Rise And Rule Revisited (epic mod)

[tjs282]

Ah, I was referring solely to a building with the "Reduces pollution from buildings" Editor-flag. If RARR also includes buildings which add 'negative' pollution-points(?), then that is slightly different.

I would guess, like you, that those negative points are simply added to (i.e. subtracted from) the town's running (building-generated) pollution-point total, and if that result becomes zero or a negative number, then building-pollution would be 'floored' at zero, prior to applying any pollution-reduction effect from a building with the "Reduces building-pollution" flag. The latter building would then likely not be worth adding to the town (at least, not for that sole purpose).

But in a Metro-sized town, a building with the "Reduces population-pollution" building still would be worth it, for the 1 (population-generated) pollution-point cap.

 

[Civinator]

As posted by tjs282, you have three groups of pollution:

1. Population pollution: For every citizen above the limit to become a metropolis you add one pollution point (skull graphics in the city screen). Mass transit limits the total down to 1 point. It can be avoided, if there are no metropolis settings (size 3 cities: In RARR. over 15 in normal C3C over 12)) in the mod/scenario.

2. Building (production-) pollution: The positive values are added and with the addition of the population pollution form the total pollution of a city. Only for the building pollution, negative settings are reducing that value. The population pollution is not touched by negative pollution values. The recycling center only limits the building pollution down to 1 point.

3. The third group (nukes) and volcanoes can only be influenced by not using nukes and very high intervalls in the setting of volcanoes in the game.

Conclusions:

Negative pollution values of buildings can not eliminate pollution in total, as always population pollution (and may be group 3 pollution) can appear.

Pollution reducing buildings for building pollution and for population pollution alone can never eliminate pollution in total, as they can only limit down the pollution for each of both pollution parts to one.

In CCM I eliminated population pollution by setting city sizes only to size 1 and 2 (no size 3 cities =metropolises) and building pollution by setting the pollution to negative values (and the limitation to 1). Group 3 pollution can not be completely eliminated at all, if you have volcanoes and nukes in your game.

How much pollution is in the city can be seen by the amount of skull graphics in the city screen.

 

[Takhisis]

When you eliminate a civilization, their units disappear. Would it be possible for those units to become barbarians?

This reminds me of those Total War games that allow for new rebel or barbarian factions to arise from collapsing factions. It's true that Civ3 doesn't allow it, but C7 should.

 

[ynot56]

So, as I understand it:

Cities over 15 create one pollution for each pop over 15 (e.g. Type 1). This can be limited to 1 by mass transit city improvement. It seems as if for cities over 15 this cannot be reduced.

Factory, coal plant, manufacturing plant, each seem to generate 2 pollution

Assembly plant, airport, offshore platform seem to cost 1 pollution

I think these are the only things that generate type 2 pollution.

I believe that the current pollution reducers are:
Park and Recycling Center reduce city improvement population to 1
Labor Union and Sewage Treatment Plant reduce improvement pollution by 2

I think the reducers all apply before the limiters are applied.

Seems as if the Park and Recycling Center city improvement each do the same thing. Likewise the Labor Union and the Sewage Treatment Plant seem to do the same thing. This is in spite of the fact that the later improvement is more costly.

Seems as if there needs to be some gradation. I would propose:

Parks reduce city improvement population to 2
Recycling Centers reduce city improvement to 1
Labor Unions reduce city improvement pollution by 2
Sewage Treatment Plants reduce city improvement pollution by 4.

 

[Civinator]

ynot56, there is no programmed flag in C3C reducing pollution to a max. of 2. Pollution is still kept in RARR, as I wanted to change as less as possible from the settings of the original mod RAR.

If something should be really changed with pollution, it should be cut out of the game as much as possible. Soren Johnson is right with his skillful analysis of Civ 3 at the end of his Civ 4 manual: Pollution is a very "unfun" element in the game, that causes a lot of not necessary additional micromanagement by commanding hordes of workers around the map.

In CCM population- and building pollution is practically eliminated (as written in my post above) and by setting the buildings to provide unhappiness instead of pollution.

 

[ynot56]

A couple of things I noticed.

Modern Air Defense, on the tech tree, seems to have Amphibious Warfare as a prerequisite. You can build Modern Air Defense without first researching Amphibious Warfare.

It seems kind of funny to me that you can build Computer Networks without first building Microchips.

 

[Civinator]

Modern Air Defense, on the tech tree, seems to have Amphibious Warfare as a prerequisite. You can build Modern Air Defense without first researching Amphibious Warfare.

ynot56, you reported this error long time ago: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rise-and-rule-revisited-epic-mod.549166/page-53#post-15848046
At least in my current RARR 1.7 biq this error is fixed. Without a longer search, where I don´t have the time yet, I cannot say if I had uploaded this biq.
I attache it to this post.

It seems kind of funny to me that you can build Computer Networks without first building Microchips.

This is the original RAR setting. Didn´t first computer networks for the US military exist before microchips appeared at the market ?

 

[ynot56]

Sorry about double reporting. I have 1.7, but I guess not the latest version.

Computer networks were decades after the first microchips. It was the microchips that made networking devices possible.

 

[Civinator]

Sorry about double reporting. I have 1.7, but I guess not the latest version.

No reason to be sorry as you are helping to improve RARR. The biq I posted above, was not released yet. It is an intermediate version on the way to the next version of RARR, but it is far away from that next version, cause of the great innovations of the Flintlock patch, that must be tested and integrated - but you can see your reports trigger fixes.

Computer networks were decades after the first microchips. It was the microchips that made networking devices possible.

When looking into the wikipedia, the following can be found:

• In the late 1950s, a network of computers was built for the U.S. military Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) radar system using the Bell 101 modem. It was the first commercial modem for computers, released by AT&T Corporation in 1958. The modem allowed digital data to be transmitted over regular unconditioned telephone lines at a speed of 110 bits per second (bit/s).

• The first integrated circuit or monolithic integrated circuit (also referred to as an IC, a chip, or a microchip) seems to be used by the US Air Force in 1961, when looking at the footnote 15.

 

[ManOfMiracles]

Still struggling to get this mod-mod to work. I have CCM2.5 installed and working correctly--no text problems. The text is still wonky in RARR 1.7. Beating my head against a wall now!

 

[Civinator]

Still struggling to get this mod-mod to work. I have CCM2.5 installed and working correctly--no text problems. The text is still wonky in RARR 1.7. Beating my head against a wall now!

In the textfolder of the RARR mod have you renamed the text file labels to labels1 (or something like that) and the file labels-Steam CivComplete Patch to labels?

The procedure for the steam version of Civ 3 Complete to fix wired texts must be done for every scenario and mod, that you want to play.

 

[ManOfMiracles]

Argh, I missed the one in the mod-mod. Thank you again!

 

[ynot56]

Some nits. Playing as the American, I get the Ekranoplan for the air transport and the flakpanzer for the comparable US flavored anti-air defense unit.

 

[Civinator]

Some nits. Playing as the American, I get the Ekranoplan for the air transport and the flakpanzer for the comparable US flavored anti-air defense unit.

Both units are generic units and have their correct settings for the US. The Ekranoplane is the fastest seatransport (not air transport !) available for all civs and in my eyes a very interesting unit.

The flakpanzer is the advanced generic cannon AA vehicle, coming in the upgrade chain after the M42 Duster and before the SAM vehicles. There is no Civ 3 unit for the Sergeant York available. CCM 2.50 holds the M113 Vulcan. If you want, you can replace the generic Flakpanzer for the US by that unit. I think the generic Flakpanzer is more close to the Sergeant York than the, as an AA vehicle, unexact working M113 Vulcan.

 

[kakdelaaa]

Civinator hello! the question is where are there more game units in RARR or CCM2?

 

[Civinator]

Civinator hello! the question is where are there more game units in RARR or CCM2?

kakdelaaa, welcome at CFC!

CCM 2.50 holds several additional lines of units compared to RARR (p.e. different levels of Jagdpanzers, light and medium tanks, heavy tanks, paks, super dreadnoughts and so on), so I think CCM 2.50 holds more units (but I haven´t counted them yet as all units of CCM 2.50 and RARR come from the same units pool).

 

[kakdelaaa]

Civinator thanks, I played CCM 2.50 a year ago, will there be an update? I had a problem with invisible units, they broke roads, made wars, and I had to create a scenario where I turned off their invisibility)

 

[Civinator]

There will be an update of CCM 2.50 and of RARR. The next version of both mods will be played with the Flintlock patch instead the Antal1987 exe and therefore for both mods bigger adjustments are necessary. For RARR additionally the reported errors will be fixed, with the exception of a reported freeze by Belofon, where I didn´t find the reason until now.

The invisible units in CCM (the enslaver, the holy men and the lawyer) are a big additional fun in C3C game play, as to deal with them you need more strategic thinking compared to average Civ 3 games. In the small numbers they are appearing autoproduced by buildings in CCM, they are medicine for the game, if they could be produced normally, they would be poison for the game play.

Here you can read some hints how to deal with enslavers in CCM: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-10#post-15234702

Workers can detect their 'natural' enemies, the invisible enslavers (and so on) two tiles away, a fast unit (a chariot, horseman or an own enslaver) can help to battle that foreign enslaver, especially on a tile where the enslaver has no movement bonus, and may be even to enslave that enslaver. 'Reading and using' the map around your cities now becomes much more important than in normal Civ 3.

 

[kakdelaaa]

Civinator when will the update come out? known date?

 

[kakdelaaa]

I don't like invisible units, because they spoil the aesthetics, all countries remain without roads))) just cities that have nothing to do with other cities) because. communication with them is destroyed by the invisible