Role Play Challenge: The Return of the Russian Spy

[madscientist]

Return of the Russian Spy: Part VI

Well, is there too much of a good thing in this game!!!???

Espionage has been beyong my expectations. In fact, techs to steal have been drying up and we are no longer really running an espionage game, we are running a GOLD game!!!! At least at the moment!

First, what have we actually stolen this segment

Physics-Zara
Chemistry-KK
Economics-KK
Corporation-Zara
Communism-Zara
Rifling-Washington
Biology-Zara

And frankly threse dogs are teching like Toku and Monty involved in a non-stop war!

WE started by noticing SOMEONE was actually heading down the rifling beeline!

GW was delighted to get Democracy!

And pretty soon was sprung up once again

Isabella managed to fight them off and stay OUT of vassaling to anyone!.

After economics were revolted to free market

We lost about 100 ep/turn because of losing the walls, but we stole corporation soon and were where we started! Not that bad of a loss.

And here we noticed old GW in fact got rifling

So we directed all eps towards him and in maybe 10 turns we had access to rifles!

We also stole communism from Zara and revolted to state property figuring we could us ethe production boost later. But will the game go that far????

At this point the only tech we did not have was military Science and I did not want to mess arround stealing from Gilgamesh and ruin our diplomatic situation there, soooo

Followed by

We played a little more, stealing biology off of Zara who's techpace really hit a wall then (I have enough eps top steal medicine which is what he's teching next). Since noone had any techs we did not, I dropped the ep slider to 0% and basically got 100% gold off of commerce. This allowed me to upgrade almost everything we have to rifles/cossacks!

This is where I saved and things may be getting interesting.

KK and Zara both heading towards culture wins. I really cannot get a space race win ahead of them if I cannot steal the needed techs! And before anyone sayd to just sabotage them, that only goes so far in a culture race, review Mao's game and the problems I had with stopping Willem down that road.

However, KK has "Enough on his hands" so he is preparing for war, likely against Issabella.

TEchs

And espionage

So here we are waiting to steal Medicine, and then after that who knows. But seams to me the road towards a space win is narrowing.

So I think peter has to get the Russian army going and perhaps let his Cossacks run amock! Sure I wanted to leverage all the EE I can, but that well has dried up, for now.

 

[assass1n]

You still can for city revolts

 

[UWHabs]

Cossacks and spies war? Unfortunately against Rifles you'll probably need some siege, but I think in war, you should force yourself to use espionage as much as you can by taking down walls.

 

[Loki Strikes]

Well Mad judging by your situation I would support workshopping everywhere now because you are still getting insane EPs without the slider and can afford a dip in commerce. I would then use cossack + spy spam and take over the world

 

[cripp7]

I think you have the EE down now, compared to the first 2. Using both the science & esp sliders in a 'normal' game you could easily tech to a space win, just stealing backfill and big ticket items you don't want to trade for. Way to go!!

 

[bestje]

try some espionage warfare with no siege!

 

[cripp7]

try some espionage warfare with no siege!

Hitting a large city with multiple health/happiness missions can bring a city down hard.

 

[Matthew5117]

Hey, Mad:

Maybe try sabotaging every building in each capital, and hit them with the health/happiness missions. That would devastate everyone! (except you of course)

 

[bestje]

Hitting a large city with multiple health/happiness missions can bring a city down hard.

I was just meaning causing revolts to remove defence before he attacks but crippling every other empire using his spies sounds hilarious it would certainly be an interesting finish to the espionage RPC

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Why no Mercantilism, it would give a free spy specialist in every city, freeing up citizens for other work, or is your Trade income too high.

On space ship parts, you sabotage once they are BUILT not during process of building. Obviously the best ones to sabotage are the most expensive.

Ever thought of gifting a small junk city, close to capital to Zara? it would help offset the espionage points, and make destroying space ship parts cheaper and easier.

 

[madscientist]

Alot of interesting proposals on how to proceed here with the EE. At this point, let's suffice to say that the EE has accomplished it's mission in the ability to stay ay tech parity or superiority.

I think the next issue is to use it in warfare: So my thinking is as follows

1) Keep ep's freely coming from specialists and buildings.
2) Keep the slider at 100% gold to continue upgrading all.
3) I will do a test to see if it's feasible to swap to US due to happiness issues (and Gilgamesh's diplo points).
4) Between the gold slider, draft in GT city (we draft 1 rifle every 5-6 turns), and US we can build an overwhelming army to attack towards the west.
5) Get a massive force of spies and use them to bring city culture to it's knees. This means redirecting eps towards Isabella or Kublai.

In a nutshell, we are using the gold slider to fund an entire army, whether outright purchase or upgrade.

At the same time we continue to steal/trade our way to tech parity with Zara and Gilgamesh.

About culture, I like the idea of completely crippling the last city by continual city revolt although the number of spies and diplo penalty will be massive.

Victory conditions??? Let's see what the situation is after we take on the western threat.

Looking for some more feedback on this thinking. I have never played an espionage game this way before (I have done games using the Settled Great Spy though) and find a surpising number of options here. Leveraging a 100% gold slider for warfare after running the EE so well was rather unforseen.

 

[assass1n]

Don't switch to Merc it removes TR's to enemy cities you want to steal techs from and I suggest going for the person who has the holy shrine and that religion which is adopted by the best techer

 

[PaulisKhan]

if you're concerned about AI's running away with a cultural victory, how about consider a stack of cossaks+spies on a one way mission deep into enemy territory to raze their most important cultural city?

I think there's some RPC value there.

This way you get to stay out of a protracted war for territory which might be better suited for a conquest RPC, you also get a chance to use your spies in their military capacity to bring down cultural defenses for the turn your cossacks attack.
This way you've used your UU and your RPC focus in a combined strike =)

Given the nature of the RPC challenge/Civ you've chosen I also think it wold be fun to work towards operating under police state + communism, pre-workshop your cottages (so that you can swap them over to workshops in a rush at the end) and take a space win utilising your UB.

Everyone hates each other too much for a UN win to be much of a problem I think.
You have means of dealing with civs aiming for culture wins by using spies and your UU.
Your UB is space oriented.

It almost writes itself >.>

-edit- I just wanted to add that I do love how you're willing to stick to a theme, rather than just going with the optimal method which, let's face it, can get rather boring. Keep up the good work =)

 

[CreeDakota]

I think you should stick with the Sneakiness factor. It seems obvious that you could transform to a war footing, build an army, and conquer Khan and Issabella and get a Domination victory.

I would be much more entertained, and I think the challange would be much greater, if you keep up the spy angle and try to keep a lid on the others through ALOT of sabotage missions while going for UN or Space. Using spies to help you with diplomacy by adjusting enemy civics could be interesting.

If you think you couldnt hold back both Zara and Kubla from cultural, maybe a sneak attack raze pillage war through Mongolia whil using espinoage to keep Zara off track.

 

[Der Graf]

The longer I read this, the more I believe I've underestimated the power of an EE a lot
I usually defend against espionage by the AI, sometimes taking down city culture, but that's it.

4) Between the gold slider, draft in GT city (we draft 1 rifle every 5-6 turns), and US we can build an overwhelming army to attack towards the west.

Looking for some more feedback on this thinking.

The Russians swarm towards the west with an overwhelming army ?
Sounds kind of historical familiar to me

 

[BakingTheArt]

The Russians swarm towards the west with an overwhelming army ?
Sounds kind of historical familiar to me

Nothing really important, but I read that as "swam".

 

[madscientist]

Return of the Russian Spy: Part VII

After considering the RPC and what we have, plus the quick teching of a few Ais I decided to stick with the espionage angle and try for a space race win. We entered a war for a specific goal (which we failed at) but we are looking at space while using espionage to beat down the Ais culture. We shall see how it ends!

We start by changing civics to better leverage the extra gold we have

ONE city turned unhappy, but we rushed a forge to handle that!

We started by stealing

Steam Power-KK
Medicine-Zara
Steel-KK

Which allowed us to redirect eps

Note the techs that Zara and Kublai are researching. Zara is a tech dog and we start ignoring him, looking at Kublai AND Gilgamesh.

We did not end up stealing electricity but used the eps later to steal
Radio. Mostly because I decided to shake things up

And very soon Isabella was dogpiled

And I finally decided to utilize our Cossacks!

Sorry Isabella but you have one of two things we do NOT have. Oil you have, and we DO NOT have coal. yes folks, we are going to space without oil or coal, thus no railroads!

We stormed across the southern Spanish desert lands capturing numerous cities, but coming JUST short of Barcelona before Isabella capitulated to Kublai! We gifted back a city or 2 then just kept the armies in those two captured cities.

After stealing

Combustion-KK
Radio-Gilgamesh
Assembly Line-KK

We readjusted the slider to 1000% gold again as there is nothing interesting to steal yet as KK is researching Fascism and Gilgamesh in still teching Combustion.

We saved here looking to get alot of gold to upgrade everything and start drafting LOT's of military! We also now have a Heroic Epic city with 1 settled GG for 2 promotion units. I see LOT's of infantry coming out soon.

Our cities

Espionage

When we have the espionage slider up we are generating about 2000+ eps/turn! Think I could have been getting 2000+ beakers with that few cities in a traditional game???

Also we got about 5 or 6 GSpies which we used all for Scotland yards!

But the best yet is

Tada!!!! We are now the tech leader! Considering the LAST tech we researched "Honestly" was Code of Laws I say the EE is doing quite well!

So onwards to space. I plan to buy/upgrade and get overwhelming power numbers to deter attack. Meanwhile it's time to build/rush the production buildings. The only drawback I see is the lack of coal for power. THAT may be a very big problem, but let's see what we can do!

 

[PaulisKhan]

ouch, no coal will indeed hurt.

I've been impressed with your play so far. Stealing techs to use as a bribe for one AI to dec war on another AI is so wonderfully in keeping with the theme.

Keep it up =)

 

[Joshua368]

No coal sucks, no railroads, no coal plants, weak ironworks. Certainly recommend finding some weak civ to conquer/vassalize and get some. You can't even found a corp for it like oil or aluminum.

 

[Der Graf]

We readjusted the slider to 1000% gold again as there is nothing interesting to steal yet....

That's kind of...impressive. I don't have that setting in my game

Combustion-KK
Radio-Gilgamesh
Assembly Line-KK
Combustion.

Tada!!!! We are now the tech leader! Considering the LAST tech we researched "Honestly" was Code of Laws I say the EE is doing quite well!

And that's nice understatement, Mad
Your up to 33 stolen techs, if I didn't miss any.


ontopic coal: what about simply trading coal ?
You've sucked up like a Ferengi to most AIs the whole game - there must be someone with coal who really loves you