(Rising Tides) Hybrid-Affinities

[Galgus]

It looks more like a tank to me, but so does their other vehicle.

Aside not being very impressive, it doesn't seem like it would fit its theme of genetic engineering well.

If anything the Immortal would be more iconic for their ultimate unit, though it's not really big enough.

 

[DefiantMars]

It looks more like a tank to me, but so does their other vehicle.

Aside not being very impressive, it doesn't seem like it would fit its theme of genetic engineering well.

If anything the Immortal would be more iconic for their ultimate unit, though it's not really big enough.

I don't know. The idea of a 10-12 foot tall super human going toe to toe with a Xeno Titan or LEV Destroyer amuses me. And I think it would capture their ideals well.

 

[Galgus]

Heh, it would take an army of them to stand against either of those units.

Both of them are frankly huge - using the helipad on the LEV Destroyer as a scale.

A Battlesuit squad would be more than a match for them, with their extremely heavy power armor.

 

[Westwall]

Supremacy - Endless Voyage

Construct a massive, self-sustaining spacecraft capable of harvesting and colonizing new worlds regardless of atmosphere.

Man I really like this idea.

Emancipation being the main victory option for Supremacy players always seemed a bit goofy to me.

Short-sighted even.

I can't imagine the ultimate machine mind caring much about Earth or the humanity we left behind.

 

[Galgus]

Mostly I like it because it emphasizes their ideal of detachment from the environment.

They can exist on self-sufficient ships easier than the other affinities could, and so they need to be less tied to planets.
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Before Starships came out as a relatively shallow and simple game, I was hoping each Affinity would use planets differently in some way.

Harmony would really invest in a handful of worlds, with biological engineering giving them massive advantages on lush worlds and helping them develop them.

Supremacy would be the opposite, basically focused around huge, moving stations with quickly setup mining operations that they wouldn't bother to invest much in.

Purity would be a middle ground of sorts, and focus on maintaining trade routes between planets.

 

[Stringer1313]

Mentioned this in another thread: I feel like the hybrid units should be superior because when u go the hybrid route you are essentially forsaking a peaceful victory because u r way behind on attaining the requisite pure affinity level

 

[Galgus]

Mentioned this in another thread: I feel like the hybrid units should be superior because when u go the hybrid route you are essentially forsaking a peaceful victory because u r way behind on attaining the requisite pure affinity level

And I mentioned in the other thread that, as-is, they get access to all of two affinity's buildings fairly easily, and that it would be better for them to have their own victories.

Also, Contact victory is a thing.

 

[DefiantMars]

Heh, it would take an army of them to stand against either of those units.

Both of them are frankly huge - using the helipad on the LEV Destroyer as a scale.

A Battlesuit squad would be more than a match for them, with their extremely heavy power armor.

Well if they're the tier 1 unique obviously. It's just I don't understand the Throne. And until they reveal it's background, I can't help but resent it. I feel like it should go Architect, Throne, Immortal.

I'm still hoping that the philosophies described in the stream were mainly the military approach and that the Hybrids will get more domestic components as well. That way H/P can get a hybrid terraformation focus and open up some more avenues to explore affinity conflict of both hybrid and core affinities alike.

Speaking of which what does everybody think hybrid tile improvements could look like?

 

[Stringer1313]

And I mentioned in the other thread that, as-is, they get access to all of two affinity's buildings fairly easily, and that it would be better for them to have their own victories.

Also, Contact victory is a thing.

But they won't be getting their own victories, which the developers already confirmed. So I think it's acceptable that the hybrid units are more powerful than pure affinity units. (And contact as it stands right now is a joke.)

I'm all for making pure affinity unique units more specialized, but I feel like hybrid strategies seem focused on domination.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I could see the P/S having something like a Terrascape dutifully maintained by robotic caretakers.

H/S would have bizarre giant fungi... things that generate super-nutritious food paste.

P/H would have a sort of a physical fitness space where they can exercise superhuman feats.

 

[Stringer1313]

Unique buildings for hybrids (and pure affinities), that r unlocked not by tech but only if achieve the requisite level, would seem to be a no brainer since buildings r not even represented by graphics. However I would hope that the unique buildings do something unique rather than add more whatever to the spreadsheet of stats.

 

[Galgus]

But they won't be getting their own victories, which the developers already confirmed. So I think it's acceptable that the hybrid units are more powerful than pure affinity units. (And contact as it stands right now is a joke.)

I'm all for making pure affinity unique units more specialized, but I feel like hybrid strategies seem focused on domination.

What does it matter if they have their own victories, from a balance perspective, if they can still win peacefully with Contact?

Isn't Contact available for an early win with a bit of luck?

Aside a blantantly stronger military dumbing the game and the balance down, they do still have two affinity buildings sets and tech boosts to work with.

 

[Westwall]

What does it matter if they have their own victories, from a balance perspective, if they can still win peacefully with Contact?

Hybrids not having their own victories is pretty lame to be honest.

Yes, they opt for these divergent courses of evolution... but can still only win the same way as the affinities from which they're trying to differentiate themselves?

For example, I can't imagine followers of Harmony/Purity - who see themselves as divine - caring if inferior, un-enhanced earthlings make it onto the new planet.

The devs talk a big game about the new philosophies of these hybrid affinities, but again they're placing all the emphasis on the units.

Hybridization, like the core affinities, should permeate throughout the entire experience and in all aspects of gameplay.

 

[Galgus]

@Westwall

I completely agree that they should have their own victories, but I don't think it justifies arbitrarily making their military stronger.

In my opinion the core affinities and the hybrids could and should be taken much further.

 

[Galgus]

Well if they're the tier 1 unique obviously. It's just I don't understand the Throne. And until they reveal it's background, I can't help but resent it. I feel like it should go Architect, Throne, Immortal.

I'm still hoping that the philosophies described in the stream were mainly the military approach and that the Hybrids will get more domestic components as well. That way H/P can get a hybrid terraformation focus and open up some more avenues to explore affinity conflict of both hybrid and core affinities alike.

Speaking of which what does everybody think hybrid tile improvements could look like?

If the bonuses are open-ended as they seem to be, the hybrids will probably just use what their parent affinities use.

Which isn't very interesting and could cause balance problems.

 

[DefiantMars]

Hybrids not having their own victories is pretty lame to be honest.

Yes, they opt for these divergent courses of evolution... but can still only win the same way as the affinities from which they're trying to differentiate themselves?

For example, I can't imagine followers of Harmony/Purity - who see themselves as divine - caring if inferior, un-enhanced earthlings make it onto the new planet.

The devs talk a big game about the new philosophies of these hybrid affinities, but again they're placing all the emphasis on the units.

Hybridization, like the core affinities, should permeate throughout the entire experience and in all aspects of gameplay.

It does indeed seem rather nonsensical. Especially with how the current Victories play out from a storytelling perspective.

I agree that they seem to be falling into the same trap as what happened with the core affinities. With the new affinity level bonuses, the core affinities are getting a degree of focus on the domestic side of things.

Unfortunately It's a design pitfall that is really easy to fall into. You have your intent, but miss your mark. It almost almost always takes several iterations to make a concept come into its own. Rarely will you ever have the "napkin sketch" that becomes the final design.

If Hybrids are meant to be their own affinities, they need to be treated as such. They have a solid baseline but there are still some holes or weak spots in the delivery and identity of the hybrids and a bit less with the cores.

 

[Westwall]

Right. I think there's a lot of potential here and I have more faith in hybridization than I did when they first introduced the idea - mostly because now it seems to speak more to an actual sense of vision on the part of the developers.

But it's as you say, they need to evolve the concept and see it through. They went this far with the design and theory behind it all, but still don't want to make that leap into hybrid victories or even hybrid air units?

And just as an aside, this will probably never happen but I've wondered a lot about an affinity or hybrid affinity where humans and machines work together as equals, neither necessarily merging (Supremacy) or having a master-tool/slave relationship (Supremacy/Purity).

Just a thought.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Hybridization, like the core affinities, should permeate throughout the entire experience and in all aspects of gameplay.

And they kinda do. Remember that a hybrid is by definition when you have the same level in 2 affinities. If I am level 5 in both Purity and Supremacy, I will get the level 2 and level 5 bonuses of both purity and supremacy as well as the hybrid bonus. So a level 5 Purity-Supremacy will get all these bonuses:
+20% Strength and Ranged Strength when attacking or defending against Aliens.
+1 energy and +1 culture from floatstone
Explorer Units can build an additional Expedition
Orbital Coverage on and next to any tile with Firaxite
+10 Energy
Unhealth from global size of Population reduced by 25%

These bonuses affect many aspects of the game from bonus to units to bonuses to resources, to extra energy and health.

The thing is that hybrid affinities were designed to add interesting strategies for players who choose to spread their affinity points in more than one affinity. If you say that hybrid affinities should be there own affinity then you are defeating that purpose because instead of rewarding the player for spreading their affinity points, you are just creating a new affinity for them to devote all their affinity points to.

 

[GenEngineer]

Right. I think there's a lot of potential here and I have more faith in hybridization than I did when they first introduced the idea - mostly because now it seems to speak more to an actual sense of vision on the part of the developers.

But it's as you say, they need to evolve the concept and see it through. They went this far with the design and theory behind it all, but still don't want to make that leap into hybrid victories or even hybrid air units?

i think part of it is just that they are still meant to be hybrids of the affinities, new ones that are in between. So rather than giving them unique victories, they still have to take from one of the actual affinities - not saying I agree with the decision, but I can understand the reasoning. As for the lack of planes/carriers/subs, the more I think about it, the more I've come to believe that it's from an aesthetic point that the they don't have them, not a mechanical one. It may be that they couldn't come up with a name and model design for them, and that's why they're missing, since the only real distinction a Purity/Supremacy Tier 4 Plane would have from a Supremacy Tier 4 Plane is that, on upgrade, one of the options for perks would be different and the same as for Purity.

With that in mind, I'm still hopeful that those affinity units will eventually make it into the game, although it might be through mods adding in the models instead of being in at release.

 

[Westwall]

The thing is that hybrid affinities were designed to add interesting strategies for players who choose to spread their affinity points in more than one affinity. If you say that hybrid affinities should be there own affinity then you are defeating that purpose because instead of rewarding the player for spreading their affinity points, you are just creating a new affinity for them to devote all their affinity points to.

That's fine, keep them hybrid. I still don't think that should preclude them from having their own names and victory conditions.

And I definitely think there should be hybrid air units.

It may be that they couldn't come up with a name and model design for them

I seriously doubt the art/design team is suddenly finding itself creatively bankrupt if they could go this far with the concept.