Rise from Erebus 1.30 Bug Thread
- Thread starter Valkrionn
- Start date
KrugSmash
Warlord
Hm, did this just recently get unstickied, or is the beer making me forget that it was never sticked in the first place?
VlaDeatHell
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2009
- Messages
- 18
Nope, no hidden nationality or anything like that, plain old recon with subdue. I think it's just disabled for the current version. Anyone can verify this and/or explain how it can be fixed?
I have scoured google and this thread, but I have been unable to find anything.
When I play a multiplayer game it will randomly crash to the desktop, with no message detailing the error. I have only installed RifE 1.30, 1.31, and 1.31.195. It is not a reliable crash either, I have restarted a map and continued on further before it decides to crash again. There doesn't seem to be any common action on my or my partner's part that causes the crash. Single player works just fine.
We have actually used this mod a while back and had the same issue, it is what caused us to stop playing for a while.
When I play a multiplayer game it will randomly crash to the desktop, with no message detailing the error. I have only installed RifE 1.30, 1.31, and 1.31.195. It is not a reliable crash either, I have restarted a map and continued on further before it decides to crash again. There doesn't seem to be any common action on my or my partner's part that causes the crash. Single player works just fine.
We have actually used this mod a while back and had the same issue, it is what caused us to stop playing for a while.
Sounds like a memory allocation failure. Rife is cpu intensive. The only cure is to play a smaller map size.
I gave it a try, but it still crashed with a smaller map.
I kind of wonder why this hasn't been fixed though, I really hope this doesn't continue into any future builds. It ruins the experience when you can't finish a game without constantly saving and restarting the client, and though single player works, I play Civ with friends much more than on my own.
Because a developer can't "fix" a MAF. They can try very hard to reduce the likeliness of it occuring (which Snarko is doing. Yay Snarko.), but they can't get rid of them.
And how small was the "smaller map"?
I have tried the small map, with only me and one other player, and no AI. It's not like I am blaming anyone, I'm sure the issue is pretty difficult to deal with. But even if it is impossible to fix (at no fault of the programmers), it still pretty much ruins my experience, especially when I can play other games without this issue. Obviously there is a way for this not to happen since so many games out there don't have this issue, but it may require so much recoding that they may as well start from scratch. This may just be a mod I personally don't get to enjoy, since I'd never ask someone else to do what I wouldn't want to (recoding the entire thing).
As much as I friggen love the mod and all it has added, I really can't get past the fact that I can never finish a game.
The reason other games don't have that problem is (put simply) other games aren't as complex. They're simple things built heavily off base Civ IV. Look at the size of your Rife directory. Mine's 2.27GB, and even including other mods, my entire game is only 6GB big (4.7 without RIFE).
Your use of the word obviously here is insulting and, frankly, not terribly well thought out. You can make code more compact, but the sheer amount of stuff means that obviously you can't eliminate the risk of a Memory Allocation Failure, which is what happens when your machine can't handle how awesome the game has become. Rife involves more variables and data then many other games, certainly far more then base Civ or lesser mods. There are some things you can do, like closing everything else running and uncapping your RAM to devote its full attention to the game, but from the developer end there isn't a magic solution. You can only make something so efficient before you run out of ways to improve.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
What Viatos said. MAF issues are more related to the amount of art assets and game features in a mod than to the coding of said mod. If it was a coding issue, you'd see a CTD, not a MAF.
Nor'easter
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 1,936
He said he's getting the CtD only in multiplayer, not single player, so could it be an OOS error rather than a MAF? I don't play MP, so I wouldn't know, just asking.
Cromagnum P.I.
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 96
I was thinking the same thing, MP has always given me OOS errors even in the base FFH2 mod, we usually don't get crashes when doing MP though.
Freesmog
Skeptic1938222569
Obviously it's very complex. Lesslol made a post & download at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=357824&page=49
1. CvString formatting methods
- reduces memory allocations and copies
2. CvXMLLoadUtility two methods (GetHotKeyInt, CreateHotKeyFromDescription)
- rewrite searching keyboard mapping table to binary search
3. FVariableSystem methods for performance
- changes input parameter type to std::string type
- adds methods that convert C-string input to static std::string
- see CvStaticString class
I don't know if this will help Rife at all, but I've always had problems with the game not crashing after a point on larger maps (and I've always had a new system).
I don't know how much of Rife is coded in C++ but from my limited understanding significant code changes are most stable in C++ but requires more knowledge & time, than Python. It's a balancing act, and there's a reason successful games have a group of experienced, qualified, dedicated people with significant playtesting.
I'll look into the uncapping of the RAM, as it's probably done somewhere in the Civ program or Windows OS.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
The vast majority of large mechanics are done in DLL. The only python would be unit spawning for individual civs (though the odds for those systems are stored in the DLL, the formulas to calculate them are not), spells, and some small things not worth moving to the DLL.
Freesmog
Skeptic1938222569
I found this by Xyzxyz at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=411799&page=6
"I also needed reminding recently that your 8GB of RAM don't mean much. Civ IV BtS is still just a native 32-bit application, so the best it can do is make use of 4GB of your RAM, even if your comp has 8GB or more in it. The difference between running the mod on a 64-bit vs a 32-bit OS computer then is that bit (not meant literally) of memory that the OS itself takes up (which under a 64-bit system it can allocate to the 4GB (out of your 8GB) that 32-bit Civ IV BtS is NOT using). I suspect you're not helping yourself, btw, by running a lot of other application or subroutines 'behind' the game. I even disable my wireless internet and any other process that runs in the background before I start up a Civ IV BtS mod on a map larger than large. That way, you can play on Huge maps (low graphs settings, but highest 1920x1200 resolution - at least I managed to). Since the Earth map appears to be much larger than huge (from what I read), I think the MAFs should get you right around the Renaissance. Sobering. But inevitable. Try low graph settings, a very low resolution, and NOTHING else running on your comp, and you might make it to the end of the game w/ a 64-bit system and a lot of luck. I will try when I have some time."
So according to this low res and graphics actually helps prevent MAFs as well as using 64 bit Win7 (including shutting off system processes). I wonder if the speed of RAM and Chip help prevent MAFs...still browsing the internet.
Ah, found this by Markjohnson: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178&page=14
"This game will still get maf errors regardless of operating system because the game is 32-bit, so it still has memory limits.
To avoid maf errors set affinity to 1 processor only so it won't get interference from other tasks. Plus the game plays faster as well.
Make sure to run the processor editor, but it should already have the patch in 64-bit windows by default. but double check to be sure.
to set affinity:
1. Start game and minimize it (alt+tab out or maybe alt+enter)
2. start the task manager (right click the task bar and select," Start Task Manager", or press ctrl+alt+del and select, "Start Task Manager"
3.select Processes tab
4. right click CivilizationIV.exe (or whatever it's called) and select, "Set Affinity..."
5. uncheck all CPUs except 1 (doesn't matter which one)
This will reserve 1 cpu to the game only and nothing else. It should make it faster and lessen the maf error (but not eliminate it)"
Also, by bestbrian on the same page:
"Dude, you could have a Cray mainframe, the problem is with the software. Civ IV has a memory leak that was never fixed; you're going to have to periodically stop and restart. The bigger the map = more stuff to do = shorter time between reloads."
By Lemon Merchant at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178&page=13
"Just FYI, it isn't "outdated core components" in mods that cause the problem. Modder's can't change the game's graphics engine. That code was never released to the public, because it is proprietary. We can change the art files, and how the game works by Python, XML, and C++, but the underlying "core components" remain the same, and they were written in 2005, before machines commonly used more than 2 GB. The game was written for older technology, and the amount of memory used by the game is substantial. Add in the notorious memory leak, and you have a MAF just waiting to happen.
Running a very large mod with a huge map is known to cause issues. The computer has to hold a lot of things in memory, and paging out the graphics card RAM just adds to that. In most cases, it just causes things to slow down as more units must be paged in and out of memory, but eventually the user potentially hits a memory wall and the game crashes. Part of this is Windows itself, and part of it is a problem with the game and how it uses memory.
There are mods that are more prone to MAFs because of their size, but most "release" version mods have had the errors checked out and dealt with. That isn't to say that the mod doesn't always cause the problem by itself, because it can, but sloppy Python/XML/C++, is usually not the cause of a MAF. That causes other, more unfortunate errors, like C++ exceptions and loading faults. BAT 2.1 had a specific issue with late game saves, and it was due to a specific unit graphic in the art files being incorrectly defined in the XML. There was no coding involved, just something out of place. Those are the types of errors we can prevent (and we do try very hard), but MAFs are another animal all together."
Plus, by JosEph II at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317648
"Right click My Computer then click on Properties.
Will bring up System Properties window, select Advanced tab.
1st section is Performance (you must be logged in as Administrator), click the Settings button.
1st tab is Visual Effects.
Default is, "Let Windows choose........my computer" ,
Instead select , "Adjust for best performance",
Or if you have some experience with Win XP , select "Custom".
After these changes select "Apply at bottom."
So hopefully Civ5 mods will be more stable.
"I also needed reminding recently that your 8GB of RAM don't mean much. Civ IV BtS is still just a native 32-bit application, so the best it can do is make use of 4GB of your RAM, even if your comp has 8GB or more in it. The difference between running the mod on a 64-bit vs a 32-bit OS computer then is that bit (not meant literally) of memory that the OS itself takes up (which under a 64-bit system it can allocate to the 4GB (out of your 8GB) that 32-bit Civ IV BtS is NOT using). I suspect you're not helping yourself, btw, by running a lot of other application or subroutines 'behind' the game. I even disable my wireless internet and any other process that runs in the background before I start up a Civ IV BtS mod on a map larger than large. That way, you can play on Huge maps (low graphs settings, but highest 1920x1200 resolution - at least I managed to). Since the Earth map appears to be much larger than huge (from what I read), I think the MAFs should get you right around the Renaissance. Sobering. But inevitable. Try low graph settings, a very low resolution, and NOTHING else running on your comp, and you might make it to the end of the game w/ a 64-bit system and a lot of luck. I will try when I have some time."
So according to this low res and graphics actually helps prevent MAFs as well as using 64 bit Win7 (including shutting off system processes). I wonder if the speed of RAM and Chip help prevent MAFs...still browsing the internet.
Ah, found this by Markjohnson: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178&page=14
"This game will still get maf errors regardless of operating system because the game is 32-bit, so it still has memory limits.
To avoid maf errors set affinity to 1 processor only so it won't get interference from other tasks. Plus the game plays faster as well.
Make sure to run the processor editor, but it should already have the patch in 64-bit windows by default. but double check to be sure.
to set affinity:
1. Start game and minimize it (alt+tab out or maybe alt+enter)
2. start the task manager (right click the task bar and select," Start Task Manager", or press ctrl+alt+del and select, "Start Task Manager"
3.select Processes tab
4. right click CivilizationIV.exe (or whatever it's called) and select, "Set Affinity..."
5. uncheck all CPUs except 1 (doesn't matter which one)
This will reserve 1 cpu to the game only and nothing else. It should make it faster and lessen the maf error (but not eliminate it)"
Also, by bestbrian on the same page:
"Dude, you could have a Cray mainframe, the problem is with the software. Civ IV has a memory leak that was never fixed; you're going to have to periodically stop and restart. The bigger the map = more stuff to do = shorter time between reloads."
By Lemon Merchant at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178&page=13
"Just FYI, it isn't "outdated core components" in mods that cause the problem. Modder's can't change the game's graphics engine. That code was never released to the public, because it is proprietary. We can change the art files, and how the game works by Python, XML, and C++, but the underlying "core components" remain the same, and they were written in 2005, before machines commonly used more than 2 GB. The game was written for older technology, and the amount of memory used by the game is substantial. Add in the notorious memory leak, and you have a MAF just waiting to happen.
Running a very large mod with a huge map is known to cause issues. The computer has to hold a lot of things in memory, and paging out the graphics card RAM just adds to that. In most cases, it just causes things to slow down as more units must be paged in and out of memory, but eventually the user potentially hits a memory wall and the game crashes. Part of this is Windows itself, and part of it is a problem with the game and how it uses memory.
There are mods that are more prone to MAFs because of their size, but most "release" version mods have had the errors checked out and dealt with. That isn't to say that the mod doesn't always cause the problem by itself, because it can, but sloppy Python/XML/C++, is usually not the cause of a MAF. That causes other, more unfortunate errors, like C++ exceptions and loading faults. BAT 2.1 had a specific issue with late game saves, and it was due to a specific unit graphic in the art files being incorrectly defined in the XML. There was no coding involved, just something out of place. Those are the types of errors we can prevent (and we do try very hard), but MAFs are another animal all together."
Plus, by JosEph II at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317648
"Right click My Computer then click on Properties.
Will bring up System Properties window, select Advanced tab.
1st section is Performance (you must be logged in as Administrator), click the Settings button.
1st tab is Visual Effects.
Default is, "Let Windows choose........my computer" ,
Instead select , "Adjust for best performance",
Or if you have some experience with Win XP , select "Custom".
After these changes select "Apply at bottom."
So hopefully Civ5 mods will be more stable.
Protip: At the top right of any post on CivFanatics is a little underlined number. If you click it, you can go to just the post in question, and direct other people there as well.
Like this.
Freesmog
Skeptic1938222569
Thanks for the tip, though in that case it only links to a single post (which is fine for the most part), however I wanted to post the info instead of having to read the links. I'm sure there are all sorts of things to improve my posting LOL.
Fyi, I didn't notice a difference using one core affinity last night, if anything it made the turn times longer (but there could be other variables like OS, RAM, CPU, etc.).
They really do think of everything. If, once you've been linked to a single post, you again look to the top right corner, you'll see it says "Thread: Thread name", and you can click the thread name to go to the thread.
Ironically, one of the easier things you could do to improve your posting would be to never use chatspeak. Ever. Or I will hunt you down.
...Just kidding
I am not kidding. No-one can hide forever.Similar threads
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