(Rising Tides) Hybrid-Affinities

[GenEngineer]

@Westwall - And yet, there is literally no other reason they wouldn't be included. There's no mechanically ideas they need to come up with, just use existing ones. It's either they just decided not to go all of the way for no reason (makes no sense) or they couldn't come up with design/name (makes very little sense, but more than that). With that in mind, has it been outright stated that they will not be included, or have they just not been present in the builds shown?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

@Westwall - And yet, there is literally no other reason they wouldn't be included. There's no mechanically ideas they need to come up with, just use existing ones. It's either they just decided not to go all of the way for no reason (makes no sense) or they couldn't come up with design/name (makes very little sense, but more than that). With that in mind, has it been outright stated that they will not be included, or have they just not been present in the builds shown?

Maybe they are holding hybrid air units for the second expansion? Or maybe the art team originally planned to do hybrids for all baseic units but focused too much on some of the ultimate units like the Golem and ran out of time/resources to do hybrid air and carrier units? Or maybe the devs just made a design decision that hybrids had enough in the game and some parts like air and carriers should remain just for the core affinities?

 

[Westwall]

With that in mind, has it been outright stated that they will not be included, or have they just not been present in the builds shown?

One of the lead designers outright said they wouldn't be in the game.

 

[Galgus]

Right. I think there's a lot of potential here and I have more faith in hybridization than I did when they first introduced the idea - mostly because now it seems to speak more to an actual sense of vision on the part of the developers.

But it's as you say, they need to evolve the concept and see it through. They went this far with the design and theory behind it all, but still don't want to make that leap into hybrid victories or even hybrid air units?

And just as an aside, this will probably never happen but I've wondered a lot about an affinity or hybrid affinity where humans and machines work together as equals, neither necessarily merging (Supremacy) or having a master-tool/slave relationship (Supremacy/Purity).

Just a thought.

That could be Purity / Supremacy honestly, with human like robots created as servants but eventually being seen as equals.

 

[Westwall]

That'll just be my own personal headcanon.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who made the aesthetic connection to Grey Goo.

 

[oldag07]

Seems like most of the new special units are land based. Will there be ultimate/special units that are hover based? (with the exception of the air surpremacy/harmony air carrier)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I noticed a P/S and a P/H hovering unit in the intro to the Livestream which were not the cavalry units, but I suspect they were the siege units.

 

[Natura]

@Westwall - And yet, there is literally no other reason they wouldn't be included.

Running out of time is the explanation I'm going with. Same reason there appears to be no hybrid upgrades for Submarines.

It does worry me a little, since there's a Hybrid unit based around using aircraft, it feels very rushed to be getting the game out the door without Hybrid aircraft. It's a bit like how the game launched with no anti-air ground unit.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Is it feasible to alter someone like that after they are grown?

I'd think that kind of thing would need to be engineered before birth.

If you can engineer that stuff, then yeah... it would just be harder (and if you are massively rearranging human DNA anyways, you might rearrange it for easier rearrangement)

 

[Westwall]

It's a bit like how the game launched with no anti-air ground unit.

And still doesn't have one...

 

[VCrakeV]

I'm just thinking (and hoping) that everything can be fixed through mods. Hybrid air units could be made (maybe just a mish-mash of existing models). I doubt that new victories could be modded easily, but modders could create alternative requirements for existing victories, so that a medium amount of two affinities could work. But new victories would still be preferable.



Seems like Rising Tide will just create more problems for modders to fix. 😔

 

[Westwall]

That's assuming the modders care enough in the first place.

The interest has to be there, and hopefully this expansion will reel 'em back.

 

[GenEngineer]

On a note related to how the Hybrids will balance having access to 3 sets of perks/units/buildings to play with instead of one, what would people think of this - on gaining your first level of affinity, you're taken to the perks screen and given the option to 'choose' an affinity (hybrid options selected). For as long as that affinities selected, you can only build units and buildings unique to what you've selected, and those would be the only perks selected. However, you could change you're chosen affinity at any time, for an amount of diplomatic capital linked to either you're progress in what you're switching away from or switching towards (representing you're ability to persuade you're people to a new ideology). Existing buildings and units wouldn't be destroyed, but they'd be like ones from a captured city/espionage recruitment - you can't replace them, so make them count.

 

[Meyerm]

My biggest issue with BE in general as well as hybrid affinities is how mismatched everything looks late-game. Every visual aspect of a civ should be altered based on affinity. City structures, civilian units, improvements, etc. Like how civilian units and structures changed appearance in civ5 when you advanced through the eras. I also want to see this with hybrid affinities as well. From the video, it can be seen that cities still have a mix of structures from the chosen affinities, but it would look nicer and blend if hybrid affinities passively affected appearance of other things as well.

 

[Westwall]

I'd also like to see those changes. Believe me, I would.

That's why I'm absolutely confounded by comments that insist the developers have gone far enough.

Uh no, they're basically inviting us to ask questions as to why hybridization doesn't affect more than just certain units.

One gets the feeling that they're hesitant to make them feel too much like their own affinities... and yet they gave them a completely new (and quite refreshing) art direction instead of just making units that looks like an awkward fusion between affinities.

And that's really a stroke of genius on their part. Seriously, it's pure genius. Not only does it make hybrid affinities feel more distinct, it makes them far more interesting than I'm sure most people were expecting.

So to take us on this journey of sorts - where we're introduced to these hybrid paths and what they mean, and how they differentiate from the core affinities and really show us how much thought was put into them - and then suddenly say, "but no, these won't affect leaders, cities, victories or even air units" feels like stopping just short of the finish line.

I mean come on, you guys were on a roll!

 

[Galgus]

I'd also like to see those changes. Believe me, I would.

That's why I'm absolutely confounded by comments that insist the developers have gone far enough.

Uh no, they're basically inviting us to ask questions as to why hybridization doesn't affect more than just certain units.

One gets the feeling that they're hesitant to make them feel too much like their own affinities... and yet they gave them a completely new (and quite refreshing) art direction instead of just making units that looks like an awkward fusion between affinities.

And that's really a stroke of genius on their part. Seriously, it's pure genius. Not only does it make hybrid affinities feel more distinct, it makes them far more interesting than I'm sure most people were expecting.

So to take us on this journey of sorts - where we're introduced to these hybrid paths and what they mean, and how they differentiate from the core affinities and really show us how much thought was put into them - and then suddenly say, "but no, these won't affect leaders, cities, victories or even air units" feels like stopping just short of the finish line.

I mean come on, you guys were on a roll!

That generally sums up my views on Beyond Earth and what I know of Rising Tide.

Many ingenious ideas that are either not developed enough or are designed too timidly.

Like the game just needs some bolder design moves and fleshing out to the be best Civ game ever made.
_____________________________________________________________________________

This makes me simultaneously like the game while feeling disappointed in it.

(And my lightweight, lua-forsaken modding knowledge.)

I am eager to see how modders use the new systems, though.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

That's why I'm absolutely confounded by comments that insist the developers have gone far enough.

Maybe, because the devs gave us 20 fully detailed and rendered new hybrid units, including 9 unique hybrid units that push the envelope for a civ game in a big way, on top of a radically new diplomacy system, new water cities that move, new quests, new buildings, new wonders, new victory movies, new UI art, new sponsors etc...

Now if after you play the game, you feel like gameplay is completely lacking because you don't have hybrid air units, fine, come back here, and say that the devs should have gone further. I suspect 20 new units, including 9 unique units will add enough to make gameplay a lot more fun.

 

[Westwall]

Do you even see how that sounds?

"X fully detailed and rendered new hybrid units, including X unique hybrid, etc. etc."

And yet in all that, they couldn't add a few hybrid air units and city designs to round it off?

I asked it before and I'll ask it again.

Why not?

Again, it's great stuff. I'm in full agreement on that front. Absolutely. Categorically. 100% agree with you that this is awesome. They added so much and really made us think about these hybrids and want to know more.

Then, just as they're really getting us excited, they stop just short of the finish line by telling us "Well we did this with hybrids... but not this."

If they'd offered an explanation for why, whether it was a design choice or even just saying it's something they plan to consider in the future but just not at this time, that would be leagues better than hearing "I don't believe... aircraft... have hybrid upgrades."

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Do you even see how that sounds?

"X fully detailed and rendered new hybrid units, including X unique hybrid, etc. etc."

And yet in all that, they couldn't add a few hybrid air units and city designs to round it off?

I asked it before and I'll ask it again.

Why not?

Again, it's great stuff. I'm in full agreement on that front. Absolutely. Categorically. 100% agree with you that this is awesome. They added so much and really made us think about these hybrids and want to know more.

Then, just as they're really getting us excited, they stop just short of the finish line by telling us "Well we did this with hybrids... but not this."

If they'd offered an explanation for why, whether it was a design choice or even just saying it's something they plan to consider in the future but just not at this time, that would be leagues better than hearing "I don't believe... aircraft... have hybrid upgrades."

I think you're expecting too much, I seriously do.

City Hybrids would give nothing to the game-play, it is a strictly aesthetic change you desire, something that is a low priority.

Hybrid Air units however. I don't think they can do anything new with them. I give you an opportunity to come up with 1 air unit that is unique that does not stray too far away from being an air unit. The only thing i can think of is using air unit to fight Oribtal units but other than that I can't think of a single thing that could be made.

Personally I am just happy with what they given us and I feel it's just greedy. It's not necessairly, they have given us and you just want more without it being necessary.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

If they'd offered an explanation for why, whether it was a design choice or even just saying it's something they plan to consider in the future but just not at this time, that would be leagues better than hearing "I don't believe... aircraft... have hybrid upgrades."

I doubt that any explanation would be acceptable to you. If they say it is a conscious design choice, you will say that they don't understand good game design. If they say that they honestly just forgot or ran out of time, you will say they are incompetent and if they say that they are holding them back on purpose for a 3rd expansion, then you will call them greedy.