasing their size increases the pressure that the Romans are under from 200 AD on and feels more realistic. Otherwise the last few centuries look more like WWI along the Danube, Rhine and Tigris/Euphrates than the more fluid conditions than actually existed. So I'm playing on a bigger map and the Goths, Scythians, Germans and Persians all have many more cities they do in the original.
     
  10. King Coltrane

    King Coltrane King

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    723
    Location:
    NY
    not sure if anyone is still playing this old gem, but i decided to have another go.

    i expanded fast with much smaller "armies" than i usually do. rarely more than 5-7 per stack. i blitzed through carthage and took the entire domain without once stopping for peace. macedon declared war on me VERY early (same turn as carthage first did) and sent stacks of hoplites and cataphracts up to northern italy. while this seemed daunting at first, i realized this would give me lots of servii earlier than usual, and give me lots of elite legios who would otherwise simply sit and wait for hannibal. i got as much of the indy greeks as i could to ally with me against macedon, so they would wear each other out. and once the aetolian league (my allies) fell, i landed troops. through a combination of luck and planning i managed to land a pretty strong force in greece at the same time as my other force in spain (africa had already fallen), which was about 230 BC at the latest. after defeating the barca brothers and taking the final carthaginian strongholds, i took out magna graecia with several independent stacks (via cumbae), while simultaneously taking the rest of northern italy and Thrace. (~200 BC) splitting forces again, i attacked spain, pergamum, and illyria (from north and south). next, i let the seleukids and bithynians waste their forces on my single stronghold, then blitzed north up to pontus and south-east until i controlled every seleukid city. next was a simultaneous declaration on egypt and pontus. i allied with galatia and armenia and was lucky enough that the former was taken out. i rolled through pontus, soaked up the egyptian hordes (which was slow going), pressed down the nile, and wrapped up my spanish campaign at about the same time. (after, i took nabataea in about 3 turns). at this point i realized how far ahead i was and wanted to see how much i could do. Gaul declared was on me and i had a pretty easy time of taking their jabs and pushing back, roading along the way.

    just for perspective: at 140 BC I made it to Paris. when i built the lex agraria, i was able to grant citizenship from Seleukia in the southeast to Lutetia in the northwest. the best part about this is building triumphal arches VERY close to your eventual permanent borders (quick upgrades, healing etc). another notable thing in this game is that i was so fast that i built the naval Pompey wonder IN BELGIUM. i figured, why not have a free navy in this theater? also, all the conquests other than gaul were done with the original legio. i got the marian reforms halfway through egypt, so there was no need.

    next, i had an early war against germany (to preempt their stronger units) and took the usual settlements, as well as 2 for the peace treaty. however, the real wrench in the works was that germany took Tibiscum (formerly of Dacia). so i knew that i either had to eventually start another war with germany, or conquer dacia, that city, and THEN get the peace treaty. naturally i did the latter. in fact i rushed through dacian territory with one stack to take that last german city and get my peace treaty. but dacia fell quickly, way before they had falxmen. next was a quick campaign in britain (which was fun for me because im currently in london and my "Named Tribus" is also in England.) and a jugurthine war for those 3 numidian cities.

    next came the fun/daunting part. I like to conquer Persia. ALL of it. (i waited quite a while before starting. i didnt begin until antonine golden age, as you cant conquer persia without the cohortes imperatoria.

    all my armies (as in consular, caesar, etc) were brought to seleukia. i also brought pretty much every legio and allied hoplite (totaling i think ~90 legios, and ~70 hoplites), as well as 10ish numidian mercenaries, and about 20 allied celtic cavalry.

    I had tons of money at this point, so upgraded all legios to imperial, all hoplites to miles auxiliarius, and built up 60 catapults. the other thing you need are at least a 20 servii.

    anyway, i declared war, let them come, but through to undefended cities behind the front. (did this with the cohortes imperatoria so they wouldnt attack frontline cities.) i had advanced with all catapults and a few cohortes the turn before and took Ctesiphon for the roads. but their stack was huge. about 80 of each parthian horse archer, so 160 ish total units (i counted later) all together, 3 squares north of babylon. but i was ready. i sent my servii to block all neighboring tiles, allowing my 1 move legios to destroy their faster cavalry. it was the most satisfying battle ive fought in civ. it was my carrhae and cannae rolled up into one masterstroke.

    i destroyed every unit.

    and then, because i was only 1 move from a triumphal arch, i could heal everything within 2 turns. but i didnt need it. mesopotamia was a breeze for the cohortes and numidian cav. but beyond that i found that persia had inexplicably disbanded (?) some of its 23 hp praesidia magna. literally, every city but their northernmost 4 (herat, thara, rhagae, and sarmias) was just garrisoned with archers! i blitzed through, taking all the other cities with my fast units and then went slowly, city by city with all my artillery and a few cohortes and other units, bombarding until nothing was left. i walked into each city unharmed. and before the end of my golden age i had conquered all of persia! (around 160 AD i think)

    this freed up HUGE numbers of troops, who are now guarding my northern limes (which incidentally were completed very quickly since i could send my syrian munitores up north.


    before the crisis i had about 80,000 gold, and 100 imperial legios (and a cohortes in EVERY city on the border!) and while its hitting me hard and im down to 65,000 gold (-3300 per turn) i also have another 100 mercenary legions.

    i have this very weird cat and mouse thing going with gothia though. they have all their huge forces but are looking for a way through my fortifications, unwilling to attack anything. so i open up the limes in by colonia agrippina until their troops make it close, then close it there and open the limes by the black sea. in this way, i basically have a SECONDARY WALL of gothic troops defending my border! and im happy to have them there. eventually, germany will get strong enough to think about attacking me, but to do so they will probably need to attack gothia, which will in turn make them think twice about attacking me and also (probably) destroy gothia!

    I have no idea how this will work, but its pretty fun! im a little slow (maybe 10 turns behind) because i wanted an extra legio caesaris much earlier. and im a bit worried,about the happiness issues, but i think ill make it alright. anyway, its an exciting game. ill post some pictures soon.
     
  11. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Maybe the Persian garrisons disbanded because you crippled their economy before time so they couldn't keep them?
     
  12. Keroro

    Keroro Dororo: Ninja Frog

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
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    Location:
    The Hinata Residence
    Hey King Coltrane. I'm not really playing anymore, but am happy to read about someone else doing so. Good progress there, looking forward to the screenshots. What difficulty / AI aggressiveness are you playing at?

    Are you not tempted to stay at war with the Germanics full time so that they never have a chance to build up an overwhelming force?
     
  13. Wolfshade

    Wolfshade Little Winger

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
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    981
    Location:
    Minsk, Belarus
    This scenario is absolutely great so I play it time to time. And study - technical aspect is great as well, so there are a lot of things to learn.
    One interesting technical thing in it - units consume the population. I remember there was a couple of posts from Steph reported it works incorrectly in his mod, but it works here, so there's one of examples of technical side of the scenario.
    Having a lot of coolest units from Sandris and expecting more from Imperator (I hope his gigantic pack of ~400 units he made for SPQR will be released separately from the scenario to avoid re-scaling -> palette issues - personally I don't care about the different size but care about correctness, accuracy, sense and reason), having new terrain sets - there could be a new birth of this true gem.
     
  14. King Coltrane

    King Coltrane King

    Joined:
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    @takhisis: that was my first thought too, but i dont know... before the invasion started they had about 1500 gold. they did quickly drop to 0 (must have rushed something!) but i cant imagine that they would disband ~6 of those bad boys within about 4 turns.

    @keroro: hey bud! I'm playing on hard with normal aggressiveness. And you know, i'll admit. it was tempting to do always war with germany, but a combination of factors prevented me from doing so:

    1) war weariness. It wouldnt be that bad at first, but over time would hurt, especially with the 2) crisis of the 3rd century. that hit me pretty hard. if i had a ton of war weariness from that... well i probably would have been ok, but i would have lost more money. and most importantly, 3) laziness :) I just didnt feel like having to battle troops the whole time. and its way past when i can make that choice. I have to hope for no war (otherwise it will be HELL)

    @wolfshade: one of my favorite aspects of this scenario is the technical side as well. my tech timers idea revolutionized this kind of scenario, but other aspects are brilliant too. as for the pop requirements, i remember that whole debate with steph. i think the difference here is that 1) there is also heavy auto-production for the AI and 2) they dont have to worry about diminished science/income from low population. most cities in spain, gaul, britain, and germania only have 2-4 population when you first encounter them, but it doesnt make any difference to the overall game.


    update: the goths realized i was up to the turn after i posted this hahahaha. maybe they are on civfanatics! anyway, time to cut through those praedatores (pictures later. i think ill make an AAR for the whole thing, nicely illustrated, like Stazro's)
     
  15. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    They might've rushed some units and/or buildings near the borders.
     
  16. register

    register Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
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    274
    I was trying to download a patch for this mod but links form Atomic Gamer are broken.

    I have this mod if someone want it plus patch version 1.323 8MB if someone need it but I need patch version 1.20 77MB I forgot to download before or I lost it.
     
  17. Node60

    Node60 Warlord

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    May 27, 2015
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    Location:
    West Siberia
  18. register

    register Warlord

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    Spasiba :)
     

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