Wait a minute, what about using a great engineer for a world wonder? Sure this wouldn't work for very expensive wonders but for the cheap-o early ones you could build it in one turn just like building a shrine!
Role Play Challenge: Napolean, The Arrogant French
- Thread starter madscientist
- Start date
Wait a minute, what about using a great engineer for a world wonder? Sure this wouldn't work for very expensive wonders but for the cheap-o early ones you could build it in one turn just like building a shrine!
Actually... not. Rushing the wonder with a GE still "wastes" one turn, because you don't finish the wonder instantly. You still have to push enter once after rushing with a GE.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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I wouldn't want to build wonders in this RPC anyway, I'd want to expand my size/power so that I could take them.
IMO the ideal approach is to rush/smack down enough of neighbors to get pretty big, then try to run away in tech...should be possible on monarch. Possibly even taking democracy with liberalism.
Once he gets there he can just build any remaining wonders as a tech lead with a size advantage should let him. Once he's got most of that shored up he can just go around and take any remaining wonder cities.
I'm not going to shadow this, the combination of constantly looking for wonder hunts, not using cottages, and being careful to avoid victory conditions early and maybe even attacking the AIs seems like an exercise in frustration for me.
If I WERE to do it, I'd probably wind up taking wonder cities + whatever it takes to capitulate a civ, then since that's off just taking peace once they're crippled...weak sauce backwards civs don't usually attack if they're far behind in power + tech...and it wouldn't matter if they did as you could repel them from the output from 1 city. Once all holy cities + wonders were captured I'd just play for domination, but it's too annoying for me to actually do it.
IMO the ideal approach is to rush/smack down enough of neighbors to get pretty big, then try to run away in tech...should be possible on monarch. Possibly even taking democracy with liberalism.
Once he gets there he can just build any remaining wonders as a tech lead with a size advantage should let him. Once he's got most of that shored up he can just go around and take any remaining wonder cities.
I'm not going to shadow this, the combination of constantly looking for wonder hunts, not using cottages, and being careful to avoid victory conditions early and maybe even attacking the AIs seems like an exercise in frustration for me.
If I WERE to do it, I'd probably wind up taking wonder cities + whatever it takes to capitulate a civ, then since that's off just taking peace once they're crippled...weak sauce backwards civs don't usually attack if they're far behind in power + tech...and it wouldn't matter if they did as you could repel them from the output from 1 city. Once all holy cities + wonders were captured I'd just play for domination, but it's too annoying for me to actually do it.
True, technically you don't waste anything. That's why I put "waste" in quotes. The point was that the city builds the building, not the GE. If you build a shrine, the city does nothing and the GP does all the work.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
It's rare to get a GE that early anyway. Anyway if I do pop one I will hold him until democracy or just settle him.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Napoleon, the Arrogant French: Part II
The French people are purplexed by their leader's decision making. "Trust in me" he says. "Greatness requires great risks".
First the Grand French leader decides to settle close to the Greeks. VERY close! The councilor CivCorpse made an most excellent suggestion, as you shall see later
The French start researching mining and Bronze working showing
No copper Napoleon's people tell him. Not a concern, the horses shall be on-line soon.
He decides to tech writing next for libraries. The French people are getting nervous with mere clubs defending themselves, but they trust in their leader.
Some French scientists believe they can improve the health of the people and napoleon agrees.
As the horses come on-line, Napoleon get's the following requests from his generals.
Good, he says. Mass produce them, but get some barracks done first!
He then assigns the remaining techpath: hunting/archery/Horsebackriding/masonry/Iron Working. The French are a little puzzled but follow orders.
The third French city is settled and a Barbarian city pops up exactly where the NEXT city is planned. "Keep up on the chariots" Napoleon says.
Soon we have enough war chariots built
In which Napoleon gets free combat I, plus another free one from the barracks. Each chariot is now combat II from the start and were used to
That is four French cities, and yet to work on the SE game. Napoleon revolts to slavery and rushes libraries and lighthouses where needed.
Another settler is built but no city is founded until we finish teching Iron Working.
We meet another leader
Napoleon graciously acknowledges him.
And after IW.
Note the iron source in that city Rammed against Pericles border! One more is way to the south in an awkward place.
We saved here,
Tech
Pericles will trade alphabet to us for HBR and agriculture.
And the wonder situation
Too bad about the RPC rules, we could have wnderspammed like crazy here. Only Stonehenge and The Great wall have been built.
OK, looks a little crazy in our techpath. HBR was for instant military if need be. But we are set to begin warring anytime we want. But why rush! Let Pericles build some more wonders in Athens.
For now the French will expand in peace, at least until CoL and caste system for a proper Se game. We do have decisions to make
1) I only recently built our second worker. Damn I am bad at that, we need more.
2) Where to settle next?? I was planning to the south to claim furs/deer/fish but that misses the iron. I guess the river is the best, just forget the fish.
3) Now I think we REX while starting the SE from Paris. After a fe wmore cities and cheap courthouses we can start expanding north.
4) We have closed borders wtill, and plan to keep it that way.
5) Do we adopt Judaism?
6) Techpath: mysticism/meditation/priesthood/CoL but I am not sure how much I can get from trades.
7) Finally, do I pull off the HBR for alphabet trade with Pericles? He does NOT have horses, but Sury does and Pericles could trade it off.
Lot's to do yet.
The French people are purplexed by their leader's decision making. "Trust in me" he says. "Greatness requires great risks".
First the Grand French leader decides to settle close to the Greeks. VERY close! The councilor CivCorpse made an most excellent suggestion, as you shall see later
The French start researching mining and Bronze working showing
No copper Napoleon's people tell him. Not a concern, the horses shall be on-line soon.
He decides to tech writing next for libraries. The French people are getting nervous with mere clubs defending themselves, but they trust in their leader.
Some French scientists believe they can improve the health of the people and napoleon agrees.
As the horses come on-line, Napoleon get's the following requests from his generals.
Good, he says. Mass produce them, but get some barracks done first!
He then assigns the remaining techpath: hunting/archery/Horsebackriding/masonry/Iron Working. The French are a little puzzled but follow orders.
The third French city is settled and a Barbarian city pops up exactly where the NEXT city is planned. "Keep up on the chariots" Napoleon says.
Soon we have enough war chariots built
In which Napoleon gets free combat I, plus another free one from the barracks. Each chariot is now combat II from the start and were used to
That is four French cities, and yet to work on the SE game. Napoleon revolts to slavery and rushes libraries and lighthouses where needed.
Another settler is built but no city is founded until we finish teching Iron Working.
We meet another leader
Napoleon graciously acknowledges him.
And after IW.
Note the iron source in that city Rammed against Pericles border! One more is way to the south in an awkward place.
We saved here,
Tech
Pericles will trade alphabet to us for HBR and agriculture.
And the wonder situation
Too bad about the RPC rules, we could have wnderspammed like crazy here. Only Stonehenge and The Great wall have been built.
OK, looks a little crazy in our techpath. HBR was for instant military if need be. But we are set to begin warring anytime we want. But why rush! Let Pericles build some more wonders in Athens.
For now the French will expand in peace, at least until CoL and caste system for a proper Se game. We do have decisions to make
1) I only recently built our second worker. Damn I am bad at that, we need more.
2) Where to settle next?? I was planning to the south to claim furs/deer/fish but that misses the iron. I guess the river is the best, just forget the fish.
3) Now I think we REX while starting the SE from Paris. After a fe wmore cities and cheap courthouses we can start expanding north.
4) We have closed borders wtill, and plan to keep it that way.
5) Do we adopt Judaism?
6) Techpath: mysticism/meditation/priesthood/CoL but I am not sure how much I can get from trades.
7) Finally, do I pull off the HBR for alphabet trade with Pericles? He does NOT have horses, but Sury does and Pericles could trade it off.
Lot's to do yet.
"The French people are purplexed by their leader's decision making."
Hilarious typo considering the color of your civ.
(It's perplexed, for the record.)
I would vote for getting the horse / wine city along the river built next and preparing for war against Athens. Yeah, he could keep building shiny wonders for you, but with your city so close, you run a risk of it flipping (unless you get some cultural buildings in there quick-like). Besides... wouldn't Napoleon want it NOW as opposed to later?
My $.02.
Hilarious typo considering the color of your civ.
(It's perplexed, for the record.)I would vote for getting the horse / wine city along the river built next and preparing for war against Athens. Yeah, he could keep building shiny wonders for you, but with your city so close, you run a risk of it flipping (unless you get some cultural buildings in there quick-like). Besides... wouldn't Napoleon want it NOW as opposed to later?
My $.02.
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
Take Pericles now - your land is pretty desolate if you ask me. I'd be wanting some of his.
Oh It's a crap city. and probably always will be. But it is placed well for strategic purposes. One tile north would be a better city, but it would be in constant danger of flipping. That tile is already 26% Greek. It is a temporary choke point for stopping Perky from rexing.
However Mad needs to get his army on the move. Eventually Athens will grab the iron. Stonehenge is now over 1000 year old. That means it produces 16
per turn. Athens probably has a library and a monument (though it won't double since it is from a wonder) add in the palace and creatives 2 and soon Mad might lose access to iron unless he wants to plant a city down near the other iron. If Perky has any metals at all then chariots are a waste of hammers. His UU will devour them. Connect the iron and start massing swords with some axes. Then a mob O HA's. Try and trade something to an AI for math. then head for construction. You will need cats with his cultural defenses. Use your chariots in Chehalis to fog bust and finish exploting to the east. maybe ther is a juicy hut down there or some nice city sites.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
YEs I agree Athens needs to be subdues fairly soon. I like the idea of HBR for potentially Math, then tech Construction and go after Pericles. We need to be fairly methodical, Napoleon is Organized after all.
I alos think a good strong production base, with one stable city, one for cats, one for melee units and continue spitting them out. According to the BUG monitor for the leaders France is tops in Power amongst the three. Also I think HAs are essential here as they are the best counter to the Greek UU.
By the way, Orleans is a great city to block off Perciles and we lucked out with teh iron. It's also not as bad as everyone thinks, a decent fishing village, adequate production, and 2 farmable floodplains.
I alos think a good strong production base, with one stable city, one for cats, one for melee units and continue spitting them out. According to the BUG monitor for the leaders France is tops in Power amongst the three. Also I think HAs are essential here as they are the best counter to the Greek UU.
By the way, Orleans is a great city to block off Perciles and we lucked out with teh iron. It's also not as bad as everyone thinks, a decent fishing village, adequate production, and 2 farmable floodplains.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Napoleon and the Arrogant French: Part III
Napoleon starts by making an fortuitous trade.
Monuments for happiness and an open path the construction which we tech next. All at the cost of a useless tech to Pericles.
The French techpath: Construction/currency/CoL and start CS. Slow but our leader is unconcerned. Napoleon plans to repay the Greek's generosity with cold hard steel!
The French decide to send the settler south to assure access to iron and fur
Once the iron is hooked up, the French begin spamming swordsmen/catapults/HAs and loading them up in that one choke point city of Orleans.
Meanwhile, another city is settled.
Tech is mostly accomplished through scientists with the first GS
Builds an academy in Paris. As we build more and more troops the slider decreases all the way to 20%.
And very soon
The SoZ was built in Athens. Napoleon definitely needs a fast strike at that city.
Napoleon waits until Currency is teched
And FINALLY unleashes the French army in a brutal assault.
We utilized catapults to reduce culture in each city we took early on, preferring to keep those well promoted troops being a charismatic leader.
A large part of the Greek army fell in Athens.
The Phalynx is pretty useless to Pericles since we are bringing along HAs. So far that is 2 wonders we have claimed, many more to come.
Sparta, the shrined Judaist holy city falls next.
The French people greatly appreciate the added gold.
We meet another leader.
Not the easiest to deal with although I believe he has no wonders yet.
The Greek clearance continues
And we make a decent trade with Sury.
We meet anothger leader who HAS built the Hindu Holy City.
The final Greek city in the north has been cleared.
Remember we cannot raze any cities.
Pericles final two cities are to the east, past the floodplains/horse area. So we
Not too bad.
We whipped a few courthouses and got the next GS
I saved here looking for some advice.
Cities
Tech
The new French lands
Note there are alot of already established cottages there. The question is do we keep them or pillage???? To be honest, I see no other use for those lands yet.
And the next target.
Looks to be Sury, which we have to find!
So a few questions.
1) What to do with the GS. Settle in Paris, Bulb Phil, or start a GA to quick build markets/courthouses and adjust civics.
2) Do we keep the AI make cottages.
3) Any suggestions where to find Sury.
Napoleon starts by making an fortuitous trade.
Monuments for happiness and an open path the construction which we tech next. All at the cost of a useless tech to Pericles.
The French techpath: Construction/currency/CoL and start CS. Slow but our leader is unconcerned. Napoleon plans to repay the Greek's generosity with cold hard steel!
The French decide to send the settler south to assure access to iron and fur
Once the iron is hooked up, the French begin spamming swordsmen/catapults/HAs and loading them up in that one choke point city of Orleans.
Meanwhile, another city is settled.
Tech is mostly accomplished through scientists with the first GS
Builds an academy in Paris. As we build more and more troops the slider decreases all the way to 20%.
And very soon
The SoZ was built in Athens. Napoleon definitely needs a fast strike at that city.
Napoleon waits until Currency is teched
And FINALLY unleashes the French army in a brutal assault.
We utilized catapults to reduce culture in each city we took early on, preferring to keep those well promoted troops being a charismatic leader.
A large part of the Greek army fell in Athens.
The Phalynx is pretty useless to Pericles since we are bringing along HAs. So far that is 2 wonders we have claimed, many more to come.
Sparta, the shrined Judaist holy city falls next.
The French people greatly appreciate the added gold.
We meet another leader.
Not the easiest to deal with although I believe he has no wonders yet.
The Greek clearance continues
And we make a decent trade with Sury.
We meet anothger leader who HAS built the Hindu Holy City.
The final Greek city in the north has been cleared.
Remember we cannot raze any cities.
Pericles final two cities are to the east, past the floodplains/horse area. So we
Not too bad.
We whipped a few courthouses and got the next GS
I saved here looking for some advice.
Cities
Tech
The new French lands
Note there are alot of already established cottages there. The question is do we keep them or pillage???? To be honest, I see no other use for those lands yet.
And the next target.
Looks to be Sury, which we have to find!
So a few questions.
1) What to do with the GS. Settle in Paris, Bulb Phil, or start a GA to quick build markets/courthouses and adjust civics.
2) Do we keep the AI make cottages.
3) Any suggestions where to find Sury.
Be careful of being too aggressive. Not because of overexpansion (although no razing of cities make that a potential problem), but because you need the AI to build every single wonder in the game, and then to take them in war, so it'd be better to gain more than one or two with each war fought.
With the scientist I'd probably bulp philosophy, but a GA might be good (can't check the save to see how much it'd actually help you right now).
And definitely keep the cottages. One of the major problem with your rules is the inability to farm without fresh water (and chaining seems hard.... actually impossible? from the screenshot)
Right now I think it's a very good thing you only ruled out building them yourselves. That land of Pericles would suck otherwise at this point in time, I'm afraid...
With the scientist I'd probably bulp philosophy, but a GA might be good (can't check the save to see how much it'd actually help you right now).
And definitely keep the cottages. One of the major problem with your rules is the inability to farm without fresh water (and chaining seems hard.... actually impossible? from the screenshot)
Right now I think it's a very good thing you only ruled out building them yourselves. That land of Pericles would suck otherwise at this point in time, I'm afraid...
I say settle the GS, those beakers are nothing to laugh at (especially this early). Get a little bit of infrastructure up, and pick your next target.
As far as the cottages go... To me, it seems the rules state that you hate cottages... so it is strange that you would leave them up... BUT, you just cant build them. If we decide that you CAN keep them, I would say keep them, unless you see a stronger use of the land. You may need some cottages if this game lasts a long time.
As far as the cottages go... To me, it seems the rules state that you hate cottages... so it is strange that you would leave them up... BUT, you just cant build them. If we decide that you CAN keep them, I would say keep them, unless you see a stronger use of the land. You may need some cottages if this game lasts a long time.
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